Safety Issue question - Brown Cafe

altstewie · 07-02-2009, 01:31 PM

Im a safety committee member for our sort and Im a contract defender. Lets just say management does not enjoy it when I make my way toward them.

In the past, we had some egress problems and I put it on the concern log during the safety meetings and then told the full time supe the possibility of filing grievance/OSHA claim. Egress problems went away just like that. Now they are back. I went to him and he basically said it was my job to tell the loader causing the egress to stop it. The loader causing the egress is a combo-guy, nice guy, he just lacks the physical ability to do his job in combination with management sending the flow so hard at him. I told my supervisor its not my job to instruct him. I dont want to get this guy pissed, what I want is the flow to be controlled or for him to get help from fellow employees. Im not even in his area its just this area happens to be by the bathroom.

Anyways my supervisor says because im on the safety comittee that I have to tell him to watch his egress. I believe that its not my job to figure what the problem is since Im not a supervisor but a worker who was just trying to maintain the companys integrity on safety first. What are peoples opinions on this. I may add that I do not file grievances on supervisors cleaning egress as long as their not loading but just making a legal path.

Sleeve_meet_Heart · 07-02-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by altstewie

Im a safety committee member for our sort and Im a contract defender. Lets just say management does not enjoy it when I make my way toward them.

In the past, we had some egress problems and I put it on the concern log during the safety meetings and then told the full time supe the possibility of filing grievance/OSHA claim. Egress problems went away just like that. Now they are back. I went to him and he basically said it was my job to tell the loader causing the egress to stop it. The loader causing the egress is a combo-guy, nice guy, he just lacks the physical ability to do his job in combination with management sending the flow so hard at him. I told my supervisor its not my job to instruct him. I dont want to get this guy pissed, what I want is the flow to be controlled or for him to get help from fellow employees. Im not even in his area its just this area happens to be by the bathroom.

Anyways my supervisor says because im on the safety comittee that I have to tell him to watch his egress. I believe that its not my job to figure what the problem is since Im not a supervisor but a worker who was just trying to maintain the companys integrity on safety first. What are peoples opinions on this. I may add that I do not file grievances on supervisors cleaning egress as long as their not loading but just making a legal path.

First issue is being on the sham called the safety committee. Immediately that draws red flags.

Secondly, it is up to UPS to provide the EMPLOYEE with the JOB FUNCTION that the employee can work SAFELY and effectively. This is in the contract, although the wording is of course handsomely guised.

derf3733 · 07-02-2009, 07:15 PM

We now have egress training in our building for the very same problem that a steward filed an OHSA complaint on and the company was fined repeatedly and had to develop the training for our irreg trains that were blocking pedestrian doors.

soberups · 07-02-2009, 10:18 PM

It boils down to a willingness on the part of the work group to shut the belt off until the egress is cleared.

Management will keep cramming the volume down your throat and you just have to keep shutting the belt off and spitting it right back into their faces until they make a decision to adjust the flow and adequately staff the operation.

They know what they need to do. You just have to provide them with the motivation to do it. Grievances and OSHA fines are the only way to force the company to create a safe enviornment.

thelus · 07-03-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

Grievances and OSHA fines are the only way to force the company to create a safe enviornment.

And thats the sad reality we live in today

dannyboy · 07-03-2009, 04:41 PM

Alt

Dont let sleeve influence you.

You have a unique position to force UPS to walk the talk. Too many of the safety committee chairs dont want to anger the company, so they become a rubber stamp for what ever flavor the company wants to push.

Kinda like the candy bar stuff some have posted about.

As both in my building, there were a lot of changes. They knew that if it went on the concerns log, they better have a valid reason for it not being fixed within 24 hours. And they also knew as sure as sun would rise, that if it was not fixed properly and timely, there would be paperwork with the union and the district safety office. They knew what to expect, just like a child that is misbehaving gets their punishment.

If it was something that you can fix, you have the authorization of the safety department to fix it.

But managing other people is not one of those things that fall under your job classification. Rather punch on the clock and go help the guy. If they raise hell, then use Sober's advice and stop the flow until the safety issue is resolved.

d

Sleeve_meet_Heart · 07-03-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Alt

Dont let sleeve influence you.

You have a unique position to force UPS to walk the talk. Too many of the safety committee chairs dont want to anger the company, so they become a rubber stamp for what ever flavor the company wants to push.

