22.3 Employment Update

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by I'mTheMan, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    Just wanted to inform you all and let you know that we had a 22.3 meeting this morning and meeting lasted as just over 2 hours explaining on the agreements with Union and UPS Labor Manager with members pending on vote which will be in mail ballots this week. We'll get a results on Jan 30th for the vote of "Yes" or "No" for agreeing the proposal. More than 100 members showed up to listen the agreements of what it has taken place. To be honest with you, there's a lot of disagreements and anger of how this been going through and we've been kept in the dark more than 4 months and has not been given protection and felt that all of us hadn't been a real strong union in such very long time and still hadn't today either. This is all unforgiving to UPS and to the Union. It's hard to accept it of what's is offered on the table. So I will try this to be brief:

    The agreement is to protect the 31 of us whom we got layoff since Aug 2008 is what union has been focusing by getting our job back. Since BFI night sort is still closed, well it may reopen at anytime if volume rises or if other hubs still can't handle the additional volume. The plan is by having 31 of us to work with 2 buildings and UPS is willing to pay for "Travel" between 2 buildings as such working with 4 hours with Seattle Hub building and then spent few mins of driving to BFI to work other 4 hours. This will considered 8 consecutive hours and 5 working consecutive day to work. Whatever union decide us to work would be considered Sun - Thurs, Mon - Fri, or Tues - Saturday. Under agreement, UPS will NOT decide this. Right now it has only been discussed 2 buildings but that may changed later if union decides us to work elsewhere like Redmond Hub or other regional hubs around Pacific NW. This will be based on company's seniority, not the center seniority. The top 10 or 15 22.3 may be placed full time one place in BFI. The lower 15 may be worked with 2 buildings for awhile till when bigger volumes returned, then the union will place the 2 buildings into one building and all 31 would be fully returned to BFI when it gets fully operational and higher volumes and economy will turned stronger. Which means if company reinstated BFI Night Sort. For example as my union explains to me as they were working on getting me back to BFI is that I may work Seattle Twilight Hub and then drive over to BFI Sunrise sort. Or Seattle Night Sort and drive over to BFI sunrise sort and will have 1 hr lunch time. Both shift will be fully 8 hours as this part agreement. The other problem is that we will NOT get any back pay for this any layoffs since. However, we 31 of us will get our F/T benefits back. Make sense? Which means is jobs workable for now to keep 22.3 going.

    The good news if the vote is "YES" then union will start putting us back to work by 30 days. Which means that we would be back full time employment around by March 1st.

    The bad news is that if the vote is "NO" then that means union will go ahead and tell UPS to get rid all of the jobs. There will be no 22.3 jobs and all other kinds of full time jobs will be lost and gone. All the double shifters jobs will also be considered gone as well. Which mean we have to wait till new contract at year of 2013. Everything will be part timers here in this Local agreements. Not national agreements. This is already been agreements with Joint Council and IBT. Now vote is awaits and go from there. Also all the grievances are being withdrawn by the Local Union already. No panel will be heard at this point.

    We all aware across the country are dealing with layoffs with other airports and I hope you guys might get idea and my idea was getting them 2 buildings that would allow to keep us busy. The union took it and make its into considerations with the Labor Manager. Even though the Labor manager never liked any of the idea but kept pushing for 22.3 layoffs further but Union did fought long and hard to protect it without losing it.

    Would like your feedback and tell me what you think. You have the right voice to this issue with agree or disagree. I respect that. I know a lot of us disagree with it but they may take it into considerations and vote on it to keep the jobs going. A lot of part timers members and all the 22.3 members have to vote on it this week.

    I'll update this when we get the final numbers by end of this month on Jan 30th. Hopefully I should know if we are still going to be protected with the vote "yes" is encouraged by Union President, Secretary Treasurer, and all business agents as well. Even though UPS Labor Manager still disagrees with this issue so we'll see.

  2. Dark_Team_135

    Dark_Team_135 Member

    Last edited: Jan 11, 2009
  3. redshift1

    redshift1 New Member

    Hard to imagine UPS moving employees from part time to full time given the economic climate and customers transitioning from air to ground shipments. Hope it works out for you.
  4. combogirl

    combogirl New Member

    So what you are saying is that if you vote this down, the union will give back the 22.3 jobs to ups? You are saying that the union is NOT going to hold ups to the contract that they agreed to? Why? You should have the right to bump 2 pt employees in your current location to keep your 22.3 position.

