$2.50 Pension Increase for the Southwest is a Farce!

[Hawfuh Sux]

The $2.50 pension increase over the life of the 5 year regressive Tentative Agreement does not add up in the Southwest Package Rider Supplemental Agreement. For example full-time UPS Teamsters in the Southwest currently get $9.60 contributed into their pensions per hour. Upon ratification of this agreement, the Southwest will only see it rise to $9.85. As you can see that's only a $0.25 increase and not the $0.50 the IBT has been implying. When this question was raised, my BA stated that the other $0.25 were going into the development of TEAMCARE.

Its only in the second and third years of the Southwest Rider that members get the $.50 cent pension increase per year.

However, there is no guaranty that we will receive any contributions on the fourth and fifth years. The Southwest Rider language for 8/1/2016 and 8/1/2017 reads "the pension increase will be in accordance with Article 34 of the National Master Agreement and will be between $0.00 and $0.50, which will be added to the contribution rate of $10.85 per hour."

Article 34 of the National Master Agreement reads "TBD based on Central States' Cost" in the years 2016 and 2017.


In other words, us in the Southwest are only being guaranteed to get $1.25 pension increase over 5 years and not $2.50.

Why hasn't this issue been addressed by the company friendly and pro-Hoffa/Hall camp?

 

[balland chain]

The $2.50 pension increase over the life of the 5 year regressive Tentative Agreement does not add up in the Southwest Package Rider Supplemental Agreement. For example full-time UPS Teamsters in the Southwest currently get $9.60 contributed into their pensions per hour. Upon ratification of this agreement, the Southwest will only see it rise to $9.85. As you can see that's only a $0.25 increase and not the $0.50 the IBT has been implying. When this question was raised, my BA stated that the other $0.25 were going into the development of TEAMCARE.

Its only in the second and third years of the Southwest Rider that members get the $.50 cent pension increase per year.

However, there is no guaranty that we will receive any contributions on the fourth and fifth years. The Southwest Rider language for 8/1/2016 and 8/1/2017 reads "the pension increase will be in accordance with Article 34 of the National Master Agreement and will be between $0.00 and $0.50, which will be added to the contribution rate of $10.85 per hour."

Article 34 of the National Master Agreement reads "TBD based on Central States' Cost" in the years 2016 and 2017.


In other words, us in the Southwest are only being guaranteed to get $1.25 pension increase over 5 years and not $2.50.

Why hasn't this issue been addressed by the company friendly and pro-Hoffa/Hall camp?

This whole pension/healthcare mess was shoved down our throats for one reason. The Teamsters want to bail out Central States again with the money they get from UPS to give us health insurance. I would make any bet, with anybody out there. Any money that Central states can get their hands on they will. They will claim that additional monies will be needed to cover our insurance on top of what UPS will be paying. This additional money will go to the failing pension that CS has run into the ground. The entire board of directors, and all the financial advisors should get fired. Too much money has gone missing, and the teamsters know it. This is their attempt to milk UPS out of more money, on top of the Billions they received five years ago. Allowing CS to control our healthcare is just another stupid decision by the union. Heck, look at the state of the pension. How could the union allow this , well they want to keep giving those other teamster trucking companies the same pension we get ( to keep members), and the company they work for puts substantially less in towards the pension than what UPS was putting in there. This contract will be my last, and it will be the big screw job from the union that I have supported for 26 years. Bad enough we get screwed by UPS, now the union is in on it..

 

[Hawfuh Sux]

Now in the Southwest, we have Andy M, Ron H and RANDY C lying to the members that there's nothing we can do about our healthcare. Their saying that the members misunderstood what they were voting on. That we have no option but to go into TEAMcare--but when they held the meetings at the locals out here they lied through their teeth that they were working on a carve-out for the WEST and that we needed to vote YES because we risked losing the Memorandum of Understanding we had with UPS until November 1st. Even if we came out with the carve-out HOFFA was never going to honor it.

Now their gonna try to push a second vote without going back to the table. We will vote NO for the second time.

The biggest problem now is that we are fighting two fronts, UPS and the Teamsters.

The situation for the Central States is a disaster. In 2007 the Central States Pension Fund was over 70% funded, today its just over 50%.

