OJS certification & discipline for performance

[Jones]

Originally Posted by helenofcalifornia

I am concerned as an older driver what will happen when I get my ride along to "fix the loop." Mostly what worries me is a supervisor riding with mr talking ALL day long!

Put one of those signs in the cab that says
"Please do not distract driver while vehicle is in motion".

Anytime the supervisor tries to talk to you, respond by pointing to the sign. This also works well on production and safety rides when they start trying to grill you on the five seeing habits or whatever as you're traveling down the highway.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by Jones

Put one of those signs in the cab that says
"Please do not distract driver while vehicle is in motion".

Anytime the supervisor tries to talk to you, respond by pointing to the sign. This also works well on production and safety rides when they start trying to grill you on the five seeing habits or whatever as you're traveling down the highway.

I just pull over, park legally, put on the 4-ways and shut off the engine every time they start talking to me, that way I can hear them and focus 100% on the important things they are trying to tell me.

I have noticed that after I have done that 2 or 3 times, they have a lot less to say.

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by soberups

I just pull over, park legally, put on the 4-ways and shut off the engine every time they start talking to me, that way I can hear them and focus 100% on the important things they are trying to tell me.

I have noticed that after I have done that 2 or 3 times, they have a lot less to say.

I like this idea. Hmmmm

[helenofcalifornia]

I have a lot of steep driveways on my route, so the idea of a supervisor literally on my ass, will be in my thoughts. I think that quick stop will end that.

[dilligaf]

I don't like having my personal space encroached upon unless it is by some one that I know well. I don't like my sups that much! LOL

[moreluck]

dilli,
You made me think of that Seinfeld where Judge Reinhold played the "close talker".....cracked me up !!

[outta hours]

Originally Posted by helenofcalifornia

I am concerned as an older driver what will happen when I get my ride along to "fix the loop." Mostly what worries me is a supervisor riding with mr talking ALL day long!

This worked for me when I was in pkg. Before leaving the building ask the sup. if he minds if you talk on your phone while working. He will say no it's a safety issue. Let him know that is fine with you. Then whenever he starts talking to you while you are driving immediately and safely pull over and stop without saying a word. He will ask what the !$@ are you doing? Inform him that his attempted conversations with you while driving are just as unsafe as the cell phone usage he informed you of before you left the building. Works like a charm.

On another note do not allow your sup. to engage you in OJS items while you are on your lunch break. They always try to review or ask safety questions while at lunch. The time for that stuff is back at the building in the PM. Good luck

[big_arrow_up]

Originally Posted by bdmiz

They tried this in the laguna building with me. My PPH (packages per hour) loaded was too low for them. They told me that when I was hired I signed an agreement stating I would maintain 360pph while loading. I signed no such agreement so I told them to show it to me. It was never made available.

The only thing they can do is exactly like an OJS ride. A sup sits in the trailer with you and see's exactly what you can do following the correct methods, then they hold you to that number. The key is to do it right, every single night. Your numbers ALWAYS fluctuate based on what the volume is for that night. Heavier packages, larger packages, lots of irregs to throw up, walking all the way out the trailer to break jams in the chute, cleaning up floors to maintain a safe walking path, all these things take LOTS of time. If you do it the same way every night, you have nothing to worry about.

If I remember correctly the contract says that anything you sign that doesn't pertain to what is in the contract then it is null and void.

[bigblu 2 you]

does anyone know of an actual case of a driver being fired due to sub par performance? im not talking about stealing time or bad/wrong methods,just a slower then what a sup/mgr expects,but doing his/hers job safely, where im at they are threatning 3 day rides,lock in that average,then chain of discipline afterwards if not meeting those numbers on weekly avg.almost every driver at our center has over 25 years,"we are old goats"we dont move as fast as we did 18 years ago when the last time study was done in our bldg.give me some good advice/ammo for me and my brothers,no b.s please just facts. thanks.

[bigblu 2 you]

and one other thing,we were told a year ago to just stay under 1 hour "overallow" and we would be alright,today we were told "due to economy,volume, district mgr big ideas,etc. we we be running scratch or face rides/discpline".thanks for the fairness and openness you've created in our work place,cant wait to take another e.r.i. .

