2 people shot dead at UPS facility in Toulouse, France

[Failure Boy]

This morning, an OSP driver killed his boss & his boss' son during the morning operations in the UPS center of Toulouse, in the south west of France.

The guy was quitting his job today. He came at work with a hunting gun.

A major part, if not all, of October 30th operations were cancelled at this center, if I'm not wrong...as the UPS facility was the crime scene.

Seems like a complex work relation that ended up in a tragedy.
Could have happened in any other company...

Thoughts go to all those OSP & UPS drivers & people who were there when it happened.

Sad ****.

[BLACKBOX]

Our hearts go out to the family of the two who got gunned down. There is no words to explain how senseless this was. Lastly, how does one get a hunting rifle pass security?

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

Our hearts go out to the family of the two who got gunned down. There is no words to explain how senseless this was. Lastly, how does one get a hunting rifle pass security?

Security, what's that?

[brownrodster]

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

pass security?

You mean the white lines they paint for you to walk in?

A bum could sleep in our package cars on the weekend. We have no security.

UPS brand of militant management obviously didn't work in this situation. This mofo went parcel.

[rod]

France? ---- of all places

[BLACKBOX]

We actually have a guy in a booth that monitors cars going in and out. Thats the closet thing to security we have here, not to mention that he's about 70 years old.

[rod]

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

We actually have a guy in a booth that monitors cars going in and out. Thats the closet thing to security we have here, not to mention that he's about 70 years old.

Actually I know 2 dozen guys between 60 and 80 that could put the red dot right between someones eyes at 100 yards----------and wouldn't be afraid to do it given the right circumstances. Better find out if he is a 70 year old Veteran or hunter or both before you give him any static

[dilligaf]

I don't even know what to say. This is sooo sad.....................




come on guys, keep it on track here........................

[BLACKBOX]

Originally Posted by rod

Actually I know 2 dozen guys between 60 and 80 that could put the red dot right between someones eyes at 100 yards----------and wouldn't be afraid to do it given the right circumstances. Better find out if he is a 70 year old Veteran or hunter or both before you give him any static

You know I asked...he was ex-Army Infantry Vietnam Vet. This guy could pass for a Lee Emery look-a-like. Funny as hell and a hopeless romantic, ladies around here love this man.

O.K. sorry...not taking anything away from the O.P.'s tragic news.

[Failure Boy]

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

We actually have a guy in a booth that monitors cars going in and out. Thats the closet thing to security we have here, not to mention that he's about 70 years old.

Toulouse is a middle-size center, which would equal to "small" center by US standards...
I guess security there = a guy or two in a booth.

The OSP driver was driven at work by his wife...
At some point, she must have noticed something wrong...I get the feeling that the lady too is up for a very long time in prison.

According to police investigation so far :
- the OSP driver used to be the boss of the family-size OSP company.
- he sold his business to that new boss who hired him, to keep an eye on the business & the 20 drivers.
- he ended up being overworked & quitted
- he supposedly delivered some remote area called Ariège, close to the Spanish border & Pyrénées mountains

[Failure Boy]

Quite surprising as we're not really used to killings in school/workplace over here....
We're much more into "suicide at work", actually.

[UPS UK]

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy

Security, what's that?

To be fair who expects a guy who's a driver not yet finished to walk in and off his boss? No security can prevent a nutter that works for them. UPS have the open door policy... Its their right to do that.

I'd blame the push on driver leads in the UK.

[UPSviking]

Originally Posted by UPS UK

To be fair who expects a guy who's a driver not yet finished to walk in and off his boss? No security can prevent a nutter that works for them. UPS have the open door policy... Its their right to do that.

I'd blame the push on driver leads in the UK.

You are right on the first one, but i hardly see the UK sales leads playing any role in the life of French osp´s.....

R.I.P.

[UPS UK]

Originally Posted by UPSviking

You are right on the first one, but i hardly see the UK sales leads playing any role in the life of French osp´s.....

R.I.P.