Hoffa and Hall know very well that the Central States Pension Fund will not survive the next 5 years if they don't merge the 140,000 of us on company health-plans to into TEAMCARE.

Its pathetic that they want to put their fiscal corruption and incompetence on our backs.

We will continue to vote NO in the Southwest and possibly have to file a lawsuit against the IBT for trying to railroad us into accepting their sellout.

A lawsuit was already filed against them on behalf of the thousands of members that never received ballots.

 

[Anonymous 10]

Now in the Southwest, we have Andy M, Ron H and RANDY C lying to the members that there's nothing we can do about our healthcare. Their saying that the members misunderstood what they were voting on. That we have no option but to go into TEAMcare--but when they held the meetings at the locals out here they lied through their teeth that they were working on a carve-out for the WEST and that we needed to vote YES because we risked losing the Memorandum of Understanding we had with UPS until November 1st. Even if we came out with the carve-out HOFFA was never going to honor it.

Now their gonna try to push a second vote without going back to the table. We will vote NO for the second time.

The biggest problem now is that we are fighting two fronts, UPS and the Teamsters.

The situation for the Central States is a disaster. In 2007 the Central States Pension Fund was over 70% funded, today its just over 50%.

Hoffa and Hall know very well that the Central States Pension Fund will not survive the next 5 years if they don't merge the 140,000 of us on company health-plans to into TEAMCARE.

Its pathetic that they want to put their fiscal corruption and incompetence on our backs.

We will continue to vote NO in the Southwest and possibly have to file a lawsuit against the IBT for trying to railroad us into accepting their sellout.

A lawsuit was already filed against them on behalf of the thousands of members that never received ballots.

Hey Einstein the central states pension fund and the central states healthcare fund are two seperate funds that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[PT Car Washer]

Hey Einstein the central states pension fund and the central states healthcare fund are two seperate funds that have nothing to do with each other.

You would not believe the number of people that do not understand the difference.

 

[104Feeder]

There will be a carve out plan and it will be approved. It only has to be as good at C6 Enhanced but it will be better & we will have a Summary Plan Description before we vote. The Company has no interest in disapproving the plan, and Hoffa/Hall are on board. By voting down all 3 CBA's in the West we assured our chance at controlling our own destiny.

The first year more is going to H&W to establish the fund, and $.05 to restore Post 65 coverage (which is very important) so only $9.85 to Pension the first year ($7.85 part time).

2nd & 3rd years the plan is to keep it at $.50/$.50

5th & 6th years are open, but the Company has committed to $1.01 & $1.14 so more can go to H&W if needed. There is a provision that allows members to vote to divert some of the general wage increase to Pension, so if necessary we can vote to do so those years, or any year, to divert more of the $1, $1.01, $1.14 to H&W. In no way will we allow our Pension to go unfunded or underfunded, and we are at 94% funded now. Best run pension fund in the Nation hands down. It's unreal that we basically have a part-timer following us around putting money into our Pension fund.

The carve out allows us to control our own destiny as that was lost with the passage of the National Master. Our local control over H&W is most likely gone forever. I urge you to allow Andy M to develop his carve out plan prior to your condemning the whole crew.

 

[Ms.PacMan]

Hey Einstein the central states pension fund and the central states healthcare fund are two seperate funds that have nothing to do with each other.

It was you and Stink that created that confusion. Every time I posted about the dangers of the Teamsters diverting future raises and pension contributions into Teamcare, should Teamcare become underfunded - you two would post that the pension and Teamcare were different.

For the confused.... Teamcare and the pensions are different. HOWEVER - should Teamcare become underfunded in the future - FUTURE raises and money negotiated for contributions for ANY Teamster pension can be diverted into the Teamcare fund to fix the insolvency. CS pension is already toast but other pension funds could be in danger if future contributions are diverted to Teamcare.

Will the CS Teamsters be responsible with that money? Most Upsers fear they won't given their history with the CS pension fund.

 

[no_map_needed]

yay a brain! chomp chomp

 

[Hawfuh Sux]

Hey Einstein the central states pension fund and the central states healthcare fund are two seperate funds that have nothing to do with each other.

