2012 Pay band.......
- Thread starter smokey
- Start date
Catatonic
Nine Lives
UPS has temporarily delayed the implementation since many non-ops management people are underpaid in comparison to the industry average. It would cost the company too much money to implement and they are considering waiting until after the contract with the Teamsters is completed.
Hoax.... being that it has already been implemented in the Pkg/Hub, it should have been rolled out at the same time. Retro pay for the NON ops folks? Since our other partners have received the benefits of a 2 year head start on pay bands? Compounding our loses or potential income further is very inconsistent. Additionally, UPSers.com states 2012 is when it will be re-evaluated, but the contract is not up for negotiations until 2013?
Bucket of Boltz
Active Member
According to my sources:
1) The Base Pay Plan will be implemented in 2012 in all but a few selected business units
2) Do not anticipate any retro pay for non-ops people.
3) UPS non-ops management people are not underpaid in comparison to the "industry average". The UPS incentive plan far exceeds the competitors up through the level of Region Staff level.
1) The Base Pay Plan will be implemented in 2012 in all but a few selected business units
2) Do not anticipate any retro pay for non-ops people.
3) UPS non-ops management people are not underpaid in comparison to the "industry average". The UPS incentive plan far exceeds the competitors up through the level of Region Staff level.
FracusBrown
Ponies and Planes
Pay and compensation reductions are likely to continue for most positions. As long as they can take away compensation without significantly affecting turnover, the cuts will continue. Turnover is still relatively low for most positions. In an open market, when people aren't compensated at their level of worth, they seek other employment. When people of various positions start leaving in significant numbers the company will know they have reached, or slightly dipped below, the elusive "industry standard." Until then, it's likely we'll see further reductions.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Turnover is not the only consideration.
People are not trying as hard and don't do anything outside their direct responsibilities.
UPS is losing a lot of productivity and management concern about the company.
Once the economy turns, many will leave the company but maybe that's what is desired.
FracusBrown
Ponies and Planes
Agreed. Unfortunately, often positives (savings) are exaggerated and negatives (losses or unplanned expenses) are ignored. Payroll dollars are easy to track on a balance sheet. Productivity, concern, and dedication are nearly impossible to measure accurately, especially in the short term.
(off topic just venting hoax)
How does someone that has lead there team to met and exceed MAR on the BSC (yes for the past two years) not be fairly compensated. Corp has mandated freezes on pay grade increase and pay bands..... I cant even give my FT sups the full % increase they rightfully deserve.....Corp finance has only planned a 3% increase spread. Post consolidation Ive asked my guys to go above and beyond the call of duty... Actions plans, follow ups, pre planning, forecasting, drive, shuttle.
Just a little frustrated come 2012 when I review their QPR's.... and say thanks for the great job your results exceed Corp MAR. Here is your 3% raise, I would love to give you more but....... Ive only got a 3% bucket spread to work with.
UPS
FracusBrown
Ponies and Planes
...and the worst division gets the same 3%. The best division gets 3%. The worst division gets 3%.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Socialism?
whatwasithinking
Member
This % raise always bothers me...I could be the best (mgr,sup, any level) and my raise will be roughly 3-4% and I could be the worst and my raise (unless I really screwed up) would be roughly 2-3%. Big fricking deal. The only incentive to do well is your own pride and service to our customers, or to get promoted. Nowadays, who really wants to get promoted and deal with the grief that your mgr has to deal with?? Maybe it's just unique in my part of the country, but I certainly don't want their job and the headache that entails. Sure the extra stock would be nice, but since the stock has barely moved and has given no indication of an eventual split, it doesn't seem to be incentive enough. The bottom line is that virtually any management person that is 45 or under, will have to get another job if they are able to retire at 55. I see no opportunity to retire wealthy like previous generations of UPS mgmt folks. Take a look at the holdings of the managment committee members, it doesn't even look like they will retire with more than $3-5 million. While that's a lot, it is still significantly less than thousands of retirees that retired throughout the 90's and early 00's. Of course, I don't know that to be a fact, but hypothecation has been out the window since 99, so I don't know how anyone can significantly increase their holdings based on recent MIP awards. In my opinion, mgmt pay needs to be increased at all levels (to provide hourly employees incentive) and the money we pay for health care needs to be decreased or eliminated. I am sure some may disagree and think that UPS is doing all the right things, but I don't see too many (any, for that matter) drivers banging down the door to join the management ranks. I hope somewhere in the country they are, or I really fear for the future of our company.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Only a complete and total idiot would give up driving in order to go into UPS management today.
