accident in gated sub

tieguy

Banned
We had a driver charged with an accident after being t-boned at a intersection. A lady was talking on the phone and ran the red light. He failed to clear the intersection doing 40MPH.


Thats possible. Even now i see our drivers try to time the light at an intersection when they should count three seconds and clear the intersection before moving. In your example the other driver is clearly at fault for running the red light. Our driver then is investigated to see if he could have avoided her act of stupidity. Could he have seen her flying up to the intersection and avoided entering the intersection. If he was in the intersection and saw she was coming did he do everything reasonable to avoid the accident such as sounding the horn , flashing his lights stopping safely etc.

Remember you as a ups driver are no longer just another idiot on the road . You are a professional driver that is expected to use good defense driving skills to avoid the other idiots mistakes.

remember too that you will only hear the drivers side of the investigation you will not always hear everything that happened.
 

ups1990

Well-Known Member
Scan the steering wheel of parked cars. Oh my god! I'm regurgitating commentaries.:greedy::whiteflag:
You beat me to it. A driver will generally always be at fault because he or she did not follow the five seeing habits. Management will say, this driver should have looked for brake lights or another sign telling the person there is someone inside the backing vehicle.
 

brown bomber

brown bomber
In my opinion regarding this incident....police should have been notified......the driver that backed into the Pkg. car, more than likely would have been cited for IMPROPER BACKING.......police would say the UPS driver was in NO WAY at fault......but I'm sure UPS Mgt. would have a somewhat different opinion
 
Police don't come to accidents here unless there is an injury. What difference does it make if the police were called?

Not true. The police will come if only for the exchange of insurance information. They may not fill out a report or cite someone, but they will come to the scene. But they can only come to the scene if they were called. In our center, drivers are taken out of service for all incidents, tier one, two, and three. If they can regurgitate the safety drivel, they are back on the road the next day.
 

browned out

Well-Known Member
not necessarily but possibly. Depends on whether he could or should have seen her and whether he could have done everything possible to avoid the accident. The driver is probably out of service because its a tier 3 accident being investigated. The contract does allow us time to investigage accidents during which we take the driver out of service. A tier three costs us an average of 42000 dollars. There is probably local contract language that allows us to take him out of service for a set dollar amount.

serious accident language requiring drug testing is where the DOT language would kick in. There is no DOT language requiring us to take someone out of service for 4400 dollars of damage.

We were told by management "we had to take him out of service; it is not us it is DOT

Here is the exact verb age from contract article 17 central region (d) gross negligence resulting in a serious accident. a serious accident is described as one in which there is a fatality. ..... or $4400.00 or more in damages.

Driver of car told center manager and on car sup that it was 100 percent her fault. center manager and oncar reenacted this accident four times at exact location. Oncar stated he believed it to be unavoidable. Short driveways and around curve. Our driver was at the point where he could have stopped and taken the hit broadside or speed up and try to get out of way. He was on the horn the whole time. Car hit package car in very back on drivers side. Very minor damage to our truck. In service the next day with scratches no more than what the car washers or tree branches do.
 

browned out

Well-Known Member
Thats possible. Even now i see our drivers try to time the light at an intersection when they should count three seconds and clear the intersection before moving. In your example the other driver is clearly at fault for running the red light. Our driver then is investigated to see if he could have avoided her act of stupidity. Could he have seen her flying up to the intersection and avoided entering the intersection. If he was in the intersection and saw she was coming did he do everything reasonable to avoid the accident such as sounding the horn , flashing his lights stopping safely etc.

Remember you as a ups driver are no longer just another idiot on the road . You are a professional driver that is expected to use good defense driving skills to avoid the other idiots mistakes.

remember too that you will only hear the drivers side of the investigation you will not always hear everything that happened.


We are told to expect the unexpected but also to expect other drivers to act in a reasonable fashion. If not we would not be able to move down any res street.
 

browned out

Well-Known Member
You beat me to it. A driver will generally always be at fault because he or she did not follow the five seeing habits. Management will say, this driver should have looked for brake lights or another sign telling the person there is someone inside the backing vehicle.


So every time we see someone get into their car in a driveway and they seem to see us; we need to get out of our truck, knock on their window, have them get out of their car and stand beside it with their keys in their hand so we know their car won' t roll into us?
 

browned out

Well-Known Member
We were told by management "we had to take him out of service; it is not us it is DOT

Here is the exact verb age from contract article 17 central region (d) gross negligence resulting in a serious accident. a serious accident is described as one in which there is a fatality. ..... or $4400.00 or more in damages.

