OJS certification & discipline for performance - Brown Cafe

Shazam! · 03-07-2009, 10:03 PM

I was wondering if any of u guys out there have been seeing a strong push towards progressive discipline based on performance certified on a 3 day OJS ride. For example:

Jo is OJS'd for 3 days, within a weeks time the company certifies him at 18.5 an hour (spore),(ouch!, not me I swear). A week after certification Jo runs a spore of 17. He is imediatly given a talk with, asking him to maintain the certified 18.5. Jo complains that during the OJS his route was modified, he had meet points, bad weather etc. Company maintains that all that is factored in to your numbers and that he must always maintain the demonstrated performance. Next week same thing except he recieves a warning letter, week after that a suspension, after that an intent to discharge.

My advice was to file a letter of concern against the 3 day ride. On the flip side i know another driver who was OJS 'd and brought the truck in all three days over 9/5 and was harrassed to no end all three days. He is being told that there will b more rides soon with upper management. it apears that if u dont produce the desired #s in 3 days they will continue to ride with u until they get the desired results #s wise. any OJS info is helpful thx

MC4YOU2 · 03-07-2009, 11:43 PM

It appears as if the co. is doing this in a renewed push to trim costs and prepare us for the inevitible cutting of rts. They are trying to use under/over as the production measurement, which is much more slippery to hold a driver to, but so far no letters. Too soon into the game they are playing maybe? BA says anything over initial 3 day ride - to file a harrassment grievance. This will keep them off car until it's heard, at least. By then new bad ideas will likely have replaced this one they have.

undies · 03-08-2009, 01:05 AM

I have drivers in my center BEGGING for ride alongs, its funny how different each building works considering were all the same company.

gandydancer · 03-08-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazam!

... Company maintains that all that is factored in to your numbers and that he must always maintain the demonstrated performance...

Company can claim their fewmets are pure gold, but an elementary level of knowledge of probability and statistics will tell you that three observations averaging 18.5 is perfectly consistent with an underlying performance level of 17, never mind occasional performance at the 17 level. An underlying performance of 20 or more is also consistent with both at a certain probability, nevermind the possibility that management is skewing the experiment. Hopefully the union hasn't agreed to anyone on the arb panel who can't grasp this.

Quote:

... He is being told that there will b more rides soon with upper management...

It's called "excessive supervision" in the contract. No point in delaying the union's involvement.

soberups · 03-08-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazam!

I was wondering if any of u guys out there have been seeing a strong push towards progressive discipline based on performance certified on a 3 day OJS ride. For example:

Jo is OJS'd for 3 days, within a weeks time the company certifies him at 18.5 an hour (spore),(ouch!, not me I swear). A week after certification Jo runs a spore of 17. He is imediatly given a talk with, asking him to maintain the certified 18.5. Jo complains that during the OJS his route was modified, he had meet points, bad weather etc. Company maintains that all that is factored in to your numbers and that he must always maintain the demonstrated performance. Next week same thing except he recieves a warning letter, week after that a suspension, after that an intent to discharge.

My advice was to file a letter of concern against the 3 day ride. On the flip side i know another driver who was OJS 'd and brought the truck in all three days over 9/5 and was harrassed to no end all three days. He is being told that there will b more rides soon with upper management. it apears that if u dont produce the desired #s in 3 days they will continue to ride with u until they get the desired results #s wise. any OJS info is helpful thx

Nowhere in the contract does it mention anything about being "certified" to run a particular number of stops per hour.

The company is free to place whatever production expectations it chooses to upon a driver, but failure to meet those expectations is not a terminable offense.

Continual OJS rides are an art 37 violation, the driver needs to file.

Shazam! · 03-08-2009, 02:15 PM

not entirely true, an abritrator ruled against a driver in NY who failed to meet his certified performace. He did not get his job back.

UPSNewbie · 03-08-2009, 02:18 PM

You mean this?

http://www.browncafe.com/forum/ups_d...rmination.html

dilligaf · 03-08-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

Nowhere in the contract does it mention anything about being "certified" to run a particular number of stops per hour.

The company is free to place whatever production expectations it chooses to upon a driver, but failure to meet those expectations is not a terminable offense.

Continual OJS rides are an art 37 violation, the driver needs to file.