Kinda like the candy bar stuff some have posted about.

As both in my building, there were a lot of changes. They knew that if it went on the concerns log, they better have a valid reason for it not being fixed within 24 hours. And they also knew as sure as sun would rise, that if it was not fixed properly and timely, there would be paperwork with the union and the district safety office. They knew what to expect, just like a child that is misbehaving gets their punishment.

If it was something that you can fix, you have the authorization of the safety department to fix it.

But managing other people is not one of those things that fall under your job classification. Rather punch on the clock and go help the guy. If they raise hell, then use Sober's advice and stop the flow until the safety issue is resolved.

d

What I said were two completely true statements.

Read the initial post, especially the end which is the meat-and-potatos.

"In the past, we had some egress problems and I put it on the concern log during the safety meetings and then told the full time supe the possibility of filing grievance/OSHA claim. Egress problems went away just like that. Now they are back. I went to him and he basically said it was my job to tell the loader causing the egress to stop it. The loader causing the egress is a combo-guy, nice guy, he just lacks the physical ability to do his job in combination with management sending the flow so hard at him. I told my supervisor its not my job to instruct him. I dont want to get this guy pissed, what I want is the flow to be controlled or for him to get help from fellow employees. Im not even in his area its just this area happens to be by the bathroom."

UPS should and contractually must make work accomdations based on an employees overall abilities (or lack thereof) to promote a safe work environment for everyone. If said employee cannot physically function properly within a job (as a loader for instance), it is up to UPS to find alternative work assignents. It is not about power plays, trying to force an employee (a combo, probably no coincidence) to quit or get hurt.

If someone wants to listen to me or 'be influenced' then let them be the judge; it makes you look foolish telling a grownup how to think, at least imo.

705red · 07-04-2009, 02:46 PM

I have filed grievances on this and called OSHA my self. It was cleaned up for a few days when all of the metro big wigs came in to observe.

Now again the palatine building is up for grabs and I even had a full time sup send an employee home because he could not safely exit the trailer he was working in to go to another one in a timely manner due to egress. No BS i have a copy of the pitts form were this employee was issued a warning for it!

The full time sup told me its the employees responsibility not the companies to keep the work area egress free?!?!?!?!

I have reached my exhaustion level with this issue and the next time I see egress blocked on the twilight i will be filing another OSHA concern.

dannyboy · 07-05-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

First issue is being on the sham called the safety committee. Immediately that draws red flags.

You politely forgot this sentence. And this was what I was refering to not listen to.

It is up to managment to make sure all egress issues are dealt with.

discussing an employees abilities is beyond the scope of the discussion.

IF there is an issue that the company is causing (instructions or lack there of, flow issues, building design etc), that needs to be addressed. And one of the best is to be a cochair on the committee and a steward as well. It will suprise you how fast things will get done if the steward is motivated.

d

tieguy · 07-06-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboy

You politely forgot this sentence. And this was what I was refering to not listen to.

It is up to managment to make sure all egress issues are dealt with.

discussing an employees abilities is beyond the scope of the discussion.

IF there is an issue that the company is causing (instructions or lack there of, flow issues, building design etc), that needs to be addressed. And one of the best is to be a cochair on the committee and a steward as well. It will suprise you how fast things will get done if the steward is motivated.

d

I'd be careful with this one. If the guy causing the egress problems does a poor job then he could definitely feel some heat as a result of the steward making an issue of egress. can the guy keep the sort aisle clean regardless of the flow coming down the belt. If so then he needs to work as instructed and pick up anything that blocks egress.

soberups · 07-06-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

I'd be careful with this one. If the guy causing the egress problems does a poor job then he could definitely feel some heat as a result of the steward making an issue of egress. can the guy keep the sort aisle clean regardless of the flow coming down the belt. If so then he needs to work as instructed and pick up anything that blocks egress.

The egress problems we have are because the company wont supply enough stack tables. The packages come down the belt faster than the loader can load them and there isnt anywhere to put them. Our MDU is overcrowded and has no stack tables at all so once you shove the bulk stops under the belt the whole thing is blown out. Packages start getting piled in the walkway or they just fall off of the belt itself onto the floor. Its like pouring water into a clogged toilet, the $%#@ just gets all over the place.

dannyboy · 07-07-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

I'd be careful with this one. If the guy causing the egress problems does a poor job then he could definitely feel some heat as a result of the steward making an issue of egress

Tie

Why is it that when there is a problem, its always the hourly that is the problem?

