Layoffs in I.S. - Page 8 - Brown Cafe

upscorpis · 10-05-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Didn't they tell you that any reductions would be done through attrition??

... I wish IS would work on delivering more as well.

P-Man

There has been no such proclamation to me about attrition and I'm one of those that were allowed to have a copy of the announcement. As for delivering more, CIM is IS to the business so be careful with that statement.

I want to retire a UPSer but I'm a little doubtful that's the way it's going to pan out. These types of things have a way of expanding over time. I still believe UPS wants to take care of capable people. I have little doubt about my prospects outside the company but I hope it doesn't get to that point.

pretzel_man · 10-06-2008, 06:07 AM

okay...

First, I've heard from old friends (system managers and up) that attrition will handle the work that is global sourced. By attrition, they include the release of contractors. You guys have a bunch.

As far as what I'm not getting from IS....

When I see what a release cost, and compare that to what was delivered, I'm amazed. We still have some people in the districts that can program. They make much less than IS, but can deliver things quickly.

I don't understand why you guys take so long and deliver so little?? Please explain that to me. What does an average release cost? How much do I get??

I must admit, that the quality of your systems has improved greatly over the years. However, the cost has as well.

In the field, we are asked to constantly do more with less. I would like IS to do the same.

P-Man

Motownpride · 10-06-2008, 05:59 PM

If they don't tell us they are called snakes.....if they tell us we think there are different motives.....we can not have it both ways........

I watch and I trust until proven otherwise.

It is amazing in this economy none of us have been laid off. I have friends on Wall Street and they have rec'd there walking papers. Some have been there 15 plus years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISWarrior

You confuse worry with observation. This is the first time (in my memory) that we were told point blank in a meeting about the "Global Footprint". When and how long (and will) it work is up for debate.

I do not worry, I have multiple up to date skills not just in IS, but other areas. If calamity strikes, No Problem. If it does not, No Problem.

Fact: They have told us in an imprompto meeting that UPS is expanding their global footprint.

Fact: You are not allowed to have a hard or soft copy of the announcement.

Fact: Two unit leads have already begun the process of being interviewed by IBM about what we do and how.

Conjecture: This could possibly mean people are going to be outsourced.

Paranoid Conjecture: You will loose your job and your RSUs

Evil Paranoid Conjecture: You will loose your job and your RSUs in two years when the amount UPS will get back by not giving them to you is maximized

Motownpride · 10-06-2008, 06:05 PM

Hoaxter,
In your 35 years please tell us your major contribution to the success of UPS and the success of CIM ?

We are dying to hear this !!!

Remember you should get out of it the quality and hard work you pur into it.

I don't know why there is a CIM anymore.....hopefully this gets straightened out in 2009

CIM creates the date, mktg prioritizes the list and CIM gets the requirements wrong and then blames everyone but themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

I'll tell you what we are not getting!

You are not giving us the functionality on the release date that we need but were not aware of until after it is launched!

When you gonna fix that?

Hoaxster · 10-06-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motownpride

It is amazing in this economy none of us have been laid off. I have friends on Wall Street and they have rec'd there walking papers. Some have been there 15 plus years.

I agree, we are still strong and UPS is doing this as well as can be expected. I refer to one of my previous posts on this thread back on July 27th.

Hoaxster · 10-06-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motownpride

Hoaxter,
In your 35 years please tell us your major contribution to the success of UPS and the success of CIM ?

We are dying to hear this !!!

Remember you should get out of it the quality and hard work you pur into it.

I don't know why there is a CIM anymore.....hopefully this gets straightened out in 2009

CIM creates the date, mktg prioritizes the list and CIM gets the requirements wrong and then blames everyone but themselves.

Perhaps you did not appreciate my apparent lame attempt at humor. Let me try again with no subtlety:

IS is not delivering what us goofballs on the business side never asked for until after the release and then we realize it.

Is that better?

Jeez

Hoaxster · 10-06-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motownpride

Hoaxter,
In your 35 years please tell us your major contribution to the success of UPS and the success of CIM ?

We are dying to hear this !!!

#10 - I carried CIO's bags on 2 trips to Maryland

#9 - I have pix of DS in fishnet tights

#8 - I provided pix of CIM Portfolio manager with a skirt and lipstick on (Obama was right...still a pig).

