89 Days and You're Gone

[MrFedEx]

We have 89 days to get back to work after an illness/injury, or we are "displaced". The code word for "displaced" is eliminate. How long do UPS drivers have under their contract to rehab and get back to work? I've heard their position can be held up to 4 years, but I do not have confirmation on that. What protections do you have as a FedEx employee against the combined forces of the formidable Legal and HR departments? None, unless you can afford to lawyer-up and wait them out. Ask yourself what you would do if you get injured, and what you could do on day 89. Do you have thousands of dollars to retain a lawyer and many thousands more to keep them on retainer? If you're very lucky, one might take your case on a contingency basis, but that probably isn't the best person for the job. Even if they are really good, they're up against a team of hundreds.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Sounds like you need a Union.


(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

 

[MrFedEx]

Sounds like you need a Union.


(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Just curious. How long do you get? Is the 4-year figure accurate? And yes, this is just one of the many reasons we need a union. I expect the usual suspects will be on here shortly defending "back in 89" or out.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Just curious. How long do you get? Is the 4-year figure accurate? And yes, this is just one of the many reasons we need a union. I expect the usual suspects will be on here shortly defending "back in 89" or out.

I have no idea. There was a thread recently in which the OP said that he was out for 2 1/2 yrs. I was on comp for 2 weeks and thought I was going stir crazy--I can't imagine 2 1/2 yrs.

 

[MrFedEx]

I have no idea. There was a thread recently in which the OP said that he was out for 2 1/2 yrs. I was on comp for 2 weeks and thought I was going stir crazy--I can't imagine 2 1/2 yrs.

FedEx would make your "decision" for you. That 2.5 year person would be on welfare or living in a cardboard box over here.

 

[bbsam]

Sounds like you need a Union.


(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Think you could organize one for him? He's not having much luck.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

 

[FedEx2000]

To be completely honest MrFedEx, the 90 day displacement means that you lose your position/route, not your job. You still have the opportunity to come back, albeit generally into a new position after you heal. You have 90 days after getting a full release from the doctor to accept a position. With our poor pay and high turnover rate, there should be plenty of openings in JCATS for that person to get a position...might not be their dream job, but it's better than starting from scratch, especially if they have a few years in already. What sense does it make to keep filling someone's route with random people for 2.5 yrs, to use the example above? At some point, you have to cut your losses. I think that's more than a fair chance to get a job back. Say that person had only been with the company for a year, and then out for 2 years.....we are losing money there, and no business is in business to lose money.

I'm not going to argue this point with you, just be sure to tell the whole story next time and not leave out that little detail b/c it makes your argument sound better.-->You do not just lose your job on the 89/90th day.....you lose your position.

If it was your loop partner I would think you would want them to replace the position so that you wouldn't have to pick up the slack everyday for years.

 

[grgrcr88]

To be completely honest MrFedEx, the 90 day displacement means that you lose your position/route, not your job. You still have the opportunity to come back, albeit generally into a new position after you heal. You have 90 days after getting a full release from the doctor to accept a position. With our poor pay and high turnover rate, there should be plenty of openings in JCATS for that person to get a position...might not be their dream job, but it's better than starting from scratch, especially if they have a few years in already. What sense does it make to keep filling someone's route with random people for 2.5 yrs, to use the example above? At some point, you have to cut your losses. I think that's more than a fair chance to get a job back. Say that person had only been with the company for a year, and then out for 2 years.....we are losing money there, and no business is in business to lose money.

I'm not going to argue this point with you, just be sure to tell the whole story next time and not leave out that little detail b/c it makes your argument sound better.-->You do not just lose your job on the 89/90th day.....you lose your position.

If it was your loop partner I would think you would want them to replace the position so that you wouldn't have to pick up the slack everyday for years.

Or maybe they could just have the same person run the route until the bid driver comes back. Wait,that would be too easy, us truck drivers are not nearly as smart as you "PILOTS" over there!!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Just curious. How long do you get? Is the 4-year figure accurate? And yes, this is just one of the many reasons we need a union. I expect the usual suspects will be on here shortly defending "back in 89" or out.