Quote:

the guy causing the egress problems

But then again, if the guy causing the problem is management, then they could feel some heat as well.

Mamma used to tell me its damn hard to make an omelet without cracking a few eggs first.

I say lets crack some and see what happens.

d

tieguy · 07-07-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Tie

Why is it that when there is a problem, its always the hourly that is the problem?

Ah danialsan I don't believe I said anything like "its always the hourly that is the problem".

But then again, if the guy causing the problem is management, then they could feel some heat as well.

Mamma used to tell me its damn hard to make an omelet without cracking a few eggs first.

I say lets crack some and see what happens.

d

Crack away. My experience with the issue is some egress issues are facility design issues. Some are flow issues. Some are hourlys not doing what they are told to do. Thus my point be careful you don't have hourlys not doing what they are supposed to when you start cracking your eggs.

soberups · 07-07-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

Crack away. My experience with the issue is some egress issues are facility design issues. Some are flow issues. Some are hourlys not doing what they are told to do. Thus my point be careful you don't have hourlys not doing what they are supposed to when you start cracking your eggs.

The problem is that the company will not correct facility design or flow issues; they simply blame all egress problems on the hourly who is getting buried.

tieguy · 07-08-2009, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

The problem is that the company will not correct facility design or flow issues; they simply blame all egress problems on the hourly who is getting buried.

despite this particular facet of the problem as you percieve there are in some situation hourlys not doing thier job that result in egress issues. I'm not saying that is the reason in all cases. Be careful when you start firing bullets because you may catch a few of your own.

dannyboy · 07-08-2009, 06:06 AM

Tie

Not all hourly are motivated hard workers. Just like not all management are honest respectable.

We expect management to deal with those that dont work. After all, it is the rest of us that pay for a slacker in the workgroup. Just like we expect management to clean house when there is a sup changing time cards.

IF it is an ability issue where the hourly does not have the ability or training to do the job, then move the hourly to where he can function. If ne needs training, train im.

d

soberups · 07-08-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

despite this particular facet of the problem as you percieve there are in some situation hourlys not doing thier job that result in egress issues. I'm not saying that is the reason in all cases. Be careful when you start firing bullets because you may catch a few of your own.

I have been parked and loaded in the same MDU for 12 years.

During that time there has probably been about a 1000% turnover rate amongst the preloaders. Same thing for the PT sups that manage them.

What hasnt changed...is the daily struggle with egress issues, the overcrowding, the lack of stack tables, the understaffing, and the packages coming down the belt faster than they can possibly be loaded.

UPS has made a business decision to refuse to address these issues; the solution to all egress problems is to just scream at the 19 yr old making $9.50 an hour to "work faster". And occasionally some Safety Committee flunkie will be sent out there to read egress acronyms to him and give him a muffin.

Sleeve_meet_Heart · 07-08-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

I have been parked and loaded in the same MDU for 12 years.

During that time there has probably been about a 1000% turnover rate amongst the preloaders. Same thing for the PT sups that manage them.

What hasnt changed...is the daily struggle with egress issues, the overcrowding, the lack of stack tables, the understaffing, and the packages coming down the belt faster than they can possibly be loaded.

UPS has made a business decision to refuse to address these issues; the solution to all egress problems is to just scream at the 19 yr old making $9.50 an hour to "work faster". And occasionally some Safety Committee flunkie will be sent out there to read egress acronyms to him and give him a muffin.

and a warm bottled water that was in someones vehicle trunk for 3 months

Sleeve_meet_Heart · 07-08-2009, 08:03 AM

look, we all know that 90 to 95% of the time it is not the employees fault for egress issues.

UPS will never take responsibility for these issues. As long as a slap on the wrist occurs when instances arise with OSHA it will always be the same song and dance. Blame the employee, blame the facility design etc.

It is the flow that causes egress, struck bys, strains (breaking jams), etc.
And there is nothing that can be done to change this. No grievance will change the matter. No stalking OSHA for review of policies can change this. No safety committee handing out quit smoking charts and stale muffins will change this. Even building design cannot change this. UPS will simply max out the new designs flow capacity and find new ways to create issues.