[soberups]

Originally Posted by bigblu 2 you

and one other thing,we were told a year ago to just stay under 1 hour "overallow" and we would be alright,today we were told "due to economy,volume, district mgr big ideas,etc. we we be running scratch or face rides/discpline".thanks for the fairness and openness you've created in our work place,cant wait to take another e.r.i. .

The labor agreement does not recognize time allowances, or failure to meet them, as being a cause for disciplinary action.

Your management is of course free to ride with you, but an excessive number of rides can be construed as over-supervision or harrassment which is a violation of Art 37.

Your management team is just flinging empty threats at you, which are nothing more than a direct reflection of their own fears and insecurities. As a driver you have more job security than they do. Never forget that.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by bigblu 2 you

does anyone know of an actual case of a driver being fired due to sub par performance? im not talking about stealing time or bad/wrong methods,just a slower then what a sup/mgr expects,but doing his/hers job safely, where im at they are threatning 3 day rides,lock in that average,then chain of discipline afterwards if not meeting those numbers on weekly avg.almost every driver at our center has over 25 years,"we are old goats"we dont move as fast as we did 18 years ago when the last time study was done in our bldg.give me some good advice/ammo for me and my brothers,no b.s please just facts. thanks.

I seem to recall a driver around here getting fired about 20 years ago over production, but his was a blatant case where he was consistently able to demonstrate something like 15 SPORH while supervised and only 10 SPORH alone. This occurd over a long period of time and was far beyond the normal statistical variation that will occur day-to-day on a route.

I recently represented a driver who had maintained a documented average over 30 days of 14.2 SPORH and on the one day he was ridden with he did 14.75. His methods were good and he still came in 1.5 hrs overallowed. Management wanted him to "commit" to maintaining 14.75. I told them that a .55 SPORH increase on one particular day out of 30 was statistically irrelevant, and that the driver would commit to nothing other than working safely and by the methods. The matter was dropped.

[bigblu 2 you]

thanks soberups, we will probably talk again,the drama has begun this past week and from what drivers around the district are saying could continue.its hard to stay in the game when they make/change the rules.

[jimstud]

Originally Posted by helenofcalifornia

I am concerned as an older driver what will happen when I get my ride along to "fix the loop." Mostly what worries me is a supervisor riding with mr talking ALL day long!

article 37 when talking about preformance you have to tkke into consideration the employees age and phyiscal condition

[browniehound]

Originally Posted by bigblu 2 you

and one other thing,we were told a year ago to just stay under 1 hour "overallow" and we would be alright,today we were told "due to economy,volume, district mgr big ideas,etc. we we be running scratch or face rides/discpline".thanks for the fairness and openness you've created in our work place,cant wait to take another e.r.i. .

Hey Bigblu,
If UPS were to say "run scratch or you're fired" then 99% of the drivers would be fired. Then UPS would have to replace 99% of its drivers and the employees they replaced them with would be 10 times worse at best.

In other words, it would never happen. They can ride you and push production and try to squeeze another .3-.5 out of your already productive and efficent SPOHR.

However, my guess is you wouldn't even recieve a warning letter unless the difference was very significant and drastic. If that were the case, I think I would be more embarassed at my job performance than being concerened about disipline.

Its almost a fact that your SPOHR will increase with a manager riding with you for three days. I liken it to a jockey whipping his horse. If he's not whipped he won't run as fast.

Problem is, UPS drivers operate in the real world where customer contact is a neccessity. When the manager is with you, customer contact is reduced to hi and goodbye, lol.

My opinion is this is NOT the way to interact with our customers if UPS expects the drivers to have that "great relationship" that will generate sales leads.

It kind of irritates me that UPS wants it both ways. The supervisor will breathe down our necks on 3-day rides to prove a number suitable to him, but on every other day he wants us talk with our customers to generate leads, shuttle other driver's airs back to the hub, and deliver misloads miles out of the way. All of these things happen everyday and add to our over allowance yet they are not allowed to happen on OJS's.

It doesn't seem fair to me?

[dragon]

Its almost a fact that your SPOHR will increase with a manager riding with you for three days. I liken it to a jockey whipping his horse. If he's not whipped he won't run as fast.

If a manager rides with you and corrects 10 items over a 3 day period (documented and in the letter of record) how is that whipping the horse? Oh by the way the driver was in off the clock by 630 everyday, also did 10-15 more stops a day and reduced over allowed by .25.-.40 ??