#7 - Drank two pitchers of Ruffian Porter at Mountain valley Brew Pub in Suffern

#6 - Started a new fashion craze at UPS - Braces (hey it's going to take hold)

#5 - Wore 1 tennis shoe in sympathy with Stu having foot surgery

#4 - Health tip to other UPSers - Wear yellow shirts to check and make sure urine is the right shade. Gotta stay hydrated

#3 - Ate Shrimphead for Shrimphead with Mark H

#2 - Fashion tip - wear dark pants and when you pee on yourself, nobody knows

and

#1 - Ate the whole rib at El Cids

UPSIUFan · 10-07-2008, 05:52 AM

>#1 - Ate the whole rib at El Cids

Gonna call BS on that one. That's not human.

Hoaxster · 10-07-2008, 11:27 AM

Obviously my lame attempt at humor was not recognized as such by you.
This is a much more obvious rendering of what I meant to say.

"Why can't you deliver what we never asked for and did not realize we needed until after the application is released?"
.
.

Sorry if I got your dandruff up.

(note: dandruff was another attempt at humor - real word is dander)

The Hoaxster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motownpride

Hoaxter,
In your 35 years please tell us your major contribution to the success of UPS and the success of CIM ?

We are dying to hear this !!!

Remember you should get out of it the quality and hard work you pur into it.

I don't know why there is a CIM anymore.....hopefully this gets straightened out in 2009

CIM creates the date, mktg prioritizes the list and CIM gets the requirements wrong and then blames everyone but themselves.

Hoaxster · 10-07-2008, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPSIUFan

>#1 - Ate the whole rib at El Cids

Gonna call BS on that one. That's not human.

Yea...you got me on that one. Mark H did though...unbelieveable!

10-07-2008, 03:39 PM

Hoaxster---love your style, and can I get a copy of that DS in tights picture???

Hoaxster · 10-07-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramsey500

Hoaxster---love your style, and can I get a copy of that DS in tights picture???

Keeping that one close to my chest...that's a major "Ace in the Hole".

10-07-2008, 04:21 PM

ok, you drive a hard bargain...how bout a copy of this picture then?

#8 - I provided pix of CIM Portfolio manager with a skirt and lipstick on (Obama was right...still a pig).

UPSOVERSIZE · 10-07-2008, 05:13 PM

Hoaxter,
we can make some $$ for united way if you let us bid on that picture of ds in tights.

I think we could have some fun and raise some cash.....i hope he would be a good sport with this. He usually is.

Hoaxster · 10-07-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPSOVERSIZE

Hoaxter,
we can make some $$ for united way if you let us bid on that picture of ds in tights.

I think we could have some fun and raise some cash.....i hope he would be a good sport with this. He usually is.

I'm tempted...he is a good sport!

I'm going to have to wait until I turn 55 (October 2009). Need to keep that card in the hold...wouldn't be prudent to turn it up now.

UPSIUFan · 10-07-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Yea...you got me on that one. Mark H did though...unbelieveable!

Don't you get a shirt or something if you finish a steak there?

Hoaxster · 10-07-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPSIUFan

Don't you get a shirt or something if you finish a steak there?

Never heard of that but a wheelbarrow might be appropriate.
Have not been there since 2002. Huge portions, decent food, doggie bag standard...great paella.

UPSOVERSIZE · 10-07-2008, 06:22 PM

THE OVERSIZE MAN LOVES THE PRIME RIB THERE !!!!!

peacock71 · 10-08-2008, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Perhaps you did not appreciate my apparent lame attempt at humor. Let me try again with no subtlety:

IS is not delivering what us goofballs on the business side never asked for until after the release and then we realize it.

Is that better?

Jeez

Is the llike 'Be careful what you don't ask for, for you will surely not get it?'

Go UPS!
(everyone enjoying the financial panic?)
P71

rups · 10-09-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

okay...

First, I've heard from old friends (system managers and up) that attrition will handle the work that is global sourced. By attrition, they include the release of contractors. You guys have a bunch.

As far as what I'm not getting from IS....

When I see what a release cost, and compare that to what was delivered, I'm amazed. We still have some people in the districts that can program. They make much less than IS, but can deliver things quickly.

I don't understand why you guys take so long and deliver so little?? Please explain that to me. What does an average release cost? How much do I get??