    They are going to pay you travel time? Is this milage or however long it takes you to drive from one center to the other at your pay rate?
  5. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    What I am saying is that if we vote "yes" to keep jobs 22.3 for all 31 layoff full timers and current 22.3 full timers. These jobs will be guarantee to be stay 8 hrs full time 5 days a week. If this pass, UPS will give our 31 of us whom layoff airport job will be given back. Since BFI Night Sort is closed, UPS will allow us to work 2 buildings for awhile until BFI Night Sort opens in sometime later this year or next year when volume increases. If we voted "no" to the agreement, then union will inform UPS to ahead to get rid of all the jobs and we won't be protected on those jobs anymore. We would be completed part time until the new contract 2013 and UPS will have to create new jobs all over again for 22.3's. If passed "yes" vote, then, UPS and union will discuss the milage pay rate to get to another building to do other 4 hrs job. Like for instance, work 4 hours in hub then drive 5 mins to airport then take your 1 hour lunch time. Then work again for another 4 hours. Once you had your 8 hrs, then can go home. This is the only way that would've work out for a time being. There none like the idea but everyone is encouraged to go ahead and vote "yes" to keep the full time job going alive until the next new contract in 2013. (Sorry if you can understand it or not but trying to make this clear)
  6. seawalocal174

    seawalocal174 New Member

    I will be voting yes, I think UPS management went the wrong way with the whole BFI thing. Isn't the agreement to maintain about 160 fulltime jobs in the local??
  7. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    I will be voting yes also. The agreement is to maintain 160 full time job for now till 2013. If passed, the company have 30 days to get our job back and get back to work full time. However, the local will be deciding where 31 of us whom we been layoff since Aug '08 will be placing those jobs. Most few top seniority will be returned full time back to BFI and rest of them may be working with Seattle Hub and BFI Hub as considered 2 building job. However, as I said, that may change in a later time as we may be sent to Redmond or other hubs in based of what Local will be sending us to. As for me, the local is fully aware that I really wanted my BFI job back and loved that job!! However, I have to respect others top seniority who gets to go BFI first.
  8. Dark_Team_135

    Dark_Team_135 Member

    I can't imagine the Local if you vote "no" telling the company to go ahead and get rid of all those full-time jobs with the Union's blessing...I think that has to be a mistake. Please confirm this with the Local.

    If this is voted down they go back to the table...

    And NO back pay for the hours you missed for months? That's not right either...
  9. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    I agree with you completely 100% on this. This confirm that Union has made it very clear on this: However, from what I heard that the local isn't going to go back to table of the vote "NO" is passed. So we will be screwed and our life of combo full time will be screwed and would have to wait till next contract 2013 to bid for new full time job by then. If the vote "YES" is passed then the local will start providing layoff 31 jobs from BFI and 10 from Redmond and 2 from Seattle and to keep push numbers from 120 to 160 full time jobs running. So we're trying to keep UPS from winning this and trying to inform all the members to vote YES to keep combo full time job alive. See how it goes from here in 2 weeks.
  10. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    something about this whole idea of "vote yes or get nothing" is fishy...those jobs would have to go somewhere...though I'm pretty sure at this point the union has no idea how many of the garaunteed 22.3 jobs are actually in existence (neither side actually)
  11. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    Well the guaranteed will only be provided is by the local union and this is will be the first time to do that local agreements instead of national agreements. I'm kind of hoping across the country may get the idea of that as well but we know a lot of layoffs from UPS is affected across the country. The thing is that full timers liked the idea but the part timers do not like the idea and been kept talking about "If If If" and it's been giving me worry part of how the vote is going to turn out. We have around 2,000 union UPS employees have to cast the ballot in soon. I already cast my ballot in and sent in mail. So we'll see what our lives depends on this situations.
  12. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    So you think 160 votes by the ft will beat the atleast 320 pt thatll be displaced?
    Not choosing sides, just want your opinion?
  13. Red Dawn

    Red Dawn Member

    company is getting ride of All 22.3 jobs. dfw night sort is gone feb. 8 around 65 combos effected. But are taking all 22.3 jobs 118of us are all gone. alowing use to pick from displace 2pters from opp shifts. we have over 700 hundred part time employees. but they are only letting us chose like preload 330am-8am and twlt hub,ramp, box filper...ect 5pm-10pm. was called up today w/o notice of opp. or steward told had to pick or they would move me to bottom of list. even better is they to me i get to keep my fulltime senority but i would be the lowest on senority list of part timers. and i would go back to part time pay.. i drive in morinigs and work day hub. so the part time drivers with only 3 yrs with company and aloud to work 6 days will be making $3 more than me an hour..so mutch for my 12yrs.(9fultime) this is only a SMALL peace of mess that has happened this week! o in case ur woundering both sides of my job is still there and are being filled with part time employees..no bs
  14. caspers1

    caspers1 New Member

    I've been reading about the lay offs listed. DFW Dallas Hub is closing down midnight sort.They are having all comb works rebid jobs. All week we come in look at a list that changes from day to day some jobs added some taken off. They say we no longer have a 8 hour guarantee . My shift for the last 13 years was 5am or 6am to 2pm 3pm.
    As of Feb 13th I will work 3:30am to 7:30am then 5pm to8:30pm . 100 plus workers will work hours of this sort with 5 to 8 hours from one shift to the next ! What happened to the new contract ? These hours are life changing for workers and family.
    P.S. we had only 2 or 3 days notice of change. If you don't pick when called you are moved to bottom of list of seniority list.
  15. OldUPSDriver

    OldUPSDriver New Member

    Caspers, you were notified Nov 26, 2008. Why do you say you had 2 days notice??
  16. Red Dawn