I believe it is 7 years in this area, not positive on that though - have only read language a couple times. It is at least several years, for certain.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

To be completely honest MrFedEx, the 90 day displacement means that you lose your position/route, not your job. You still have the opportunity to come back, albeit generally into a new position after you heal. You have 90 days after getting a full release from the doctor to accept a position. With our poor pay and high turnover rate, there should be plenty of openings in JCATS for that person to get a position...might not be their dream job, but it's better than starting from scratch, especially if they have a few years in already. What sense does it make to keep filling someone's route with random people for 2.5 yrs, to use the example above? At some point, you have to cut your losses. I think that's more than a fair chance to get a job back. Say that person had only been with the company for a year, and then out for 2 years.....we are losing money there, and no business is in business to lose money.

I'm not going to argue this point with you, just be sure to tell the whole story next time and not leave out that little detail b/c it makes your argument sound better.-->You do not just lose your job on the 89/90th day.....you lose your position.

If it was your loop partner I would think you would want them to replace the position so that you wouldn't have to pick up the slack everyday for years.

I have a sneaking suspicion that there have been employees over at Fred*Mart that have been railroaded out after injuries.

 

[MrFedEx]

To be completely honest MrFedEx, the 90 day displacement means that you lose your position/route, not your job. You still have the opportunity to come back, albeit generally into a new position after you heal. You have 90 days after getting a full release from the doctor to accept a position. With our poor pay and high turnover rate, there should be plenty of openings in JCATS for that person to get a position...might not be their dream job, but it's better than starting from scratch, especially if they have a few years in already. What sense does it make to keep filling someone's route with random people for 2.5 yrs, to use the example above? At some point, you have to cut your losses. I think that's more than a fair chance to get a job back. Say that person had only been with the company for a year, and then out for 2 years.....we are losing money there, and no business is in business to lose money.

I'm not going to argue this point with you, just be sure to tell the whole story next time and not leave out that little detail b/c it makes your argument sound better.-->You do not just lose your job on the 89/90th day.....you lose your position.

If it was your loop partner I would think you would want them to replace the position so that you wouldn't have to pick up the slack everyday for years.

No, you need to tell the full story about what really happens to employees who get hurt at FedEx. Yes, policy states that you lose your position after 90 days, but reality dictates that you will either be railroaded-out or forced to "accept" a position that is unrealistic to take. For example, let's say you are a topped-out RTD or courier in a major market and you get injured, and eventually displaced at the 90 day mark. Maybe there's a position 3,000 miles away and you have a special-needs child or a sick elderly parent or one of a thousand other reasons you can't just pick-up and move. OR, there aren't any RTD or courier jobs available and you can become a handler for $12.50 per hour or whatever that particular market is paying. How are you supposed to live off of that, especially if it's only part-time?

Wouldn't the "people" thing to do be holding a position open for you once you heal, re-hab, or otherwise return to good health? No, it wouldn't, and if you don't like it, well that's just too bad. You could work 25 years for FedEx, get some sort of debilitating illness, and then effectively get canned just because you were unlucky enough to get sick. Yep, that's P-S-P in action for you, isn't it?

The other fact you don't mention is that FedEx would prefer just to get rid of you altogether, and when you don't take that handler job in EWR or that courier position in Bent Fork, Arkansas, the elimination machine kicks into high gear. God, I hope that there is some class-action attorney out there who gets the information they need to go after FedEx for their cold and calculating methods of eliminating sick and injured employees. It really is criminal the way this company conducts itself.

 

[MrFedEx]

To be completely honest MrFedEx, the 90 day displacement means that you lose your position/route, not your job. You still have the opportunity to come back, albeit generally into a new position after you heal. You have 90 days after getting a full release from the doctor to accept a position. With our poor pay and high turnover rate, there should be plenty of openings in JCATS for that person to get a position...might not be their dream job, but it's better than starting from scratch, especially if they have a few years in already. What sense does it make to keep filling someone's route with random people for 2.5 yrs, to use the example above? At some point, you have to cut your losses. I think that's more than a fair chance to get a job back. Say that person had only been with the company for a year, and then out for 2 years.....we are losing money there, and no business is in business to lose money.

I'm not going to argue this point with you, just be sure to tell the whole story next time and not leave out that little detail b/c it makes your argument sound better.-->You do not just lose your job on the 89/90th day.....you lose your position.

