Getting Screwed - Brown Cafe

OopsDriver · 03-04-2009, 06:39 PM

I have been really upset over this, so I will try and explain it and I hope someone out there can give me a striaght, correct answer because I've gotten the run around from everyone.
I came to UPS as a pre loader in Dec 06. On June 17, 08 I started classes to go driver full time. I went to a building and started my 30 days towards book on July 2, 2008. I made book on Aug 13, 2008.
To this day, SIX months later, no one knows if I am under the old contract or the new one. I was told when I started it was the old one. But I haven't gotten a raise yet. The August and Febuary ones have come and gone and I am still making the same money. Which by the way is the old contract rate.
My manger told me cause my book date is after Aug, I am new contract, but if that were true my pay rate would've been higher from day one, right? My shop steward and union rep say I am old contract and my problem is being "handeled" by the board. It seems they can't decide wehter to go by my book date or when I came in to the building and started making my book. Aaaarrggghhh!!
Can anyone write back and shed some light on this? I go to work everyday and feel like I am being used, it's very frustraiting.
Thanks for any and all insight. Oops

Hoaxster · 03-04-2009, 06:41 PM

Re: Getting Screwed

OK...this is definitely one that drewed knows nothing about...let's see what he does.

ol'browneye · 03-04-2009, 08:28 PM

It seems you started your 30 days on the old contract and reached fulltime qualification on the new contract. I went from part time to full time and my FT seniority date is listed as the day I started my 30 days. So I would think your full time seniority date would be listed as July 2, 2008. Therefore you are on the old contract.

It seems pretty cut and dried but I am sure someone is trying to hose you to keep you on the new progression. Stay in contact with the shop steward and union rep to make sure it gets "handeled" correctly!

tonyexpress · 03-04-2009, 08:29 PM

Hey OopsDriver,

Welcome to the Brown Cafe!!

Perhaps you'd be better off making a post like this in the labor forum. This way you're sure to get a much better response..

dilligaf · 03-05-2009, 05:48 AM

It should be by your seniority date. You started in 06, your seniority date is 06, you should be in progression under the old contratct. If you can't get an answer from your steward then go to your BA. If that doesn't help then file a grievance on it and have it go to panel and let panel decide. It may take time but you will get all your pay. It took me nearly a year to get 3 yrs of back pay.

Remeber - the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

drewed · 03-05-2009, 07:37 PM

Side question, when you bid a route it goes by your post 30 day date correct? why would it be any different with these circumstances if that is the case?

ol'browneye · 03-06-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewed

Side question, when you bid a route it goes by your post 30 day date correct? why would it be any different with these circumstances if that is the case?

No, I don't believe that is correct. As I posted before, my FT seniority date is the day I started my 30 days. That is the day that is used for bidding purposes.

scratch · 03-06-2009, 09:29 PM

I'm moving this thread from the BC Community Center Forum to the Labor Forum so it will be in a better spot.

drewed · 03-06-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol'browneye

No, I don't believe that is correct. As I posted before, my FT seniority date is the day I started my 30 days. That is the day that is used for bidding purposes.

Up here for our 22.3s and pt employees all bids are done by the date they reached seniority, I assume our drivers are done the same....

JonFrum · 03-07-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OopsDriver

I have been really upset over this, so I will try and explain it and I hope someone out there can give me a striaght, correct answer because I've gotten the run around from everyone.
I came to UPS as a pre loader in Dec 06. On June 17, 08 I started classes to go driver full time. I went to a building and started my 30 days towards book on July 2, 2008. I made book on Aug 13, 2008.
To this day, SIX months later, no one knows if I am under the old contract or the new one. I was told when I started it was the old one. But I haven't gotten a raise yet. The August and Febuary ones have come and gone and I am still making the same money. Which by the way is the old contract rate.
My manger told me cause my book date is after Aug, I am new contract, but if that were true my pay rate would've been higher from day one, right? My shop steward and union rep say I am old contract and my problem is being "handeled" by the board. It seems they can't decide wehter to go by my book date or when I came in to the building and started making my book. Aaaarrggghhh!!
Can anyone write back and shed some light on this? I go to work everyday and feel like I am being used, it's very frustraiting.
Thanks for any and all insight. Oops

Oops,
I assume you were originally a part-timer, and then went full-time driving. If so, then unfortunately, you do not qualify for the August 1 and February 1 yearly General Wage Increases because you had not attained full-time seniority by August 1, 2008.

Quote:

ARTICLE 41 FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES
Section 1. Full-time Wage Increases
All full-time employees who have attained seniority as of August 1, 2008 will receive the following general wage increases for each contract year. In each of the years, the increase shall be paid in two (2) equal installments. The first-half of the increase shall become effective on August 1 of the specified year. The second half of the increase shall become effective on February 1 of the following calendar year. The total wage increase for the year will be as follows:
2008 seventy cents ($0.70)
2009 seventy-five cents ($0.75)
2010 seventy-five cents ($0.75)
2011 eighty-five cents ($0.85)
2012 ninety-five cents ($0.95)

Since you entered the full-time driving progression before August 1, 2008 you are "grandfathered" under the old Article 41, Section 2c, by this language in the current Contract:

Quote:

ARTICLE 41 FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES
Section 2. Full-time Wage Progression
Article 41 Section 2 (c) of the prior Agreement shall remain in effect for all employees in that progression as of the date of the ratification and those who enter the progression between the date of ratification and August 1, 2008.

