UPS/Teamster negotiations moving fast - Brown Cafe

08-31-2007, 03:14 PM

http://www.teamster.org/divisions/pa...ews_070831.pdf

krash · 08-31-2007, 11:33 PM

Has anyone heard about health care? If we withdraw from CS, that would mean, I presume, that we would switch health care providers, right? Or is the plan to remain with CS for that benefit?

Pollocknbrown · 09-01-2007, 12:33 AM

Obviously im no expert, but if UPS is to withdraw from CS, and set up its own benefit fund, that would be accepted by IBT negotiating team, and eventually, those members effected by this, UPS could chose to keep the same carrier, or try to find another Health provider.

Cezanne · 09-01-2007, 03:32 AM

Krash,

I would imagine that the Health and Welfare active and retirees' would be handled through the company. In my area the current retirees under the company plan pay only 50 dollars a month for coverage, that includes yourself, wife and any dependents. With the current monetary contributions still in place there should be no reason for the company to demand concessions in that area.

I totally agree with the international's newsletter about members getting off their duffs and start getting involved and educated over this major issue. Whatever benefit package comes off the line we better start reading the fine print, "the devil is in the details". Presuming that it fall somewhere around the attempted take over in l997. The only information provided back then was very vague and appeared to be rushed. The good news is that apparently the union will have co-ownership in this trust and believe it or not that is a major selling point. If any good news that came out of this Central States underfunding it gave all of us first hand information on how pension trustees can affect your future retirement benefits.

Off my head here is a couple of items to watch out for:

a. (Social security offset) that is when a trust can reduce your monetary benefit by whatever amount you start collecting when you become eligible at age 65 or older.

b. (Age requirements for pension and Health and Welfare benefits). Currently in the Central States area a part timer under the UPS Pension Plan with thirty years in can retire as early as age 50 with full medical.

c. (Spousal reduction) From my understanding currently the Central States reduces your benefit about 500 dollars a month if you want your wife covered for 50 percent of your benefits if you kick the bucket.

Now if the withdraw liability of 6,000,000,000 dollars is fact and that I saw somewhere that UPS pays 600,000 for their participants in the Central States trust annually. Do some simple math equations and that will give Central States 10 additional years without feeling the loss of UPS funding. If the trustees can not right the ship by then with that kind of money, they got alot of explaining to do not only to the members still in the Central States trust but to the feds.

It is amazing to me how this new pension reform bill that apparently becomes active in January "08" is effecting this contract. Look for a contract settlement before the new year. (Mark my Words All you People).

derf3733 · 09-01-2007, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krash

Has anyone heard about health care? If we withdraw from CS, that would mean, I presume, that we would switch health care providers, right? Or is the plan to remain with CS for that benefit?

I'm in Central States but our building is under a UPS health care plan that is better than what you guys have now in the CS health care. I would assume UPS would move everybody to the UPS health plan

09-01-2007, 05:26 PM

The Pension Plan and the H&W Plan are two completely seperate Plans with completely seperate Trust Funds. Since they are negotiated by, and run by many of the same people, there is a lot of coordination, but they are legally seperate. The (possible) withdrawal of UPS from the Pension Plan, and the payment of $6 billion in Withdrawal Liability debt by UPS to the Pension Fund has no direct connection to the H&W Fund. If any changes are to effect UPSers' H&W coverage, they would have to be negotiated as a seperate matter just like any other contractual change. No changes to the Pension or H&W coverage will occur unless the members vote to approve them, (along with all other contractual changes,) by a majority "yes" vote on the Master Contract and the Central States Supplement.

Fullhouse · 09-02-2007, 06:52 PM

I have read somewhere that the H/W will stay with CS if UPS paid withdrawl amount. I jusy can't remeber where I read it.

mittam · 09-03-2007, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89GUY

http://www.teamster.org/divisions/pa...ews_070831.pdf

So will someone explain the slogan being used "Oct. 1 or we're done" What are they walking away and taking a strike vote if it isn't done by then? Or does it imply that they will wait till the last minute in August to try and accomplish a last minute greatest contract ever deal?

Pollocknbrown · 09-03-2007, 12:07 PM

If there is no agreement before Oct 1st, then they will go on hiatus with discussions and there will be no opportunity to finalize a deal before the august first date when the contract is up. So basically if there is no deal by Oct 1, then they wont talk till probably june or july of next year.

area43 · 09-04-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonFrum

The Pension Plan and the H&W Plan are two completely seperate Plans with completely seperate Trust Funds. Since they are negotiated by, and run by many of the same people, there is a lot of coordination, but they are legally seperate. The (possible) withdrawal of UPS from the Pension Plan, and the payment of $6 billion in Withdrawal Liability debt by UPS to the Pension Fund has no direct connection to the H&W Fund. If any changes are to effect UPSers' H&W coverage, they would have to be negotiated as a seperate matter just like any other contractual change. No changes to the Pension or H&W coverage will occur unless the members vote to approve them, (along with all other contractual changes,) by a majority "yes" vote on the Master Contract and the Central States Supplement.

That is true, Jon. Krash I might stand to be corrected but are you from Virginia. It seems I have read in the past one of your post that stated you are from here. Curious, if you don't mind me asking. Where did you take or get that pic(avatar)? If your from Va. than what happens with the insurance at CS wont have no bearing here in Va. Look at it this way. Each fund is like its own seperate company. One fund can't go to the next and ask for some cash for whatever reason. Legally its not possible. Insurance and pension is distinctively that funds babies. Joint Council 83 is responsible for us(Va.) only. The monies UPS($222.10 a wk) and other companies contributes toward our H & W insurance on our behalf goes into a bucket and then Joint 83 shops for Health ins on the open market to cover us all. The pension is totally different. Again, in Joint council 83 the contributions are $273.60 a week. If that was the case in the CS pension. Than that money would have to go into a sep or whatever after UPS pulls out. In short, CS will be responsible for your Insurance after the pull out.

