Advice for a single mom just starting with UPS? Please?

[newgirl2012]

Don't believe anything management will tell you about upcoming job offers. Their main objective is that you stay through December 24th

I have already realized this....LOL....seems they will do and say anything to you as long as you do what they need you to do. Kind of sad really.

 

[newgirl2012]

True that. I have 32 full time years....23 in operations(driving).


If you have young children(you do). UPS is the last job you want, despite pay and benefits. Package is a sunup/sundown job. You'll be gone 12 hours give or take. If you are a single parent(you are), someone else is going to raise your kid. Forget about anything on the weekdays....plays, athletic stuff. If not going to this stuff bothers you.......you will not last. If you get hired off the street and get a full time pkg job.....you have won the lottery. And, if I had waited a decade to get a driving job and you waltz in off the street.......expect a little resentment.

If you are a single parent and become a driver......you will sell your soul and your kids to make it in pkg. Not always. You'll hear(some) folks who say no, I get home every day 4:30.......they are the very few exceptions.

Thank You

 

[newgirl2012]

It is too stressful of a job, and the time constraints are too much without a great support of family, which you stated you do not have. Do not do it. PT yes, it can be handled, do not take a ft position as a driver, inside or staff would be better, you can know your hours.

Thank You toonertoo!!!!!

 

[newgirl2012]

Thank You UpstateNYUPSer for all your words of wisdom too!

 

[Johney]

I have already realized this....LOL....seems they will do and say anything to you as long as you do what they need you to do. Kind of sad really.

Don't laugh I've had helpers telling me they were told they would become drivers at the end of peak. They gave a bonus one year of $100 to helpers who worked everyday from the beginning. From what I heard they even tried to cheat them on that as well.

 

[Sasquatch]

Sasquatch, I think you are confusing realism with pessimism. BTW, a "slave" is a person owned by another person---do you feel as though you are owned by UPS? The OP came here seeking advice, not a pity party.

I have read several smart @ss posts by you on this forum, I wasn't hosting a pity party I was speaking the truth about how 99.9% part timers feel... Maybe your hub is easy, but mine isn't I unload, load, do smalls, wash, check oil, clean the drivers garbages and throw there piss bottles away its really not funny doing all of this and taking home $25 a day after uncle sam and fuel cost for 4 hours work. I gave her good advice. Part time makes 100-150 a week and it basically goes right back into fuel to get back here... If you are not in it for the career why do this job? And yeah, part timers are over worked, under paid, and under appreciated disposable slaves to the corporation, how do you not see this? Maybe you have been a driver for too long or you worked part time in the 80s before the internet started making this corporation busy... and by the way I say this all with no frown for the brown, I only deal with all of the b.s so I can become a driver and sit on my arse all day.

 

[Sasquatch]

Well I appreciate everyone's thoughts and insight here, and actually a lot of the insight has helped me to make my decision. It's not the only deciding factor, of course, but it has helped. I am not staying. I honestly have already seen how management doesn't really care about you, they care about production, It's hard for me to deal with the negativity all day long everyday....does anyone ever do anything right here? Maybe some people are tough enough emotionally, but on friday I was given 187 stops and did not get home to my kids until 9pm. That killed me inside, and I know myself, I will not be able to handle that on a daily basis. As I said previously, I live in an area where I have no family around me at all, so my kids are at home alone with each other, and I just don't feel that's anyway to spend your childhood. I was offered a part time job with a great non-profit organization and I am taking it. I will be able to be there when my children need me, and that means more to me than money. I am really sad, as I have always wanted to be a UPS driver (honestly I have sonce I was a little kid!! LOL) but this would have been more feasable had I not had children! When you have children it really does change everything. I also have to deal with the issue that I am 36 years old, and already have problems with degenerative disc disease in my neck and lower back, and this job has already been torture on my body. I am not afraid of hard work, but it would clearly have been better for me to start doing something like this 10 years ago when I was in much better shape!! Another factor is this: after the season is over my sup told me I could get a job in the hub doing pre-load, ok.... doing that job I would take home $120 a week, which would not even pay my rent. So I would be busting my *** killing myself and get treated like **** for $120 a week that would only pay for my gas to get there and back? Hardly seems worth it. I need to be reasonable here, I know I could not do this job for the next 30 years of my life, my body will give out long before then ha ha. What good would I be to my kids then? LOL. My little guy is a tad disappointed that I won't be driving the big brown truck around anymore, but i don't think he honestly understands what it entails. He would know when I am not around for Christmas and all of that, but he will be much happier to have me around more, he will see the difference. For goodness sakes, I wouldn't even be able to bring them to the doctor if I stayed here, when would I ever have the time to do that??? My little one suffers from severe allergic asthma, so he has spent a lot of time in the hospital when he gets sick, I NEED to be there, asthma is nothing to take lightly. Anyway, sorry to go on so long here, but I wanted to say thank you to all of you for your opinions and insight, and just wanted to let you know that in the end, my kids are what matter to me most, even if they don't WANT me around all the time (my 17 yr old haha) I WANT to be available to them.