If it was your loop partner I would think you would want them to replace the position so that you wouldn't have to pick up the slack everyday for years.

This post really illustrates the difference between me and you. I could never sit across the desk from a faithful employee and end their career by standing behind a policy like this one. You could. I'm intelligent enough to have gone as far as I wished within the organization, but my ethics always prevented me from doing so. You sound like a decent person, but the fact that you defend what FedEx does to people day-in and day-out belies that decency. I'm sure you can live with yourself. I could not.

 

[FedEx2000]

This post really illustrates the difference between me and you. I could never sit across the desk from a faithful employee and end their career by standing behind a policy like this one. You could. I'm intelligent enough to have gone as far as I wished within the organization, but my ethics always prevented me from doing so. You sound like a decent person, but the fact that you defend what FedEx does to people day-in and day-out belies that decency. I'm sure you can live with yourself. I could not.

I'm not ending anyone's career, an injury might, but not me personally. In a small market it can be difficult to get a similar position after displacement, but in any market of decent size there are multiple locations within reasonable driving distance.....and over the course of 90 days there are numerous courier/CSA/handler/ramp positions that become available. One can't always be picky and wait for the perfect position, but at least keep your job/seniority and bid into a position that you prefer when the opportunity arises.

Don't insinuate that my ethics aren't up to your standards b/c I chose to go into management, one chooses to act unethically, it has nothing to do with the job. You don't agree with many of FedEx's policies, and that's fine. I don't necessarily agree with all of them either, but I still have a responsibility to do my job as do you, and I feel as though I do so well within the guidelines of ethical behavior.

I currently have 3 employees out on medical leave....shoulder surgery, hip surgery, and back pain. One will be displaced in a about week as they are just now electing to have surgery....3.5 months after the injury, displacement time was extended b/c they worked TRW. I call them all about once a week to see how they are doing and follow up with our HCMP. I've never "railroaded" anyone out of a job or fired up the "elimination machine".

I hope like hell they all make it back, one is my IIC....guess who does it when they aren't there?? I do. At least until the backup person gets in. I would much rather they make it back than I have to hire someone off the street and train them from scratch. Having to hire/train new people is extremely time consuming and expensive....it also keeps me from doing the job I am supposed to be doing. The unfortunate part is that some people never fully recover from their injuries and are never given a clean bill of health from the doctor. It would be irresponsible on our part to put them back on the road only for them to get re-injured. In addition, we are unable to replace any position until they are displaced. That puts more stress on the remaining people....as you well know we don't have an extra 3 or 4 float drivers laying around these days. So, by replacing them, we are actually doing the "people" thing by a greater number of people. Rather than the entire station and customers suffer b/c we have x number of people out hurt for who knows how long. We don't have the people to cover multiple openings for an extended period of time.....and if we did, they wouldn't get any hours when they weren't needed.

I think someone suggested that we just "schedule the same person on that open route everyday" rather than covering it with multiple people. I hope that was a joke b/c that would mean pulling someone off their route that they bid on to cover another one, how "people" is that? Also, if the injured person is out for a long time, how fair is it to the person that was doing that route for however long to just get kicked off it when they get back? Can't cover it with a swing either, not fair for them to get swing pay while doing the same route everyday is it? That also leaves holes in vacation coverage if that swing is covering an "open" route that was not factored into the vacation schedule.

Bottom line, I wish everyone could make it back....better yet, no one gets hurt. But I live in reality, and at some point if someone can't physically do the job, we need to find someone who can. We can't continue to pay them disability and cover medical cost with no end in sight.

 

[MrFedEx]

90 days isn't exactly "no end in sight", nor is it an ethical and reasonable amount of time. This policy has destroyed a lot of good people who deserved better.

 

[bbsam]

90 days isn't exactly "no end in sight", nor is it an ethical and reasonable amount of time. This policy has destroyed a lot of good people who deserved better.

Maybe. But the old addage may also be applicable: Not all turnover is bad turnover.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Maybe. But the old addage may also be applicable: Not all turnover is bad turnover.

The best turnover I ever had was an apple turnover.

 

[bbsam]

The best turnover I ever had was an apple turnover.

Delish!