Driver of car told center manager and on car sup that it was 100 percent her fault. center manager and oncar reenacted this accident four times at exact location. Oncar stated he believed it to be unavoidable. Short driveways and around curve. Our driver was at the point where he could have stopped and taken the hit broadside or speed up and try to get out of way. He was on the horn the whole time. Car hit package car in very back on drivers side. Very minor damage to our truck. In service the next day with scratches no more than what the car washers or tree branches do.

I think that the center manager did not call police because there was basically no damage to our package car. If the back axle was torn off; I am sure he would have. In Michigan; state law requires all accidents with damages appearing over $1000 to be reported to the nearest police dept.

I don't know if this accident was even called in to liberty mutual. It therefore seems to have not ever happened as far as Liberty Mutual, the DOT and local police are concerned. The only one who faces any real consequences is a not at fault UPS driver whose livelihood hangs in the balance.
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
not necessarily but possibly. Depends on whether he could or should have seen her and whether he could have done everything possible to avoid the accident. The driver is probably out of service because its a tier 3 accident being investigated. The contract does allow us time to investigage accidents during which we take the driver out of service. A tier three costs us an average of 42000 dollars. There is probably local contract language that allows us to take him out of service for a set dollar amount.

serious accident language requiring drug testing is where the DOT language would kick in. There is no DOT language requiring us to take someone out of service for 4400 dollars of damage.

Tell me how this accident will cost UPS anywhere near $42000 other than the fact we are paying useless people in an office to go out and reenact the accident over and over again.

Every time I hear this expect the unexpected by a manager who's biggest problem might be the phone ringing unexpectedly it pisses me off.

What if I stick my foot out and trip a manager? Could he have expected it? Would it be "avoidable " if he had walked a different path? Did he clear the walkway?

It is easy to be perfect sitting in an office where you are safe from the real world.
 

rod

Retired 22 years
Those that drive a desk for a living don't have a clue what its like to drive a brown truck for hours on end-------but they sure like to pretend they do. They should stick to what they do best----juggle numbers.:peaceful:
 

hondo

promoted to mediocrity
I think that the center manager did not call police because there was basically no damage to our package car. If the back axle was torn off; I am sure he would have. In Michigan; state law requires all accidents with damages appearing over $1000 to be reported to the nearest police dept.

I don't know if this accident was even called in to liberty mutual. It therefore seems to have not ever happened as far as Liberty Mutual, the DOT and local police are concerned. The only one who faces any real consequences is a not at fault UPS driver whose livelihood hangs in the balance.
Isn't MI a no-fault insurance state, at least as far as vehicle damage? UPS and/or their insurance carrier/administrator pays for package car damage while other driver's insurance pays for her damage, regardless of whose fault it was?
 

SWORDFISH

Well-Known Member
Tell me how this accident will cost UPS anywhere near $42000 other than the fact we are paying useless people in an office to go out and reenact the accident over and over again.

Every time I hear this expect the unexpected by a manager who's biggest problem might be the phone ringing unexpectedly it pisses me off.

What if I stick my foot out and trip a manager? Could he have expected it? Would it be "avoidable " if he had walked a different path? Did he clear the walkway?

It is easy to be perfect sitting in an office where you are safe from the real world.

+1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
best comment I have heard in awhile. How in the world do you expect the unexpected. Its a joke.:peaceful:
 

CharleyHustle

Well-Known Member
Article 17 covers actions that the company can terminate your employment without prior warning (no progressive disipline). This accident may be MDOT (Michigan Dept of Transportation) reportable, that is if it goes over a defined amount of property damage or serious injury, it must be reported to MDOT. Fault is not mentioned in the article, and if it is reportable the company can contractualy take you out of service of terminate employment. I also believe that Article 17 is not coverd under "innocent till proven guilty".
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
Those that drive a desk for a living don't have a clue what its like to drive a brown truck for hours on end-------but they sure like to pretend they do. They should stick to what they do best----juggle numbers.:peaceful:

Speaking of juggling numbers I love when managers throw out this $42000 charge to the center for an "average" tier three accident. Or the $1500 charge for breaking a $3 mirror.

Why don't they worry about trying ti eliminate accidents that are our fault and actually do cost UPS $$$. That might ... I don't know... actually lower the average.

Maybe that is too complicated for our number crunchers so they assign a set charge for all tier threes even if the driver wasn't at fault and there was no real cost.
 

tieguy

Banned
Those that drive a desk for a living don't have a clue what its like to drive a brown truck for hours on end-------but they sure like to pretend they do. They should stick to what they do best----juggle numbers.:peaceful:

So your point would be that drivers should have accidents and management should not investigate them? Or was this just a classic class warfare vent?
 
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