The old progression language that you fall under is:

Quote:

ARTICLE 41. FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES
Section 2. Full-Time New Hire Wage Progression
(c) The progression for employees entering a package car driving or feeder position after August 1, 2002 shall be as follows:
Start $14.70
Seniority $15.75
Twelve (12) months $16.80
Twenty-four (24) months $18.90
Thirty (30) months (current top rate)

You make less money per hour under the old progression, but you will make the huge jump to the (then) current Top Rate after (only) thirty months, rather than thirty-six months.

UPS Master Agreement & Regional Supplements:
http://tdu.org/node/1617

gandydancer · 03-07-2009, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonFrum

Oops,
I assume you were originally a part-timer, and then went full-time driving. If so, then unfortunately, you do not qualify for the August 1 and February 1 yearly General Wage Increases because you had not attained full-time seniority by August 1, 2008...

Um, no. This is covered in detail on another thread. See http://www.browncafe.com/forum/ups_l...ost491939.html. Jon, you omit the part of 41-2(a) which reads "Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this Master Agreement shall receive the above contractual increases." So oops should have gotten both contractual raises by now and should be making $16.10, but will nonetheless be paid less than post 7/08 hires until his 30 months are up, as confirmed by the National Grievance Committee. And his seniority date for ft bidding is clearly Aug 13, 2008. His management didn't get anything right.

JonFrum · 03-07-2009, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandydancer

Um, no. This is covered in detail on another thread. See http://www.browncafe.com/forum/ups_l...ost491939.html. Jon, you omit the part of 41-2(a) which reads "Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this Master Agreement shall receive the above contractual increases." So oops should have gotten both contractual raises by now and should be making $16.10, but will nonetheless be paid less than post 7/08 hires until his 30 months are up, as confirmed by the National Grievance Committee. And his seniority date for ft bidding is clearly Aug 13, 2008. His management didn't get anything right.

Dancer,

I assume you mean Article 41, Section 1, not Section 2(a).

Anyway, Oops would have to have been in full-time progression on Dec. 19, 2007 to qualify for the contractual raises under the language you cite, since that was "the effective date of this Master Agreement." In fact, he didn't go full-time (I assume) until June/July 2008.

Maybe bidding is done differently in different areas. Here you normally make full-time Seniority 30 days (or so) after you are hired, or after you transfer from part-time to full-time. Once you make seniority though, your Seniority Date is the date you were hired (or transfered to full-time.) So while Oops made seniority on August 13, 2008, his Seniority Date is July 2, 2008 (or maybe earlier, depending on weather orientation classes counts toward seniority or not.) Your Seniority Date and your Start Date are the same and that is what you use for bidding and most other things.

Sleeve_meet_Heart · 03-07-2009, 03:53 AM

Not getting screwed at all. You fall under the old contract and get roughly 10$ an hour more ( at that point top rate will be closing in or exceeding $30/hr) for months 30-36 had you been in the new contract.

chopstic · 03-07-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

The progression for employees entering a package car driving, or feeder, or other full-time job
(other than an air driver or a job covered by Section 3 below) position after August 1, 2002 2008
shall be as follows:
Start $14.70 $16.10
Seniority $15.75 $17.25
Twelve (12) months $16.80 $18.45
Twenty-four (24) months $18.90 $20.75
Thirty-six (36) (30) months (current top rate) Top Rate

It sounds like you "entered" your driving job in July so you would not be subject to the new 36 month progression. But I guess it depends how they interpret "entering". Thats the problem with these contracts, they touch on all the right ideas, but are written so subjective that anyone can misconstrue it to their own purposes.

jimstud · 03-07-2009, 01:01 PM

because you came from the inside your senoirity is the july date therefore you fall under the old contract

gandydancer · 03-07-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonFrum

I assume you mean Article 41, Section 1, not Section 2(a).

Right.

Quote:

Anyway, Oops would have to have been in full-time progression on Dec. 19, 2007 to qualify for the contractual raises under the language you cite, since that was "the effective date of this Master Agreement." In fact, he didn't go full-time (I assume) until June/July 2008.

This is a case where you have to apply a little common sense to determine the intent of the parties. Note that the language is carry-over language from '02 when there was no difference between effective date and contract date. Note that the same language was corrected in Article 21, Section 5 (part time) from "effective date" to "August 1, 2008". Note that it doesn't say "full time" progression, and oops WAS "in progression" on the effective date, albeit part-time progression. Note the existance of other bugs in the language, such as the reference to continued application of "2(c)" when the 1992 contract didn't HAVE a 2"(c)". My conclusion is that the intent of the parties was to modify the phrase in 41 in exactly the same way they did modify 21, but they forgot. But even a literal reading doesn't affect oops, just guys hired into driving between Dec '07 and July '08 who weren't in progression Dec '07 (outside hires... guys who'd finished progression?). An argument that it was the intent of the contract to disadvantage such an oddball class would be hard to get past an arb, I would think.

gandydancer · 03-07-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandydancer

... And his seniority date for ft bidding is clearly Aug 13, 2008...

I retract. My company seniority date is my rehire date (I was XMas, back when it didn't count at all), and my ft seniority date was backdated to an ought-to-have-transferred date, not when I made seniority in ODC. Oops' seniority date is whenever he went full-time (July 2nd '08, right?).

Billy · 03-13-2009, 05:34 PM

I have not done the math yet, but I was thinking it might be feasible to make more under the new contract than the old. Think about it...it takes a shorter time to reach top pay with the old contract, but you're making more money for a longer time with the new one. Are you really better off to have the new longer one?

big_arrow_up · 03-13-2009, 08:25 PM

I was hired full-time between the early ratification date and August 1, 2008. I've been getting the February and August raises and will top out in 2.5 years from my hire date instead of 3 years like anyone hired full-time after August 1, 2008. This is how it should go down anyway. We'll see what happens.