My apols... it was meant in a way as a comparison. UPS put stress on their employees all the way through the system in the UK. Drivers have their routes to plan according to what drops they have, if they are cover drivers they need to learn the routes and put a few extra hours on their day to get around. Then some genius in an office says you HAVE to pull in 10-20-30 driver leads per week and log them. More hours on their day. Bonus linked to timed drops that if you miss them you are in trouble too. What I am trying to say is that if they have the same system in France, working to the same imposed stress levels and being pushed all the time you can see how a person can snap. One possible scenario could be this... The driver could have a young family of his own... The driver could be looking at being out of work for Christmas at a time when works not easy to come by in Europe. The driver might have done his best and failed only to be let go. We get these orders from above and carry them out with a threat of unemployment if we don't. The people above need to understand that we have limits, but the UPS way is to stretch you to them to see what you can do.

This is a case where limits have been stretched and the individual has snapped. I am devastated for the family of the depot manager and his son, but his family will never really know why it happened. If the above conditions sound familiar in your part of UPS let me know, it'd be good to compare. We have gone from wrapping individuals in cotton wool to threatening them with their job if they fail. If UPS continue down this road it WILL happen again. Another Toulouse, another town but the same cause and reason.

[UPSviking]

I agree with you that the pressure is mounting, at our former Scandinavian heaven the pressure is on as well (no timed bonus here).

But at the end of the day it´s just an job, and my bet is that guy was just an timebomb that would have gone of sooner or later anyway.

I think our American buddys have had the pressure on for years, the reason we are felling the heat now, atleast in my opinion, is that all the managers we have comming back from the states, where they have been trained in the US way of doing things.

At my center the accident policy and warning policy is the same as in the states, even if it violates our local work law.

[Failure Boy]

Originally Posted by UPS UK

I am devastated for the family of the depot manager and his son

Just to make it clear : The OSP driver shot his own boss (the OSP boss was 60 or so) & the son's boss (who might be the leam leader or just driver for that OSP company, whatever).

A work relation tragedy that took place in the UPS center at 7.00 AM.

[UPS UK]

Originally Posted by UPSviking

I agree with you that the pressure is mounting, at our former Scandinavian heaven the pressure is on as well (no timed bonus here).

But at the end of the day it´s just an job, and my bet is that guy was just an timebomb that would have gone of sooner or later anyway.

I think our American buddys have had the pressure on for years, the reason we are felling the heat now, atleast in my opinion, is that all the managers we have comming back from the states, where they have been trained in the US way of doing things.

At my center the accident policy and warning policy is the same as in the states, even if it violates our local work law.

I agree. I have been in sales over 20 years though and have known pressure much worse than UPS can give. They promote from within even in Business Development. Perhaps not the best policy for sales. I am happy with my results, 19th in europe for ISE's in my first full year in a not too busy part of the uk. Its earned me 1/4 coverage of London for the Olympic games till after 2012- which i am sure you all heard about at work. Many problems are caused by the SPIN they teach managers. Its a psychological tool that should not be given in part to attain results. They do not think about the adverse effects its has nor do they teach managers how to deal with them.

[UPS UK]

Originally Posted by Failure Boy

Just to make it clear : The OSP driver shot his own boss (the OSP boss was 60 or so) & the son's boss (who might be the leam leader or just driver for that OSP company, whatever).

A work relation tragedy that took place in the UPS center at 7.00 AM.

Not sure what they pay OSP's in France but I have one that covers most of my area and they get around 1 euro per parcel.

I thought it was just an OSP driver, not OSP setup as well. It could have been a long running feud. The French do not forget things -as you know. Because they are not direct employees of UPS does not mean they worth any less as human beings. They still drive the brown vans with our logo. (In England they do anyhow).

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by UPS UK

UPS have the open door policy... Its their right to do that.

open door policy - This does not literally mean having open doors.

UPS open door policy means that anyone in the company has the right to talk to anyone at any level in the company about a problem, an idea or anything basically. One is expected to talk to one's immediate supervisor/manager first unless the issue is that person.

[UPS UK]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

open door policy - This does not literally mean having open doors.

UPS open door policy means that anyone in the company has the right to talk to anyone at any level in the company about a problem, an idea or anything basically. One is expected to talk to one's immediate supervisor/manager first unless the issue is that person.

Cheers Hoaxster - I'll rephrase that. They have the right to approach their managers about "...a problem, an idea.." etc so with there not being a massive chain of command in depots it would not be seen as suspicious by a security person for a driver to approach their manager. I was referring to the O/D policy in this sense, not literally. In BD we have the O/D policy thoroughly explained but when we find a flaw in something its amazing how many doors are actually closed

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by UPS UK

Cheers Hoaxster - In BD we have the O/D policy thoroughly explained but when we find a flaw in something its amazing how many doors are actually closed

Cheers back ... I guess I misinterpreted the "security" reference.