Not only this, but anytime you sign an OJS note any discrepancies. And get a copy of it. If they refuse to let you note anything then RTS it.

dragon · 03-08-2009, 08:36 PM

You guys might want to listen to Shazam! Its comming down the pike......

Braveheart · 03-08-2009, 10:07 PM

They are going overboard with it down here. Drivers must protest everything plus harassment.

We pay really good dues money so every driver should call the union halls until they do something about it. Every 3 day ride I got was skewed.

We always missed 9.5 two out of three days and then when my stops are reduced to make 9.5 I can not maintain sporh due to easy resi work taken off my route that inflated sporh in the first place.

We pay too much dues money to have UPS walking all over us with perfect service and perfect safety and yet run all day to make numbers. I have plenty of safe driving years under my belt and simply make all services on time with almost no errors. My stops per hour are consistant and are not all over the place. Now because of 3 days I am to maintain or fired.

Union needs to earn our dues money on this!!!

Shazam! · 03-09-2009, 07:47 PM

agreed!! drivers need to cover their ass as much as possible and not agree to any certification as well as strong backing from their steward. Drivers need to stick together and talk to each other about what's going when they are in that office. So that the next guy is prepared!!! Any other suggestions out there?

MC4YOU2 · 03-09-2009, 09:42 PM

On OJS days, mgmt goes thru the load and removes misloads, puts every SPA in sequence, and tidy's it all up before drivers get to the building, plus looking for easy stuff to add for best sporh,s. It's imperative that u go to every length to complete your job that day so you can counter this foolishness. Full and complete pretrip, perfect methods- going around rear of car to cross street, awesome indirecting wirh a goal of 0 send agains, safe dry out of sight DR's, using rain bags around back of house, indirecting resis at neighbors. Attempting multiple sales leads, drinking lots of water to stay hydrated. Once you have set a high sporh it's easy for the co. to mess with you. You must do your best to show how much time the job takes when done correctly, you should not cut any corner, and if your rider opens any doors, handles any pkgs or hurries any customer you should note it and use it to refute their puffed up demands.

The Other Side · 03-10-2009, 08:02 AM

One of the biggest problems many drivers experience is being faster when a sup is on the car.

Drivers will run an hour or two in the hole without the sup on car, then an OJS arrives and for some reason they speed up.

It should be the "other" way around. NO driver should be faster with a sup on car if you are following methods. As one poster said, 3/40 methods, handrails, proper parking, rain bags, handcart use, indirecting, hand to surface all pickup packages, delivery notices etc. etc..

If you just did they job they "way" they want it, you will be slower when a sup is on car, not faster.

As for holding drivers to "production standards", not to worry. No arbitor will recognize a company standard that has no real known value. Because there isnt a transparent calculation for time, the arbitor will always reject this standard. Additionally, if a case gets to arbitration, a simple comparision to other routes will demonstrate an "inconsistency" between calculations.

How many of you know of routes that are doing less stops, less miles, less pickups and less spohr, and yet they "plan" better than you??

While the company has to do whatever it feels is necessary to increase production (by their standards) you should not feel compelled to worry.

Grieve every talk with, every warning letter and get the local involved as soon as they mention production to you.

Remember, your only obligation is "a fair days work for a fair days pay". This is not a production standard.

The contract has NO standards in it, and thats what we operate under.

During the OJS, take your breaks and lunch and if you go past 10 hours (and depending on your state law) take your second 1/2 lunch without interference from the sup.

When you do a pickup, hand to surface all packages and do not toss in, multi-lift or drag in the handcart full of packages.

Never drop COD's off and collect checks later, even if the sup suggests to do it. This happens alot where I work.

If you follow the simple methods outlined, you should be alot slower with a sup on car than when your alone.

If you are asked to review your ride, ask your steward to sit in with you and listen to what is said.

Finally, NEVER EVER sign anything the company hands you with respect to production. Article 6 of the national master agreement grants you a right to refuse to sign any agreement or contract whether individually or collectively that is OUTSIDE the national master agreement.

A production agreement is OUTSIDE the National Master Agreement.

If you are asked to sign such an agreement, cite this article and base your grievance on this right.

