UPS info for UPSers

gandydancer · 10-28-2007, 06:24 AM

From the "Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT" thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braveheart

Great info on the 22.3 workers! We are forced to work overtime but our 22.3 workers are mandated off in 8 or you are written up!!!How is that fair??

They haven't tried that here, at least not with me, but I've been wondering if that particular can of worms would eventually hit the fan. Management has on a couple separate occasions tried cutting me out NEAR the end of Night Hub, say 3am -- I work Twilight and Night, loading on the latter -- but the issue was then whether they could cut me out and have my work finished by a less senior employee who had ALSO made his guarantee, and I prevailed without going to panel, arguing that the essence of seniority is that the company cannot choose the less expensive employee, and that there was no contractual language making my being on overtime an exception to this. But apparently things have gone differently in Baraveheart's division, and I could see that I'd have to had to make a more difficult argument if they'd cut me out at 2am, when I'd made eight hours and the Night Hub parttimers hadn't made their 3.5. I'd have to argue the fungibility of the work, and that any hours they got past their guarantee should have gone to the more senior employee, and...well, it would have been less open and shut.

Anyway, if the new contract passes my cost to the company on overtime will be four times or so that of a new hire doing the same work, so you don't have to be able to read tea leaves to know UPS is going to be more agressive about this.

So, does anybody (Braveheart? You're a steward, right?) know of any grievance decisions pertinent to this issue?

Secondly, there's language in the new contract about UPS being credited for train-to-feeder volume transfers with a reduction in their obligation to create 22.3 jobs. Since they have no obligation to create any new 22.3's it seems they will be able to delete existing 22.3's, and there is nothing I see to say those jobs must be vacant ones. So what happens if they create a new feeder job in Pennsylvania and line out mine in California? Am I laid off? (Well, I'm a '98 -- MAYBE they have to start with the least senior 22.3 nationally -- but apply the question to him).

10-28-2007, 10:56 AM

It says very clearly that the 22.3 jobs that were already created are protected.

gandydancer · 10-29-2007, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous user3

It says very clearly that the 22.3 jobs that were already created are protected.

I can read. If it were clear to me I wouldn't have these questions. What language are you relying upon?

ohiobrownman19 · 10-29-2007, 05:51 AM

I talked to my union leader about this subject and he said that they have not created all the 22.3 jobs that they were required to under the last 2 contracts yet so they still have to finish creating those but instead of having to make them 22.3 they could make a new feeder job instead. But that does not affect the 22.3 jobs that are already created. They must send a list in of all the 22.3 jobs created and where they are located and those jobs cannot be removed. Only thing that he said they can do is they can move air routes from one building to another which may screw someone out of part of their job but they woul dneed to find something else for them to do.

Keepingthemhonest · 10-29-2007, 06:52 AM

they are laying off our 22.3's...making them go back to driving or bump part-timers on different shifts to work a split shift...it's a load of crap

gandydancer · 10-08-2008, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandydancer

I can read. If it were clear to me I wouldn't have these questions. What language are you relying upon?

Answer to self: Article 22, Section 3, last paragraph: "The number of full-time jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 of the 1997-2002 and 2002-2008 Agreements shall not be reduced. ...the Employer shall provide...a report detailing and identifying the full-time jobs which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph."

I'mTheMan · 10-08-2008, 01:28 PM

Here is Seattle, the 31 22.3 jobs at Boeing Field has ended a month ago and closed the night sort till peak in late November. UPS is uncertain if wanted 22.3 jobs back or not. However, it's union decision from what I heard. Putting all 31 22.3 jobs back to part time at the hubs for good. Right now UPS is refusing to provide the lists to UPS to create 22.3 jobs but UPS is not going to do that. Instead they're getting rid of all 22.3 jobs in Seattle and Redmond and switching everyone back to part time for good. Union is doing nothing to protect those jobs now. UPS only wanted to keep full timers is package cars and Feeder drivers. It's been more than 2 months for me have not been getting the jobs back but instead keeping me back in part time like prison in the hubs. Guess thats the way is going to be for a very long time.

big_arrow_up · 10-08-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'mTheMan

Here is Seattle, the 31 22.3 jobs at Boeing Field has ended a month ago and closed the night sort till peak in late November. UPS is uncertain if wanted 22.3 jobs back or not. However, it's union decision from what I heard. Putting all 31 22.3 jobs back to part time at the hubs for good. Right now UPS is refusing to provide the lists to UPS to create 22.3 jobs but UPS is not going to do that. Instead they're getting rid of all 22.3 jobs in Seattle and Redmond and switching everyone back to part time for good. Union is doing nothing to protect those jobs now. UPS only wanted to keep full timers is package cars and Feeder drivers. It's been more than 2 months for me have not been getting the jobs back but instead keeping me back in part time like prison in the hubs. Guess thats the way is going to be for a very long time.

If the union doesn't show some clout on this issue it will be a huge win for UPS and it will be nearly impossible to fight this in the future.

I'mTheMan · 10-08-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

If the union doesn't show some clout on this issue it will be a huge win for UPS and it will be nearly impossible to fight this in the future.

I agree with you. I have a strong feeling that UPS is going to win this thing and we may never win it back in future's time.