It has been, is, and will be what it has been, is, and will be.

altstewie · 07-08-2009, 09:36 AM

Thanks for the replys. I follow Tie's method of cleaning it up. Im a loader not a preloader. So packages come down a slide towards me. Alot of times they fall off the slide on the way down. Thats how the egress starts. But the guy isn't following the correct method. He doesnt want the buzzer to go off and overcrowd the jackpots. (The place where the overflow of packages that cant go down the full slide from all the other trailers on the belt.)

Anyways when i work. I keep my area clean, I dont care if the buzzer is going off, I just want my area to came in compliance with the law, yeah i might look bad and slow doing it but its the safe way. The combo guy who is having the egress problem doesnt want to look bad and get managements attention with the buzzer going off.

Its funny, egress problems dont get managements attention but when a stupid buzzer goes off saying a chute is full then management is right on top of it.

I like danny advice the problem is, I only see the guys egress problems on break or when i go to the bathroom which is out of my work area. Being how sneaky ups is, if i left my work area to go help him clean up his egress, they would most likely try to get me with some kind of leaving the job or some kind of crap like that.

tieguy · 07-08-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by altstewie

Thanks for the replys. I follow Tie's method of cleaning it up. Im a loader not a preloader. So packages come down a slide towards me. Alot of times they fall off the slide on the way down. Thats how the egress starts. But the guy isn't following the correct method. He doesnt want the buzzer to go off and overcrowd the jackpots. (The place where the overflow of packages that cant go down the full slide from all the other trailers on the belt.)

Anyways when i work. I keep my area clean, I dont care if the buzzer is going off, I just want my area to came in compliance with the law, yeah i might look bad and slow doing it but its the safe way. The combo guy who is having the egress problem doesnt want to look bad and get managements attention with the buzzer going off.

Its funny, egress problems dont get managements attention but when a stupid buzzer goes off saying a chute is full then management is right on top of it.

I like danny advice the problem is, I only see the guys egress problems on break or when i go to the bathroom which is out of my work area. Being how sneaky ups is, if i left my work area to go help him clean up his egress, they would most likely try to get me with some kind of leaving the job or some kind of crap like that.

If you feel you can't help out someone near you then thats a problem management has created.

dannyboy · 07-08-2009, 06:55 PM

Stew

Tie has a hard time with understanding what some management is like elsewhere. He is a decent person, usually

as long as there is not a dill somewhere.

The issues lies with management that is only interested in getting the flow out of the building and into the trucks all within 3 hours or so.

As a steward in your building, you are in a position to change things. get with your business agent to make sure you are not sticking your neck out without his support (yes, there are some business agents that are a rubber stamp for the company). IF he does not support you, then go to the national.

You cant change UPS worldwide, but you can change your little part of it.

d

drewed · 07-13-2009, 12:18 PM

The first thing you should do is bring it to the attention of the worker, because unless the supervisor is standing there next to you, your leaving a unsafe enviroment to tell a supervisor about it, the here and now safety should take precedent over the underlying issue. Not saying the underlying issue doesnt need to be fixed but the direct safety of your coworkers should be the first concern.

tieguy · 07-14-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Stew

Tie has a hard time with understanding what some management is like elsewhere. He is a decent person, usually

as long as there is not a dill somewhere.

The issues lies with management that is only interested in getting the flow out of the building and into the trucks all within 3 hours or so.

As a steward in your building, you are in a position to change things. get with your business agent to make sure you are not sticking your neck out without his support (yes, there are some business agents that are a rubber stamp for the company). IF he does not support you, then go to the national.

You cant change UPS worldwide, but you can change your little part of it.

d

Danny I appreciate the support but I'm not all that sheltered from reality.

I think I understand the egress issue pretty well. You start filing grievance on management for egress and their going to start hammering hourlys who they feel are not doing their job in keeping the aisles clean.

soberups · 07-14-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

Danny I appreciate the support but I'm not all that sheltered from reality.

I think I understand the egress issue pretty well. You start filing grievance on management for egress and their going to start hammering hourlys who they feel are not doing their job in keeping the aisles clean.

God forbid we actually solve the problem...I guess its a lot easier (and cheaper) to just bust balls and pretend we are doing something about it.