I agree, Open Door Policy is a theoretical concept but most people I have worked with actually tried to comply with the spirit of the policy.

[UPS UK]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Cheers back ... I guess I misinterpreted the "security" reference.

I agree, Open Door Policy is a theoretical concept but most people I have worked with actually tried to comply with the spirit of the policy.

I'm typical English sir... Waffle on and just expect people to understand what I'm talking about. I like the pictures on your profile. Due to the nature of this topic I'll find a more appropriate thread to chat to you on but it will be later now I guess. I'm stuck in with my 2 little girls (22 months, and 3-1/2 and I need to take them to get fed. This is the reason we should always love our mothers the most, she'll get 3 visitors soon

Catch you later H.

[hdkappler]

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

Our hearts go out to the family of the two who got gunned down. There is no words to explain how senseless this was. Lastly, how does one get a hunting rifle pass security?

my heart also goes out to the victiams family.what security?never had security at peoria,il center unlss things have changed since i retired.

[losing the plot]

Hello,

I hope you don’t mind me intruding, you see I’m, not a UPS employee.

I’m a customer.

I’m one of E**’s customers, because it is E*** about which you are having this discussion.

I know that it is not done in society to say anything positive about a person who has committed a crime of this nature, after all he must have been a monster - no? And I cannot and do not condone the taking of another life, and I send my sincere condolences to the families of the boss and his son, but I’d like to tell you about the man. Your colleague in the brown shirt.

I have experience of being a UPS customer in both the UK and France and E*** was the first driver who made me appreciate the UPS brand as superior in every way – he even started me using UPS instead of just receiving parcels.

I’ve never known a driver before with such a ready smile. When he was on the road, he just never had an off-day, despite the fact in many cases he’d just come up a kilometre of single track packed ice and snow, he’d have me grinning like a fool within seconds. He always knew my name and greeted me as a long lost friend. I really looked forward to getting or sending a UPS delivery. To me he was UPS.

He covered an area that is both mountainous and very, very rural. The Ariege in the French Pyrenees is no easy patch, and although I have never done your job I would imagine that here it is nigh on impossible to get a timed delivery anywhere on time, keeping the customer must have called for masterful diplomacy. The roads here are mainly B roads that would classify as C roads or less in England, in the USA I think your front drive would be wider. In winter the cold, sheet ice and snow can be brutal, reducing cars to a crawl, even with winter tyres, and in summer it can go above 40 degrees turning any van into a sauna.

I once drove to the town in which he was based: It took me two hours and that was out of rush hour and I am not at the limit of his patch, he ran an hour beyond my village. Yet he would still be on this part of his patch at 17.30hrs getting those last minute collections that I am sure you will all know well. He was a familiar sight in this area and was truly loved by all that he served and knew, and he knew many, many hundreds of people.

Just as a ‘for instance’ once a week he would eat in the local restaurant and they would take his order by phone and have it on the table for him when he pulled in, knowing that he could only spare 20 minutes to eat in an area where everything closes at 12.30 and reopens at 14.00. He used this time to deliver to private addresses.

This was an exceptional man, a man I would have, and still would, trust with my children. It saddens me that his employers put him under such pressure that this mild mannered individual could snap and feel that his only recourse was this drastic, drastic action, one which he knew would result in the tragic deaths of others and cost him the liberty that he treasured, for the rest of his natural life.

The only hard facts I have came from the local paper: He had been offered a new job and they needed him to start in 8 weeks. There was clearly friction in the office that he reported to - he was told by his boss that he would be made to serve every day of his mandatory three months notice. He would not be released early under any circumstances. The other job offer was held open but they needed somebody in 8 weeks, reluctantly, they’d have to start recruiting. He wasn’t young, the opportunities for other work must have been few. In this part of France if you’re over thirty five you’re over the hill.

He loved UPS and he loved his customers and they loved him back. He was a shining example of what service can and should be, in a country where lacklustre service and a couldn’t care less attitude, sadly is the norm.

I’ll miss him and if he ever is released from prison, I’d employ him tomorrow.

Thanks for reading, guys. God bless you all.
And E***, I’ll miss you.
We all will.

God Speed my friend.

[UPSviking]

Wow.... I don´t know what to say, Thank you for your side of the story i guess.