IDoLessWorkThanMost · 10-09-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'mTheMan

I agree with you. I have a strong feeling that UPS is going to win this thing and we may never win it back in future's time.

Agreed.

Which would be awful for some workers and families, but a shining star for others.

I was going to go back and finish my BS anyways, and always kicked myself for going full-time and losing a decent part-time job that paid OK and allowed me to live my life.

You have to look on the bright side sometimes if possible

This isn't 96' and the Ron Carey days. Part-time America will work with this fading economy and as others have said, well, the union simply will eat their own to adapt.

LIfe is all about being able to adapt to new ideas and unknowns...it's time to face reality!

Baba gounj · 10-09-2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

Agreed.

Which would be awful for some workers and families, but a shining star for others.

I was going to go back and finish my BS anyways, and always kicked myself for going full-time and losing a decent part-time job that paid OK and allowed me to live my life.

You have to look on the bright side sometimes if possible

This isn't 96' and the Ron Carey days. Part-time America will work with this fading economy and as others have said, well, the union simply will eat their own to adapt.

LIfe is all about being able to adapt to new ideas and unknowns...it's time to face reality!

I wonder if they'll demote me back to carwash.

gandydancer · 10-09-2008, 06:32 AM

I read on TDU's site that "The company eliminated nearly 40 Article 22.3 full-time jobs in Seattle Local 174 in the Boeing Field, Redmond and Seattle buildings. Six more full-time Article 22.3 positions have been eliminated in Spokane." Also "The company chair of the Nor Cal UPS Grievance Panel told Teamster local officials at panel hearings that UPS would not be filling vacant Article 22.3 positions in Northern California locals and that the company would not fill future Article 22.3 positions in Nor Cal when they become vacant." The relevant contract language reads: "The number of full-time jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 of the 1997-2002 and 2002-2008 Agreements shall not be reduced. ...the Employer shall provide...a report detailing and identifying the full-time jobs which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph." Sounds clear enough. If the union takes it to arb I don't see how they can lose, unless they want to.

brownrodster · 10-09-2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandydancer

"The number of full-time jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 of the 1997-2002 and 2002-2008 Agreements shall not be reduced. ...

All that refers to is the number. If they create a 22.3 job at worldport and delete a 22.3 job at boeing field then the number has not been rduced. Also, people have stated that new feeder jobs fulfill this requirement per some new language in the contract (hearsay, not sure if this is true). So if they create a new feeder run somewhere and delete a 22.3 job somewhere then maybe that works in UPS's favor too... UPS probably have an army of lawyers working overtime trying to figure out ways to sidestep the contract.

gandydancer · 10-09-2008, 07:03 AM

You missed the more relevant part:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandydancer

"...the Employer shall provide...a report detailing and identifying THE full-time JOBS which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph."

...there's no "...number of..." in that sentence. It's the actual jobs on the list that have to be maintained, not merely the number. Repeating what I've just written on another thread on this point (sorry, don't mean to spam)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandydancer

... There was a similar requirement to provide a list under the last contract, and I saw a portion of that list about a year ago, as provided by the National to my Local. My job has a number, my name, a location, and two parts, "CAPTURE" and "HUB/SORT". I can't believe that an arb will buy the notion that deleting my job and adding another somewhere else "maintains" the same job.

MR_Vengeance · 10-09-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'mTheMan

I agree with you. I have a strong feeling that UPS is going to win this thing and we may never win it back in future's time.

did UPS ever offered you another fulltime job like driving or doing two split shift?

I'mTheMan · 10-10-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_Vengeance

did UPS ever offered you another fulltime job like driving or doing two split shift?

No. It was never offered in two split shift or anything. Right now they're hiring new part timers to prevent double shifting and everything. So It's a lot of upsetting going on right now. I already asked the union about this but they're doing nothing about it. Guess we're screwed.

RedThunder · 10-21-2008, 11:56 AM

UPS layed me off from my 22.3 position 10-13-08. Twenty year driver who bid 22.3 two years ago(although it took them 8 months to put me on the job). UPS says i can bump a preloader and come back to work local sort if i want but i'm not guaranteed 8 hours anymore. Interested to see what happens and what my options are. Definately not going back to part time.

705red · 10-21-2008, 12:51 PM

How did you get laid off? Lays offs go by company seniority in a classification, sounds like you would be senior to alot of others.

RedThunder · 10-21-2008, 01:50 PM

Small rural center. 20 package runs, 4 feeder runs. I'm the only 22.3 there.

IDoLessWorkThanMost · 10-21-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 705red

How did you get laid off? Lays offs go by company seniority in a classification, sounds like you would be senior to alot of others.

with 1.4 years of classification seniority? (if that's the case)

705red · 10-21-2008, 06:21 PM

Here layoffs go by company seniority within the classification.

Bad Gas! · 10-21-2008, 07:02 PM

We have a new 22.3 bid route up for a airport shuttle/hub second half..3am til 12 pm..which is a great offer except...The driver that did the shuttle before was fulltime and retired.This driver would shuttle, then come back run air and a few splitts..Great retirement route...Well, UPS here has made it into a combo to reduce payscale and God forbid give us a retirement route..I believe it has a grievance on it but grivances are backed up here...