kingOFchester
Well-Known Member
friend) because they don't know any better. UPS promises them a pot of gold on the other side. Seen a few p/t loaders go into p/t sup because they are told that they will go full time faster and make more money.
A whole center team fired?
- Thread starter 705red
- Start date
slantnosechevy
Well-Known Member
Just checked with another steward I know in Ill. and he confirms. This is about the 10th instance I know of in the last 2 years. Seems some of these DMs need to go too. They could fire 50% of the CMs nationwide for jackin with the numbers. I.E. has absolutely no tolerance for this. They want to know exactly what it takes to do the job and what it costs. Situations like this slow the developement of their master plan. I.E. sets these guys in operations up to fail with unreal expectations. When they make it work I.E. knows they cheated somehow.
feederdriver06
former monkey slave
Dats a beautiful thing. Make sure you let em know Taco bell is hiring. They might be able to get jobs there.
old levi's
blank space
It happens on a regular basis at my center. It was brought to the attention of LP and the sup involved was said to " has been disciplined " A few weeks later the same guy wants to write a driver a warning letter for changing his start time. Not to gain money, but to the actual time he started because he thought if he left it at the time it was that he would be stealing money from the company. Since he was late he changed it to the time he started. They were reminded to " discipline " the driver and surprisingly simply gave a verbal. The point is there's a double standard in that and a lot of other things.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
We've had similar things happen around here lately. Most drivers contacted LP.
I have been wondering if this is UPS's way of thinning the mgt ranks. I have heard that a certain number of reductions had to be met.
The downside to this is when they want to increase the mgt ranks, most people will remember this and they will probably have to hire from outside.
705red
Browncafe Steward
I was waiting for some more information before I jumped on this full throttle. I know the center manager that was terminated. We were both part time together and worked side by side for almost 5 years during that time. He was a great kid, hard worker and a good friend back then.
He was sent to my center about 2 years ago as an on car ups out of IE. he was there about 6 weeks and then was moved, I have not heard from him since.
Now up to about a year ago we were in North ILL until we switched to metro. And what a welcome that switch was! The problem has to lie with the management team of course but in North they do not care how they obtain their numbers just as long as they do.
If the center team was fired then so should the district manager and his guys. They are the most dishonest management team out there. What do they expect, they call you and tell you that you have to hit these numbers no matter what so you cheat. Now i'm not condoning these actions but I can see how and why it happens. And its not the center teams fault!!!
They use fear/scare tactics on the employees and even their sups to gain what they need. Their initials are K.H and C.S, look it up corporate, because instead of firing every center management team in North ill you should know that they are being told to do this from up above. You want to make a point? Cut the snakes head off not the tail!
He was sent to my center about 2 years ago as an on car ups out of IE. he was there about 6 weeks and then was moved, I have not heard from him since.
Now up to about a year ago we were in North ILL until we switched to metro. And what a welcome that switch was! The problem has to lie with the management team of course but in North they do not care how they obtain their numbers just as long as they do.
If the center team was fired then so should the district manager and his guys. They are the most dishonest management team out there. What do they expect, they call you and tell you that you have to hit these numbers no matter what so you cheat. Now i'm not condoning these actions but I can see how and why it happens. And its not the center teams fault!!!
They use fear/scare tactics on the employees and even their sups to gain what they need. Their initials are K.H and C.S, look it up corporate, because instead of firing every center management team in North ill you should know that they are being told to do this from up above. You want to make a point? Cut the snakes head off not the tail!
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
One of our loaders has fallen for this, as well. I asked him why, and he said it was because there were like 20 people ahead of him to go driving. I said yeah, but if you cross out the ones that don't want to drive, then the ones that aren't fit or won't pass the class, you'll be way closer than you thought. He said, but they're gonna help me pay for school. I ended the conversation there, because the way he was reasoning, he sounded like he had the makings of a "good" supe.
some1else
Banned
we? i keep a note-pad in my backpack and every day i punch out i write down the SW, lunch, FW and any other unusual codes (safety meeting etc) i do this infront of the oms and whoever else is in there.
prior to doing it i had on/off problems with "about an hour" being missing. after i started its always been spot on! except a lunch being stolen when i was told no missed bus. for that day so i had to work it. got an adjustment for that though.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
Red,
If you would add one word to your post, I would agree totally. Instead of saying "its not the center teams fault!!!", I believe that "its not ONLY the center teams fault!!!"