Right now, I believe UPS contributes $238.00 a week towards CS pension plan per UPS ft worker. Now, there is about 35,000 to 40,000 active working UPS employees in the CS plan. That is just under a third of the presently active working members in the plan(appox. 150,000). UPSers, do you remember Ross Perot the presidential candidate back in 92. Do you remembe one of his favorite quotes," Do you HEAR THAT!!! That GIANT sucking sound". LOL. Do the math folks. 35,000 to 40,000 leaving at $238 a week. Wow!!!!!!! That little pocket change the Teamsters get(buy out) from UPS isn't going to last long. Another chunk of baby boomers retiring and the feds will be coming in. Hang on retire's. The Teamsters knew they made promises they couldn't keep. For the ones still working. A two check system, perphaps. Not if the APWA, gets behind "The PLAN" formerly know as the "Cut out the middle man" plan. As you can see alot of people pass through the BC site everyday. Members and non-members alike. Im gambling some top dogs at UPS or the APWA will see "The PLAN". Take it and run with it. sincerely a43

GuyinBrown · 09-06-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonFrum

The Pension Plan and the H&W Plan are two completely seperate Plans with completely seperate Trust Funds. Since they are negotiated by, and run by many of the same people, there is a lot of coordination, but they are legally seperate. The (possible) withdrawal of UPS from the Pension Plan, and the payment of $6 billion in Withdrawal Liability debt by UPS to the Pension Fund has no direct connection to the H&W Fund. If any changes are to effect UPSers' H&W coverage, they would have to be negotiated as a seperate matter just like any other contractual change. No changes to the Pension or H&W coverage will occur unless the members vote to approve them, (along with all other contractual changes,) by a majority "yes" vote on the Master Contract and the Central States Supplement.

I understand that it would have to be negotiated, but there is no "buyout" involved with withdrawing from the medical side of it, is there?

scratch · 09-06-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyinBrown

I understand that it would have to be negotiated, but there is no "buyout" involved with withdrawing from the medical side of it, is there?

Ihope that we can get out of the CS Health Plan. The BCBS plan I am on is a joke.

TSup · 09-09-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mittam

So will someone explain the slogan being used "Oct. 1 or we're done" What are they walking away and taking a strike vote if it isn't done by then? Or does it imply that they will wait till the last minute in August to try and accomplish a last minute greatest contract ever deal?

I would think this all has to do with the fact that the Pension Reform Act goes into place on Jan 1st 2008. If the Teamsters can have an agreement by Oct 1st 2007, this would give them the time to get it put together and voted on by the members by Dec 31st. If they get the big $$$ from UPS in this agreement(the withdrawal $$$) by Jan 1st they may not fall into the "critical" or "endangered" status they would right now. There are many government rules that must be followed beginning Jan 1st 2008 if the fund falls into one of those catagories. "critial" is 65% funded, and "endangered" is 80%.

If you want a good read(but long) check this out.....
http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/x-38-06.pdf

rapidrandall · 09-09-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSup

I would think this all has to do with the fact that the Pension Reform Act goes into place on Jan 1st 2008. If the Teamsters can have an agreement by Oct 1st 2007, this would give them the time to get it put together and voted on by the members by Dec 31st. If they get the big $$$ from UPS in this agreement(the withdrawal $$$) by Jan 1st they may not fall into the "critical" or "endangered" status they would right now. There are many government rules that must be followed beginning Jan 1st 2008 if the fund falls into one of those catagories. "critial" is 65% funded, and "endangered" is 80%.

If you want a good read(but long) check this out.....
http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/x-38-06.pdf

Your logic is correct. See the link for verification.
http://www.teamster.org/07news/hn_070907_5.asp

18wheelbrownie · 09-10-2007, 04:14 PM

It is important to note that while the Central States Fund
has been enjoying better than average earnings for the past sev-
eral years, it is still burdened by the investment losses suffered
when the stock market collapsed in 2000-2002. The Fund has
also recently made certain changes relating to the way it meas-
ures its “funding percentage” as mentioned above. As a result,
and despite its more recent investment successes, the Fund’s cur-
rent funding ratio is actually lower than it was at the start of this
year. That is why a large cash payment in advance by UPS would
be beneficial to the overall health of the fund.

this is a quote by hoffa,check out what he is saying,they know the funding % is much lower now than at the beginning of the year! remember the 2006 pension report will be out the 4th quarter of this year and available to its members then, but what you don't know is they knew this for 8 months!

their bean counters put it to together , give it to the trustees,than tell us later after they sell us the best dammed contract ever!

wake up , i think i hear the used car salesman coming to sell you a contract from central states and your local's!

ziffle · 09-11-2007, 02:23 PM

What is given in other states is quite generous compared to retiree health care in the Oregon district. The last I heard was that our UPS teamster retirees had to pay over $400 per month for coverage for two.

wildgoose · 09-12-2007, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziffle

What is given in other states is quite generous compared to retiree health care in the Oregon district. The last I heard was that our UPS teamster retirees had to pay over $400 per month for coverage for two.

Thats not bad for $200 per person ! Medicare is $169 + supplement of $90 and thats no dental and you must be 65 ! Medicare ain`t free either .

sawdusttv · 09-12-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildgoose

Thats not bad for $200 per person ! Medicare is $169 + supplement of $90 and thats no dental and you must be 65 ! Medicare ain`t free either .

If I'm not mistaken, the good people out in Oregon get a much larger pension check than we do here in the CS area. So that makes a big difference also.