[dragon]

Originally Posted by dragon

Its almost a fact that your SPOHR will increase with a manager riding with you for three days. I liken it to a jockey whipping his horse. If he's not whipped he won't run as fast.

If a manager rides with you and corrects 10 items over a 3 day period (documented and in the letter of record) how is that whipping the horse? Oh by the way the driver was in off the clock by 630 pm everyday, also did 10-15 more stops a day and reduced over allowed by .25.-.40 ??

[3HrsOverAllowed]

In our center we're dealing with the same "demonstrated level of performance" issues. A month or so ago our division mgr. had three drivers in the office and gave us a piece of paper called the "service provider re- training initiative". This paper outlines how the company plans on terminating drivers who fail to conform to their production standards. Being the job steward, I immediately faxed the paper to our BA who in turn notified the dm of the locals intent to file a charge with the labor relations board. Needless to say we've heard nothing else about it.

[some1else]

Originally Posted by dragon

Its almost a fact that your SPOHR will increase with a manager riding with you for three days. I liken it to a jockey whipping his horse. If he's not whipped he won't run as fast.

we had a couple of slow drivers that where being followed CONSTANTLY along with the max number of ride alongs. these drivers started to follow methods EXACTLY and where coming in over 9.5 almost daily. once they gave up and left them alone they havent been over 9.5 since...

[BIGBROWNLONGHORN]

Run scratch or be fired? Thats what they tell the weak. And you know what they skip lunch and run .20 to .50 over. Wat a deal steal from the employee

[bigblu 2 you]

i dont think these performance issues should even make it to a panel.if there is no language except the fair days work/fair days pay then why would a b.a.or union official even waste their time jaw jacking with a sup about overallowed? yet we see this repeatedly and it seldom results in anything positive or reinforcing for the employee? i would like to see the current or next president blow this issue out of the water.speaking only for myself,ive had enough! id set on a picket line a month to win this one!

[3HrsOverAllowed]

Originally Posted by 3HrsOverAllowed

In our center we're dealing with the same "demonstrated level of performance" issues. A month or so ago our division mgr. had three drivers in the office and gave us a piece of paper called the "service provider re- training initiative". This paper outlines how the company plans on terminating drivers who fail to conform to their production standards. Being the job steward, I immediately faxed the paper to our BA who in turn notified the dm of the locals intent to file a charge with the labor relations board. Needless to say we've heard nothing else about it.

Well, I spoke too soon. Today they had two drivers in the office for failing to maintain their "demonstrated level of performance". I informed the sup he has no leg to stand on concerning performance and that this is nothing more than harrassment. He obviously disagreed, and stated a warning letter would be issued to each driver. Since UPS wants to play hardball, we will play hardball. Our management team has a bad habit of doing hourly work that has been looked over in the past, but no more. I informed every driver what was happening for not maintaining SPORH, and to no longer let management get away with ANY contract violations. They want a war, they're going to get it!

[brownrodster]

Originally Posted by browniehound

Hey Bigblu,


Its almost a fact that your SPOHR will increase with a manager riding with you for three days. I liken it to a jockey whipping his horse. If he's not whipped he won't run as fast.

I have never understood this. Every time I ride with a manager my SPORH decreases. I remember during my 30 days my sup decided to ride with me. I was on him about how much he was slowing me down. It was like dragging an anchor.

A long time after that a different sup was giving me my yearly ride and he actually told me to slow down! Several times. First and only time I've been told to slow down at UPS.

My driver helpers don't last long either. They can't keep up. I work them into the ground...

I think I would make a great UPS driver sup. I got hte methods down. I don't waste any time. I can show many people how to work smarter and go faster... I'm educated. Got me some degrees 'n chit. But I could never go over to their side. ha.

But I've always been very athletic. I have an extreme aerobic capacity. My walk is faster that a lot of peoples jog. I can walk up hill all day while carrying something heavy and I don't get winded or tired. I think I could have been an olympic race walker.

[some1else]

Originally Posted by brownrodster

But I've always been very athletic. I have an extreme aerobic capacity. My walk is faster that a lot of peoples jog. I can walk up hill all day while carrying something heavy and I don't get winded or tired. I think I could have been an olympic race walker.

whats that song goes "mighty full of ourselves all of a sudden arent we"

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by some1else

whats that song goes "mighty full of ourselves all of a sudden arent we"

I think that song was actually written by UpstateNYUPSer--boy, is he arrogant!