    Red Dawn Member

    oldupsdriver. answer to ur ? about casper..we were all told only combos that worked on the midnight sort would be affected. 3 different combos. we came to work tue. morning and our ft mgr. told us that we are all gone.(22.3 employees) that he was instructed to hire 17 new drivers to replace us.And thats all he would say. he told us that our other mgr would get w us. at that time ups said was only going to make room for 35 out of 118 22.3 combos. other mgr only got with a couple of combo works that he came across in hub. never told sups to tell us to see him or pass out list..union rep came out in moring when first list was passed out.(up to 5as of friday) later president of southern region is in our local. they had meeting that afternoon. union said langue is clear. next day 90 jobs now aviable. and ups started call employees w/o notice and told to pick now or go to bottom. no time to in form familys. list only had 180 part time jobs listed out of 678. only willing to give us shifts that had 3-4 hours between them. rep came back out and we got new list. and on friday moring i heard of another list and by that afternoon they had come up w another list. i asked about pt jobs and was told they don't exist. but we have pters doing them. as of to day i heard we have to start bid all over again next week. had skipped some people and not listing some jobs...and as of today we have found at least another 8 pt jobs. only have one person doing job is my guess to way they don't know who does what...oh and hours on list are not right...with all the pt jobs we have this could be alot easier if everyone sit down and work togerther...but then i guess we would still have 22.3 jobs...
  17. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    Drewed, Honestly? I don't know what's turn out is going to be when we hear those numbers on 30th of Jan. That is what concerns me see or hear of how numbers will turn out. I'm not choosing sides either but it will be interesting to see how big scare is going to be.
  18. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    Red Dawn, I read your post that I have to say that whatever the company and your union to bring out the list more than several times doesn't make any sense. Why would they put you to end or low to your seniority list? When BFI layoff my job as a 22.3, they told us that they would dovetail my seniority and keep full time pay rate but little changes that I'll get several 25 hrs of vacation and several 20 hrs of option week vacations. Plus changes in health, dental, and vision insurance for being part time. I will get those full time insurance back if vote goes "YES" pass to return to full time. I just hope that your union to keep fighting to have you and others to stay at 22.3 alive. I know UPS will still lie to your union and fight to getting you all back to part timers so don't let them have it and it is your right that to keep your 22.3 full time jobs. Even for my case, we have no 45 days notice so the union build this difficult case and take it to federal court and panels. That's why my union fought to keep airport job or considered 2 building job as hub and airport if we approve this vote for this but it'll be couple of weeks before we know how it turns out by this. As for you and others, keep pressuring the union to do the right thing and keep 22.3 full time job alive!!
  19. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    The only thing that's clear is that you are getting really lousy representation by the union.

    Let's see if I've got this right: UPS closed down the Boing Field night sort, eliminating half of the job of 31 (thirty-one) 22.3s.

    The work went to Seattle? The pt and non-22.3 ft followed the work to Seattle and dovetailed their seniority into the Seattle night sort list? Or were some allowed to switch shifts or go to other buildings than Seattle?

    But there are 160 22.3s in Joint Council area? And the Company made or is threatening to make all of them pt, not just the 31? And the Union is saying they won't grieve this if you don't agree to some really lousy side agreement?

    The description of that kind of "representation" is "sellout", not "weak".
  20. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    When we got layoff of all 31 of us from Boeing Field, There were 5 of them stayed at Boeing Field at part time. The others were split 1/4 of it went to Redmond Night Sort and 1 went to Pacific Hub. 1 were sent to Tukwilia as well. Then 7 of us went to Seattle Twilight Hub and Final 5 of them went to Seattle Night Sort and 1 on Seattle Preload. So rare that we were split up because this is where we were first hired as part time and worked 5 to 7 yrs before going to full time to 22.3's job over Boeing Field. Currently right now we have 80 full timers are currently at Redmond Hub in their 22.3's. 22 of them full timers are at Seattle. From what I heard it has now around 120 that are 22.3 are still at full time. With the agreement saying that want up to 160. 5 days a week with 8 hrs a day guaranteed jobs.

    You are right that union is weak and there hadn't been one today. We all disappointed but let me say this: We're kept in dark too long!! That should've not had happened and we do find ourself angry. We still havn't forgive to union and to company as well. It just blew us away and it's so bold cold call!! We did file grievances and NLRB as well. UPS and Union also went to Federal Court and under agreement that 3 grievances would be waived and plus will owe us a little money. Honestly, I didn't like it! Not one bit that have hear this such news from meeting last week. Seriously, if UPS says that 31 of us are getting our job back then UPS won't offer but Union will. They will offer of what we have to work with until the company to decide when to reinstate Boeing Field Night sort, then they will find us and ask us if we want to go back to full time at Boeing Field with night sort either with twilight or sunrise. They have to use the former 22.3's first to take this job. This purpose is only if the company bring back bigger volumes and work with it by then. Hopefully it should happen later this year or by peak. Right now, I never trust union or company because it just too many ball games are to be mess with and I have no favorite for both of them right now.