ANY management person that acts dishonestly should be fired, even if they have pressure from above. I agree with you that if a district or division manager says that you have to hit numbers no matter what and also says "I don't care how", they are promoting dishonestly.
P-Man
Floridacargocat
Well-Known Member
Would like to venture the following:
"Live by the numbers, die by the numbers".
Use of the numbers and an intelligent utilization of the numbers will reveal the real situation. If the numbers are consistently on the positive side, then what does it reveal? That work can be performed (far) above standards? (How was this done; could IE profit from this and set new standards?). Or that the numbers have been contrived through a massaging of the base information.
If the numbers would be consistently low, then this would attract attention far earlier than high numbers.
In my experience (now close to 40 years in various industries), high productivity numbers are suspicious too; you just have to look very closely at them and you may need to observe operations (not just a few minutes but for several sessions/days).
At the end of the day, someone came to a mathematical result and was maybe influenced to arrive at a better result (spreadsheets with built-in formulas and macros can be such a beautiful instrument for calculation purposes). Is this called integrity or would this be systemic?
Sooner or later these variances will be noticed.
"Live by the numbers, die by the numbers".
Use of the numbers and an intelligent utilization of the numbers will reveal the real situation. If the numbers are consistently on the positive side, then what does it reveal? That work can be performed (far) above standards? (How was this done; could IE profit from this and set new standards?). Or that the numbers have been contrived through a massaging of the base information.
If the numbers would be consistently low, then this would attract attention far earlier than high numbers.
In my experience (now close to 40 years in various industries), high productivity numbers are suspicious too; you just have to look very closely at them and you may need to observe operations (not just a few minutes but for several sessions/days).
At the end of the day, someone came to a mathematical result and was maybe influenced to arrive at a better result (spreadsheets with built-in formulas and macros can be such a beautiful instrument for calculation purposes). Is this called integrity or would this be systemic?
Sooner or later these variances will be noticed.
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SKAGITDRIVER
Well-Known Member
I write my hours down every day and check them against my paystub hours had an issue in 89 they know I write them down and I have never had a problem since
Livin the Dream?
Disillusioned UPSer
Most every driver I know has the little lined spiral notebook for all hours worked, packages missed or missing, missed times, etc. They only ever have a paycheck problem once.
Regarding numbers, fudging of same - ENRON had fantastic numbers every single day, without exception, until they shut their doors.
Regarding numbers, fudging of same - ENRON had fantastic numbers every single day, without exception, until they shut their doors.
Pump Up The Volume
Well-Known Member
We had a business manager with 29 1/2 years wacked and 2 full-time sups with over 25 years a piece wacked half way across the country. Anything goes. And numbers fudging is the quickest way to go because its been commonplace since I've been around. Just hope Wall Street doesn't figure it out (WorldComm)
brownman15
Well-Known Member
thats exactly what is going on here.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Wall Street does not care about about UPS's internal measurements ... Wall Street only cares about the accounting numbers.
UPS has always assiduously kept and reported accurate and conservative bottom line accounting numbers.
Pump Up The Volume
Well-Known Member
While I'm am not diligent in my intentions to undermine the company I do believe the internal number fudging to be the tip of the iceberg
Livin the Dream?
Disillusioned UPSer
My point above is this -
When the numbers are fudged, on any level..... When the numbers are mandated from above, reach them NO MATTER WHAT....
Those numbers become meaningless to anyone.
It is not UPS specific
When the numbers are fudged, on any level..... When the numbers are mandated from above, reach them NO MATTER WHAT....
Those numbers become meaningless to anyone.
It is not UPS specific
Pump Up The Volume
Well-Known Member
It's called an accounting error
Catatonic
Nine Lives
And it's nothing new at UPS either.
As an IE I helped investigate many of these all across the SE Region. It happened all the time back then (80's and early 90s), it happens now and it will happen in the future.
People under pressure do stupid things.