I, too fear for the future of our company. We need competent, motivated operational management people if we are to be successful. Under our current operational model, nobody in his right mind who had any other options would choose to go into management.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I made this observation about UPS (and most Corporations) some 20 years ago.
The litigious atmosphere in the US, anti-discriminatory laws and regulations, and modern day risk management in large corporations has made this an even more obvious aspect of the Corporate reality.
So the answer is Yes but not to the extent of Unions.
Before we get teary eyed about 3% raises take a look at the annual inflation rates of the last 10 years and see what a 3% raise actually is.
"
Inflation has been defined as a process of continuously rising prices or equivalently, of a continuously falling value of money.Various indexes have been devised to measure different aspects of inflation. The CPI measures inflation as experienced by consumers in their day-to-day living expenses; the Producer Price Index (PPI) measures inflation at earlier stages of the production process; the Employment Cost Index (ECI) measures it in the labor market; the BLS International Price Program measures it for imports and exports; and the Gross Domestic Product Deflator (GDP Deflator) measures inflation experienced by both consumers themselves as well as governments and other institutions providing goods and services to consumers. Finally, there are specialized measures, such as measures of interest rates.[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The "best" measure of inflation for a given application depends on the intended use of the data. The CPI is generally the best measure for adjusting payments to consumers when the intent is to allow consumers to purchase at today's prices, a market basket of goods and services equivalent to one that they could purchase in an earlier period." [/FONT]Consumer Price Index Frequently Asked Questions
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2006 CPI = 3.2% raise meant nothing[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2007 CPI = 2.8% raise meant nothing[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2008 CPI = 3.8% raise meant nothing[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2009 CPI = -0.4% hey look this year was actually a merit increase[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2010 CPI = 1.6% raise meant nothing
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2006 CPI = 3.2% raise meant nothing[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2007 CPI = 2.8% raise meant nothing[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2008 CPI = 3.8% raise meant nothing[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2009 CPI = -0.4% hey look this year was actually a merit increase[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2010 CPI = 1.6% raise meant nothing
[/FONT]
Catatonic
Nine Lives
The purpose of annual raises is to offset inflation - over the last ten years, it has pretty much done that except for the increased cost of employee paid health benefits.
People who were underpaid in their grade/positions and doing an acceptable job were given 1 or 2 % above the average. Everyone creeps towards the annually reestablished center-point of their pay grade bracket.
I apologize for the intrusion by this Union Man into your Management section, but I thought I'd give this post the credit it deserves. This really captures the fallacy that is forced upon workers today, non-union and management in all fields. Wall Street has sold people a bill of goods that they can do better by not organizing and demanding their fair share. The Upper Echelon can negotiate and demand their payment regardless of "industry average" or strangling pay scales. The only way to play this game is to break into that golden ceiling or own your own company. Most of us weren't cut out for being business owners but that shouldn't mean UPS management should have to accept being pigeonholed into a pay scale that doesn't recognize individual performance.
As the OP said, everyone gets their 3%, whether they perform or not. He's dead on about not being able to retire wealthy like the previous generation. UPS shut that door when they went public. I think the best thing for this Company would be to take it private again and have a real Union employee ownership program not the substandard one we had available in the past. Yes, I know a lot of management were butt-hurt when that was even opened up to the BU, but it was want to stay on top it needs to happen. Lets be beholden to ourselves to produce and not the shareholders. Lets all get rich or rich enough but without friend-ing each other over all the time.
40 percent of my management team will not be eligibale for increases because they are reportedly too far above the mean - I try to motiviate my people - but with a crap MIP and no raise - I have no organizational support in doing so....My battle has gone from KEEPING them highly motivated to attempting to thrawt their deep sarcasm, desire to leave ASAP daily and constantly live in the realm of "it is what it is"....I need some help from the organization - I can not be an apologist for them minute by minute. NOt sure I can keep fighting the fight for UPS - All I have in my bag now is " do it or your not going to have a job" - if I resorted to that I would be running a center solo very soon at this point. --- HELP!!
Similar threads