 

[ex fed exer]

at ups there have been several drivers gone over a year due to medical conditions. when they are ready to come back, they come back to their job and route. nothing changes.


at fed ex, you lose your route and position and if nothing is available in the station, you are forced to a new station. it is not easy to live in one city where one is established and forced to drive to another to do the job. fed ex knows this. this is another way fed ex forces people out of the company.

 

[MrFedEx]

at ups there have been several drivers gone over a year due to medical conditions. when they are ready to come back, they come back to their job and route. nothing changes.


at fed ex, you lose your route and position and if nothing is available in the station, you are forced to a new station. it is not easy to live in one city where one is established and forced to drive to another to do the job. fed ex knows this. this is another way fed ex forces people out of the company.

Exactly. Let's say the nearest courier job is 75 miles away and you don't have any alternatives. This is going to be a living hell until you can transfer out. Oh, and didn't they also require you to sign an 18-month commitment? So even if a position in your new station opens up, you're still stuck. I know someone who was a 25-30 year employee who recently became ill and could not make it back by Day 90. Their medical condition could improve dramatically within a 6-month timeframe, but that's too long for FedEx. Displaced, and nothing but part-time courier and handler jobs if this person regains their health. Just another way that FedEx follows P-S-P, huh? For all of you apologists out there, please get back to me if you ever get seriously ill or injured and tell me then how wonderful FedEx is. You will learn a very painful lesson about just how much FedEx "cares". ZERO.

 

[quadro]

Exactly. Let's say the nearest courier job is 75 miles away and you don't have any alternatives. This is going to be a living hell until you can transfer out. Oh, and didn't they also require you to sign an 18-month commitment? So even if a position in your new station opens up, you're still stuck. I know someone who was a 25-30 year employee who recently became ill and could not make it back by Day 90. Their medical condition could improve dramatically within a 6-month timeframe, but that's too long for FedEx. Displaced, and nothing but part-time courier and handler jobs if this person regains their health. Just another way that FedEx follows P-S-P, huh? For all of you apologists out there, please get back to me if you ever get seriously ill or injured and tell me then how wonderful FedEx is. You will learn a very painful lesson about just how much FedEx "cares". ZERO.

In the example you give, I'm pretty sure you are not held to any commitment so you won't necessarily be stuck at the other station. I do agree with you that it absolutely sucks if you are gone long enough that you loose your route and/or position. I'm not justifying it but I do what to throw out another angle on this. There are always people who are sick or injured. Of those people, most are not out for 90 days so the % or even the actual number of people that do go over 90 days is very small. That's no consolation for those that do and again, I'm not justifying the 90 day thing just throwing out some other perspectives. I've seen a few people go over the 90 days and they not only kept their job but also their route. This happened because at 90 days, if a replacement position had been posted it could take anywhere from 45 to 90 days to get that replacement on-board. The person that was out was expected back within that 2nd 90 day window so the station just waited for them to come back. Certainly doesn't happen all the time but it does happen.

The other thing is that given the number of people who fall into this long-term absence category is relatively small, there are generally a larger number of employees who are looking to upgrade from part-time to full-time, or looking to transfer from one station to another, etc. Opening up the route and/or the position provides an opportunity for someone else to get what they want. Obviously it may be at the expense of the person that is out but the person who gets the upgrade or the opportunity to transfer, looks at it as a positive thing. As it is simply impossible to provide everything to all people there has to be some sort of balance. If you protect the injured person's job and route for say 2 years, it kind of sucks if you are out 2 years and 2 weeks. If you protect it for 18 months, it kind of sucks if you are out for 19 months. No matter what you do, unless you protect for life which isn't going to happen, you always run the risk of displacing someone. Is 90 days too short? Very possibly. Perhaps 180 days or 1 year would be more reasonable but again, whatever it is someone is always going to miss that date.

So does FedEx care because they are providing an opportunity for someone else or do they not care because they are displacing someone? I guess it depends on your perspective and which one of the two people you are. And talking of providing opportunity, if I'm not mistaken it is nowhere near as easy to transfer with UPS as it is with FedEx because of the unions. If you are not looking to transfer you probably don't care but if you are, then you can raise the same question and ask how much UPS and the unions care about you if they won't let you transfer.