Contract Book for Management - Brown Cafe

Hoaxster · 10-09-2009, 05:01 PM

I was just thinking back to when I was in the district in and around operations. I can not recall ever having a copy of the contract or even having read the contract.
Do any of management in operations spend any time reading and understanding the contract?

ol'browneye · 10-09-2009, 05:36 PM

Apparently not!

cachsux · 10-09-2009, 06:14 PM

I believe the contract management follows is stored in roll form in the bathroom.

brownrodster · 10-09-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

I was just thinking back to when I was in the district in and around operations. I can not recall ever having a copy of the contract or even having read the contract.
Do any of management in operations spend any time reading and understanding the contract?

I've had newly minted part time sups who did not even know what a union contract was.

Our office has a copy of the contract in a file cabinet. One PT sup of mine started reading it after a year as a supervisor. He was sick of the old steward barking at him and started studying the contract.

hurricanegunner · 10-09-2009, 09:20 PM

Why would they bother to learn something they don't honor?

pemanager · 10-09-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

I was just thinking back to when I was in the district in and around operations. I can not recall ever having a copy of the contract or even having read the contract.
Do any of management in operations spend any time reading and understanding the contract?

I'm not operations management, but I have read the IAM agreement in its entirety. I've also read Teamster contract portions relavant to mechanics and porters who are Teamsters. Believe it or not, I also read the Teamsters 705's when Red posted it during the negotiations.

BLACKBOX · 10-10-2009, 12:33 AM

I wouldn't doubt that Managers eyes would glaze over just the thought of studying the contract book in its entirety. It would be up to the shop steward to point out the violation in question in order to get their attention.

It's not unusual for management to think that any valid grieve is a petty inconvenience.

UPSer21 · 10-10-2009, 12:42 AM

Yes, I have a copy of it. Actually quite a few I believe. My copy is a small tan book that goes through the entire contract. I didn't know anything in the contract until I eventually realized that if you don't know it... the higher seniority people will walk all over you with contract mumbo jumbo. So i found that it is better to know the contract. After reading it through it, the biggest impression that I got was this... "I will not be responsible for anything but service, and even then I shall be granted 9 lives." Talk about accountability huh!

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

It's not unusual for management to think that any valid grieve is a petty inconvenience.

That makes sense in the larger scope of their job.

tarbar66 · 10-10-2009, 07:56 AM

The only time I would see management with a contract book was during a greivance hearing or if a driver would hand it to them and have a section highlighted to make a point before filing a grievance.

over9five · 10-10-2009, 08:23 AM

But shouldn't all management people have a copy of the contract? Shouldn't they have to read it?

It is an agreement between the company and the union. I would think that any management person who deals with union employees would want to know what the company has agreed to.

brownmonster · 10-10-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

But shouldn't all management people have a copy of the contract? Shouldn't they have to read it?

It is an agreement between the company and the union. I would think that any management person who deals with union employees would want to know what the company has agreed to.

If mgmnt knew what the Union and the Company agreed to then they couldn't get away with doing the things they do under the guise of lack of knowledge. I think it's called playing dumb.

Phlipper · 10-10-2009, 10:14 AM

If it was not for the union steward in my department I would not have one. Our labor department does not want mgmt to have one because we might interpret it incorrectly. I think that is a BS answer and they do not want us interpreting the contract differently then their "agreements" with the local BA (i.e. Feeder Driver Bump and Roll).

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

But shouldn't all management people have a copy of the contract? Shouldn't they have to read it?

It is an agreement between the company and the union. I would think that any management person who deals with union employees would want to know what the company has agreed to.

It's really not that important in the grand scope of running an operation.

over9five · 10-10-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

It's really not that important in the grand scope of running an operation.

Perhaps not in the grand scope. But how about front line management?
I think it would at least interest a management person who deals with union employees. I would think that a professional would want to know what the company has agreed to. I would think it directly affects his operation.

scratch · 10-10-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

I think it would at least interest a management person who deals with union employees. I would think that a professional would want to know what the company has agreed to.