I must admit, that the quality of your systems has improved greatly over the years. However, the cost has as well.

In the field, we are asked to constantly do more with less. I would like IS to do the same.

P-Man

P-Man,

You raised some good points so I will offer some observations.

Question - Why do you guys take so long and deliver so little at such a high cost?

Answer / Observation - Delivering an IT solution in UPS includes approvals by software committees, hardware committees, testing certification groups, networking testing, security testing, etc.

All these processes add amounts of time and money into the final release costs which are usually never calculated up front. It's usually unclear as to who needs to be involved for all of these internal processes and approvals.

Even purchasing a vendor-developed software package becomes a long process of Z-scores, vendors reviews, licenses agreements, RFP, RFQ, etc.

Your programmer in the District is most likely bypassing these internal processes which allows him or her to crank out software at a pace much faster then the guys in IS who are navigating the internal approvals processes.

Some of these internal processes were developed many moons ago when a software deployment involved 24 disks installed on 500 PCs requiring 50 TSG guys on a weekend to make it happen.

IS needs to revisit these outdated processes for your release costs to go down. Software is more efficient now then it was 20 years ago.

Good luck P-Man!

pretzel_man · 10-09-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rups

P-Man,

You raised some good points so I will offer some observations.

Question - Why do you guys take so long and deliver so little at such a high cost?

Answer / Observation - Delivering an IT solution in UPS includes approvals by software committees, hardware committees, testing certification groups, networking testing, security testing, etc.

All these processes add amounts of time and money into the final release costs which are usually never calculated up front. It's usually unclear as to who needs to be involved for all of these internal processes and approvals.

Even purchasing a vendor-developed software package becomes a long process of Z-scores, vendors reviews, licenses agreements, RFP, RFQ, etc.

Your programmer in the District is most likely bypassing these internal processes which allows him or her to crank out software at a pace much faster then the guys in IS who are navigating the internal approvals processes.

Some of these internal processes were developed many moons ago when a software deployment involved 24 disks installed on 500 PCs requiring 50 TSG guys on a weekend to make it happen.

IS needs to revisit these outdated processes for your release costs to go down. Software is more efficient now then it was 20 years ago.

Good luck P-Man!

RUPS:

I couldn't agree more about outdated procedures slowing down the processes.

I have other observations and questions on the process...

The IS management structure seems EXTREMELY top heavy to me. How many levels are there above the actual developer who does the work and what value do they add?

You have other processes up front that the district developer doesn't have. You spend endless hours talking about what you are going to develop and producing documents.

I was told that the effort up front saves time later. I've never seen that. What % of a development budget is for actual development? When you subtract all the documents, testing, approvals, etc, etc, I'm betting a realtively small % is actually spent writing code???

In the district, code writing is a very high percent of the overall project.

I will bet you that if we got rid of the excess layers, and non value added work we could reduce IS cost for a system by 50%.

IS has some great people working in a poor process and the districts are paying the price...

P-Man

Dfigtree · 10-10-2008, 02:14 PM

The management metrics that the teams I was fortunate to work used were ... QQCT ... Quality, Quantity, Cost and Time. When JXS was around, and to some degree FXE as well, we were asked how much and how long to produce a product of high quality. After JXS left and that little putz converted Shared Services into the Little Shop of Horrors, we were TOLD how much and how long with the predictable result of a poorly fashioned product and also resulting in JM blaming everybpody but himself. It's probably the same for all the K's and C's. I do not know. Top down fails. Bottom up succeeds.

BTW, when you say IS is top heavy are you meanin' to make a statement about management man-boo?s ?

Finally, to all of you who have bad mouthed the rows, I always liked her but what do I know?

Period. Amen.

10-10-2008, 02:29 PM

badmouthing the delicate flower?

who would dare to do that?

she will be king one day !

and I suppose you never worked for her either, have you?

Motownpride · 10-10-2008, 06:26 PM

Ramsey

She was our DBA in Morristown and we liked her. I heard from some guys in the cafeteria that you are joining us in Motown. Any truth ?

10-11-2008, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motownpride

Ramsey

She was our DBA in Morristown and we liked her. I heard from some guys in the cafeteria that you are joining us in Motown. Any truth ?

not that I am aware of----but I would welcome the change!