Knowing your rights is key to any defense against an unfair system.

pudg00 · 03-10-2009, 02:39 PM

Do you know if similar "standards" are inforceable with pre-load? I am working pre-load as I have been laid off. This morning's PCM told us we should toss a certain amount of pkg's per hour blah blah blah. Just wondering I you have any insight.

bdmiz · 03-10-2009, 04:32 PM

They tried this in the laguna building with me. My PPH (packages per hour) loaded was too low for them. They told me that when I was hired I signed an agreement stating I would maintain 360pph while loading. I signed no such agreement so I told them to show it to me. It was never made available.

The only thing they can do is exactly like an OJS ride. A sup sits in the trailer with you and see's exactly what you can do following the correct methods, then they hold you to that number. The key is to do it right, every single night. Your numbers ALWAYS fluctuate based on what the volume is for that night. Heavier packages, larger packages, lots of irregs to throw up, walking all the way out the trailer to break jams in the chute, cleaning up floors to maintain a safe walking path, all these things take LOTS of time. If you do it the same way every night, you have nothing to worry about.

3HrsOverAllowed · 03-15-2009, 06:31 PM

Use your methods, be consistent,file for over supervision and harrassment,and never sign anything!

gandydancer · 03-15-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3HrsOverAllowed

Use your methods, be consistent,file for over supervision and harrassment,and never sign anything!

Au contraire. In California you have a right, by state law, to a copy of anything you sign. This can be useful.

Braveheart · 03-19-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC4YOU2

On OJS days, mgmt goes thru the load and removes misloads, puts every SPA in sequence, and tidy's it all up before drivers get to the building, plus looking for easy stuff to add for best sporh,s. It's imperative that u go to every length to complete your job that day so you can counter this foolishness. Full and complete pretrip, perfect methods- going around rear of car to cross street, awesome indirecting wirh a goal of 0 send agains, safe dry out of sight DR's, using rain bags around back of house, indirecting resis at neighbors. Attempting multiple sales leads, drinking lots of water to stay hydrated. Once you have set a high sporh it's easy for the co. to mess with you. You must do your best to show how much time the job takes when done correctly, you should not cut any corner, and if your rider opens any doors, handles any pkgs or hurries any customer you should note it and use it to refute their puffed up demands.

Good post

BIGBROWNLONGHORN · 03-22-2009, 11:51 AM

I told ctr mgr and 2 onroads please ride with me but they wont isaid why not they said iam not on there list but they get pissed when i inform everbody of there union rights bring it on

BIGBROWNLONGHORN · 04-03-2009, 07:46 PM

I just took a route where driver skips lunch an sorts truck for 30 mins every morning i told them i would be 1plus hour over ever day and they said why and i said please ride with me they said well fix it what does that mean

dilligaf · 04-04-2009, 01:18 AM

It means they are adding more work. LOL

UpstateNYUPSer · 04-04-2009, 03:31 AM

I just took a route where the driver skips his lunch and sorts the pkg car for 30 mins every morning. I told them I would be one hour or more over every day and they asked why. I said please ride with me. They said we'll fix it. What does that mean?

There--much better.

helenofcalifornia · 04-04-2009, 08:20 AM

I am concerned as an older driver what will happen when I get my ride along to "fix the loop." Mostly what worries me is a supervisor riding with mr talking ALL day long!

dilligaf · 04-04-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

I just took a route where the driver skips his lunch and sorts the pkg car for 30 mins every morning. I told them I would be one hour or more over every day and they asked why. I said please ride with me. They said we'll fix it. What does that mean?

There--much better.

Thank you Upstate. That is so much easier to read.

dilligaf · 04-04-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helenofcalifornia

I am concerned as an older driver what will happen when I get my ride along to "fix the loop." Mostly what worries me is a supervisor riding with mr talking ALL day long!

Helen, I know how you feel. I am the type that has to be able to concentrate on what I am doing and when I have a sup with me my concentration goes out the window. I let them know that they are distracting me. I set my boundaries. They get in the way, I tell them to move. Especially if they get into my personal space, which is within arms length. I had a sup that had to be right on my heels at all times. It didn't last long, I would stop fast and let him run into me. He backed off fast.

Let them know, what is ok and not ok. Don't be shy about it. They have to ride with you but they do not have to be intrusive about it.