Yes, I'm aware that the pension and healthcare funds are two separate funds.

However, the TEAMCARE fund they had planned to develop would have left them a lot of money to play with at the end of each month. For example, big entities that provide healthcare for their constituency get a fat check either at the end of each month, quarter or year. The addition of 140,000 members into TEAMCARE would have amounted to millions of dollars a year in kickbacks from the insurance companies. That was money the IBT planned to pump into the Central States Pension Fund.

407 Steward, I don't know how many years you have in the Teamsters but the Central States Pension Fund will most likely not survive the next 5 years if those 140,000 company plan members don't get merged into TEAMCARE aka Central States and Health and Welfare Fund.

If that carve-out that's in the works in the Southwest gets done by the end of this month and voted in by mid August, you folks in the Central States can kiss your retirements good-bye.

407 Steward, you guys in the Central States are gonna bottom-out before this contract is done.

Are you not worried?

 

[Anonymous 10]

Yes, I'm aware that the pension and healthcare funds are two separate funds.

However, the TEAMCARE fund they had planned to develop would have left them a lot of money to play with at the end of each month. For example, big entities that provide healthcare for their constituency get a fat check either at the end of each month, quarter or year. The addition of 140,000 members into TEAMCARE would have amounted to millions of dollars a year in kickbacks from the insurance companies. That was money the IBT planned to pump into the Central States Pension Fund.

407 Steward, I don't know how many years you have in the Teamsters but the Central States Pension Fund will most likely not survive the next 5 years if those 140,000 company plan members don't get merged into TEAMCARE aka Central States and Health and Welfare Fund.

If that carve-out that's in the works in the Southwest gets done by the end of this month and voted in by mid August, you folks in the Central States can kiss your retirements good-bye.

407 Steward, you guys in the Central States are gonna bottom-out before this contract is done.

Are you not worried?

no Einstein because I'm in the Ibt / Ups 103.61% funded pension plan now. Maybe you've just woke up from the year 2001 but we in the central region aren't in the pension an anymore. You need to find other sorces of union information than TDU. We got out of that plan in 2007. I get those letters in the mail and I don't even think about it because it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Anonymous 10]

It was you and Stink that created that confusion. Every time I posted about the dangers of the Teamsters diverting future raises and pension contributions into Teamcare, should Teamcare become underfunded - you two would post that the pension and Teamcare were different.

For the confused.... Teamcare and the pensions are different. HOWEVER - should Teamcare become underfunded in the future - FUTURE raises and money negotiated for contributions for ANY Teamster pension can be diverted into the Teamcare fund to fix the insolvency. CS pension is already toast but other pension funds could be in danger if future contributions are diverted to Teamcare.

Will the CS Teamsters be responsible with that money? Most Upsers fear they won't given their history with the CS pension fund.

Those funds are separate Einsteins daughter. The cs healthcare fund has 13 months in reserve. This is unmatched in the industry. Cs healthcare is always more than funded. As far as the cs pension plan every multi employe pension fund took a crap after 911 and got worse with the two big resession after. To many trucking company's went out of business and stopped funding the plan. Any multi employer fund is set up for the same doom. Get your facts straight.

 

[Hawfuh Sux]

There will be a carve out plan and it will be approved. It only has to be as good at C6 Enhanced but it will be better & we will have a Summary Plan Description before we vote. The Company has no interest in disapproving the plan, and Hoffa/Hall are on board. By voting down all 3 CBA's in the West we assured our chance at controlling our own destiny.

The first year more is going to H&W to establish the fund, and $.05 to restore Post 65 coverage (which is very important) so only $9.85 to Pension the first year ($7.85 part time).

2nd & 3rd years the plan is to keep it at $.50/$.50

5th & 6th years are open, but the Company has committed to $1.01 & $1.14 so more can go to H&W if needed. There is a provision that allows members to vote to divert some of the general wage increase to Pension, so if necessary we can vote to do so those years, or any year, to divert more of the $1, $1.01, $1.14 to H&W. In no way will we allow our Pension to go unfunded or underfunded, and we are at 94% funded now. Best run pension fund in the Nation hands down. It's unreal that we basically have a part-timer following us around putting money into our Pension fund.