There you go using that thinking word again. That word is not allowed to be by either side when running an operation like ours.

over9five · 10-10-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scratch

There you go using that thinking word again. That word is not allowed to be by either side when running an operation like ours.

Good point, my bad.

ol'browneye · 10-10-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPSer21

After reading it through it, the biggest impression that I got was this... "I will not be responsible for anything but service, and even then I shall be granted 9 lives." Talk about accountability huh!

And service should be the main thing we are responsible for! After all, that used to be our last name. If we could get management to focus on service as much as most drivers do, we wouldn't need as much in that contract as there is!

And as I recall from one of your other posts on a different thread, it was safety, then service, that you focused on in your position! Kind of hypocritical to gig us for wanting the same thing isn't it?

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Perhaps not in the grand scope. But how about front line management?
I think it would at least interest a management person who deals with union employees. I would think that a professional would want to know what the company has agreed to. I would think it directly affects his operation.

Most of what comes into play is "word of mouth" ... I supervised front-line union employees and there were only 10 or so rules that I had to keep in mind. Of course, that was in Georgia (not Chicago) and pre-1997 - I understand it probably is more important now (more adversarial) and depending on where you are.

MC4YOU2 · 10-10-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Most of what comes into play is "word of mouth" ... I supervised front-line union employees and there were only 10 or so rules that I had to keep in mind. Of course, that was in Georgia (not Chicago) and pre-1997 - I understand it probably is more important now (more adversarial) and depending on where you are.

I'd agree that it depends on where you are too, although not drawn by any state boundaries. It seems more like word of mouth rules where there is little belief that there is a source for the actual language (the book) and that the word being represented by anyone in authority is the contract language.

UPS unintentionally makes good Teamsters out of those who finally question the authenticity of what they are told is the reason for a particular course of action that they find questionable. Sometimes it is the result of management contract unfamiliarity, sometimes it's the result of management contract familiarity and a desire to circumvent it.

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC4YOU2

I'd agree that it depends on where you are too, although not drawn by any state boundaries. It seems more like word of mouth rules where there is little belief that there is a source for the actual language (the book) and that the word being represented by anyone in authority is the contract language.

UPS unintentionally makes good Teamsters out of those who finally question the authenticity of what they are told is the reason for a particular course of action that they find questionable. Sometimes it is the result of management contract unfamiliarity, sometimes it's the result of management contract familiarity and a desire to circumvent it.

The contract is written by lawyers (on each side) and as lawyers do, they leave ambiguities (usually on purpose), in the language that leaves room for interpretation.
Those gray areas are where most of the angst is centered.
That is another reason I never read the contract much is because it is subject to interpretations. I used the key points in the presentations developed by UPS lawyers and UPS Labor group.
It was not really important what I thought but to manage according to how UPS instructed me to apply the contract.

705red · 10-10-2009, 06:13 PM

I thought this was a thread about ideas for a management contract? We could do some connect the dot pages, coloring by numbers, a few tic tac toe games? Just a few ideas!

MC4YOU2 · 10-10-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 705red

I thought this was a thread about ideas for a management contract? We could do some connect the dot pages, coloring by numbers, a few tic tac toe games? Just a few ideas!

Also - paint with water, scratch and sniff, where's Waldo?, and to call meetings to order the Barney sing along - I love you, you love me. My CM does that one pretty good actually.

brownmonster · 10-11-2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 705red

I thought this was a thread about ideas for a management contract? We could do some connect the dot pages, coloring by numbers, a few tic tac toe games? Just a few ideas!

Connect a dot is already being used. It's called computerized route mapping. If you look at your area trace on the computer it resembles a a clown riding an elephant.

Pump Up The Volume · 10-13-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

I was just thinking back to when I was in the district in and around operations. I can not recall ever having a copy of the contract or even having read the contract.
Do any of management in operations spend any time reading and understanding the contract?

Let's not set the bar of excellence to high here. Let's get management in operations to spend time reading and rereading the ups policybook specifically the part on integrity