The carve out allows us to control our own destiny as that was lost with the passage of the National Master. Our local control over H&W is most likely gone forever. I urge you to allow Andy M to develop his carve out plan prior to your condemning the whole crew.

104 Feeder,

The carve-out is currently being looked at by actuaries. They are still trying to find out how much each member is going to be paying and if we’re gonna be able to give our retirees a better deal than the $300 a month they would have been paying under TEAMCARE.

As a matter of fact the company never disapproved the creation of our own health-fund. And you are dead wrong that Hoffa and Hall are on board with the Southwest. It was their idea to ram this up our azzes as they were never gonna honor the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). Do you really think hall, who is looking to run for the union’s top position wants to carry the pressure of the Central States Pension Fund fiasco into the 2016 Teamsters Election? By the time the election comes, the Central States Pension will be close to extinct.

 

[stink219]

You would not believe the number of people that do not understand the difference.

I'm beginning to believe.

 

[stink219]

It was you and Stink that created that confusion. Every time I posted about the dangers of the Teamsters diverting future raises and pension contributions into Teamcare, should Teamcare become underfunded - you two would post that the pension and Teamcare were different.

For the confused.... Teamcare and the pensions are different. HOWEVER - should Teamcare become underfunded in the future - FUTURE raises and money negotiated for contributions for ANY Teamster pension can be diverted into the Teamcare fund to fix the insolvency. CS pension is already toast but other pension funds could be in danger if future contributions are diverted to Teamcare.

Will the CS Teamsters be responsible with that money? Most Upsers fear they won't given their history with the CS pension fund.

I seriously doubt that we created confusion. You seem to do a heck of a job on your own based upon your post. You leave out a bunch of info in your scare tactic. Why don't you explain the difference between the pension and health a bit better. Explain that the healthcare is a bill and pension is an investment. Can you explain why the healthcare would be underfunded? It's really only one reason.

 

[Ms.PacMan]

Those funds are separate Einsteins daughter. The cs healthcare fund has 13 months in reserve. This is unmatched in the industry. Cs healthcare is always more than funded. As far as the cs pension plan every multi employe pension fund took a crap after 911 and got worse with the two big resession after. To many trucking company's went out of business and stopped funding the plan. Any multi employer fund is set up for the same doom. Get your facts straight.

I know they are separate. Where did I say they are combined? Once again you cause the confusion.

 

[Ms.PacMan]

Can you explain why the healthcare would be underfunded? It's really only one reason.

What's the one reason you see? At least I'm glad you admit that there is at least one reason Teamcare could become underfunded. ONE REASON IS TOO MANY IF IT COULD ENDANGER FUTURE CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PENSION. After you tell us the underfunding issue that you think is possible then explain how the CS Teamsters plan on fixing the insolvency - *hint* I've already posted it many times.

Just like raises are now being diverted to underfunded Teamster pensions like in New England - Teamcare would be able to use raises (and the scary one) future pension contributions and put that money into Teamcare instead of into that Upsers pension plan or in the case of raises, into the paycheck.

 

[stink219]

What's the one reason you see? At least I'm glad you admit that there is at least one reason Teamcare could become underfunded. ONE REASON IS TOO MANY IF IT COULD ENDANGER FUTURE CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PENSION.

These 3 sentences are the exact reason that YOU confuse people.

After you tell us the underfunding issue that you think is possible then explain how the CS Teamsters plan on fixing the insolvency - *hint* I've already posted it many times.

Just like raises are now being diverted to underfunded Teamster pensions like in New England - Teamcare would be able to use raises (and the scary one) future pension contributions and put that money into Teamcare instead of into that Upsers pension plan or in the case of raises, into the paycheck.

Excuse me missy, I'm in the New England pension fund. Do you know how many of our raises went in? ZERO! ZERO (incase you didn't hear me)!! Why would you outright lie right now? The clause of diverting raises into the fund is a safety net. You for some reason think it shouldn't exist in some sort of a conspiracy against the people. Where would the money come from if the investments go down the tubes? This clause is to prevent a CS issue in the future. EVERY pension fund took a hit over the years even beyond the teamster funds.
And to answer the original question for you, the only reason would be IF the bill for C6 goes up beyond $2080.00 per year per person. And at the buying power of 140,000 people, that ain't happening. Here in local 251 we saved $5,000,000.00 with buying power of only 6000 people.
Do you understand this?

 

[Ms.PacMan]

Excuse me missy, I'm in the New England pension fund. Do you know how many of our raises went in? ZERO! ZERO (incase you didn't hear me)!! Why would you outright lie right now? The clause of diverting raises into the fund is a safety net. You for some reason think it shouldn't exist in some sort of a conspiracy against the people. Where would the money come from if the investments go down the tubes? This clause is to prevent a CS issue in the future. EVERY pension fund took a hit over the years even beyond the teamster funds.
And to answer the original question for you, the only reason would be IF the bill for C6 goes up beyond $2080.00 per year per person. And at the buying power of 140,000 people, that ain't happening. Here in local 251 we saved $5,000,000.00 with buying power of only 6000 people.
Do you understand this?

Enough with the missy and the junior tactics. This doesn't make you sound older and wiser...

It wasn't meant to be a lie or misleading - but there is a fund that's frequently talked about by Upstate on BC and their raises are going towards their pensions.

Even you admit there is a clause to divert money as a safety net. The fact that it isn't just a clause that diverts raises but also includes pension money is the alarming part. That is not safe.

It would actually be greater than 140,000 people. 140,000 is only UPS. Can you tell me how many other people and from what employers are currently in the CS fund? Why is the current C6 plan is so much worse than the UPS plan? Roughly 40% of union Upsers have UPS insurance. 60% have Teamster insurance - why isn't that plan better now?

 

[stink219]

It wasn't meant to be a lie or misleading - but there is a fund that's frequently talked about by Upstate on BC and their raises are going towards their pensions.

UpstateNY is in NY. He and his state are not part of NE. He was speaking of a vote they had to divert a portion of their raise to the pension. What would be a better option? Lose pension accrual? ENE pension went up 20% in a year, a year. I would sign my 3.90 raises in a second for further growth.

Even you admit there is a clause to divert money as a safety net. The fact that it isn't just a clause that diverts raises but also includes pension money is the alarming part. That is not safe.

I have no idea of where your logic is formed? Not safe? A safety net is for that reason. Do you have a better plan in mind? Please don't say keep the UPS health plan. UPS doesn't want you anymore. Their plan was to get rid of you either through teamsters or having you pay out the nose. So trust me, your $10 copay is a walk in the park. Your still leaps and bounds ahead of anyone out there.

It would actually be greater than 140,000 people. 140,000 is only UPS. Can you tell me how many other people and from what employers are currently in the CS fund? Why is the current C6 plan is so much worse than the UPS plan? Roughly 40% of union Upsers have UPS insurance. 60% have Teamster insurance - why isn't that plan better now?

You also forgot to ask how many of these outside UPS Teamsters have to pay for a portion of their insurance. Your now asking 2 questions and trying to mean the same thing. Ask specifically what you want to be said. I'll get back to after I enjoy my Saturday of not slinging cardboard. Also, some of these other people I will end with this, I've had Teamster Insurance for 18 years, EVERY YEAR our plan has improved. We have never regressed.

 

[brown_trousers]

It would actually be greater than 140,000 people. 140,000 is only UPS. Can you tell me how many other people and from what employers are currently in the CS fund? Why is the current C6 plan is so much worse than the UPS plan? Roughly 40% of union Upsers have UPS insurance. 60% have Teamster insurance - why isn't that plan better now?

For most of UPS, the divide in healthcare plans was simply PT vs FT. Most PTers were on company plans while FTers were on teamster plans.

So if you look at it from a cost standpoint, FTers on the teamster plans were recieving much more than PTers. The reason is.... the cost to insure a bunch of young kids (PTers) that rarely see a doctor is much cheaper than to insure the older demographic (FTers) that see the doctor on a regular basis and recieve costly medical procedures that come with old age.

The teamster healthcare plans were MUCH more valuable plans than the company plans, even considering the lower coverage those teamster plans provided.