Very wise choice! Save your body it isn't worth it in the long run with children. And the part time jobs are a joke here.

 

[newgirl2012]

Don't laugh I've had helpers telling me they were told they would become drivers at the end of peak. They gave a bonus one year of $100 to helpers who worked everyday from the beginning. From what I heard they even tried to cheat them on that as well.

That is so sad!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Other Side]

Thank You, I have had a lot of negative feedback elsewhere about this decision, but I am happy to hear there are other people who still value family like I do.

One of the reasons you are getting bad feedback on your "story" is because it is only a "STORY". Seasonal Hires are not brought in this early in the year, and lastly, they are not given 12 hours worth of work in October. October is a training month. Slow starts and gradual increases in workload.

There are drivers being layed off at this time at various hubs as the volume is not heavy.

If in the first week of October, you were already at 200 stops and 12 hours, then you would have had to have been hired in September for peak, and that just doesnt happen anymore.

You talk the silly talk and now attempt to exit the conversation by saying you are simply quitting and going to do something else. I dont buy your story for one second.

In any event, even if your story were true, you were already behind the 8 ball by having a 6 year old child. Latch key children (as you claim) is the most unhealthy environment for a child, and this decision alone demonstrates you are incapable of making good decisions.

UPS will NEVER allow you the flexibility to handle the problems typical with 6 year old children. Sick at school, misbehaving, early release from school and such is what happens with 6 year old kids, unless they are NOT in school.

I found it hilarious how you had all the buzz words in line when you described the "environment" at UPS after peak.... "they are looking for more drivers due to retirements" and "they said they would hire me off the street"....

If this were true, the company would have to meet the 1 in 6 ratio in hiring, but in order for that to happen, the business would have to be BOOMING and volume uncontrollable, but unfortunately, projections for the first quarter are expected to be lower than 2012 and that means NO NEW HIRES.

So, the hope of walking in off the street will never come to pass as you would have to see 5 promotions from part time before you EVER saw the inside of a package car in 2013.

Your "story" while touching, I found to be ridiculous.

Any person, and I mean ANY person in this economy, who, when placed in a hardship, would work 16 hours a day to take care of their family obligations and self interests. There would be NO DISSCUSSION. Its hard work and tough decisions.

Instead, Im reading about emotions and loopholes.

Your "STORY" was creative, and I give you that much, but it was clearly without merit.

Peace

TOS

 

[newgirl2012]

One of the reasons you are getting bad feedback on your "story" is because it is only a "STORY". Seasonal Hires are not brought in this early in the year, and lastly, they are not given 12 hours worth of work in October. October is a training month. Slow starts and gradual increases in workload.

There are drivers being layed off at this time at various hubs as the volume is not heavy.

If in the first week of October, you were already at 200 stops and 12 hours, then you would have had to have been hired in September for peak, and that just doesnt happen anymore.

You talk the silly talk and now attempt to exit the conversation by saying you are simply quitting and going to do something else. I dont buy your story for one second.

In any event, even if your story were true, you were already behind the 8 ball by having a 6 year old child. Latch key children (as you claim) is the most unhealthy environment for a child, and this decision alone demonstrates you are incapable of making good decisions.

UPS will NEVER allow you the flexibility to handle the problems typical with 6 year old children. Sick at school, misbehaving, early release from school and such is what happens with 6 year old kids, unless they are NOT in school.

I found it hilarious how you had all the buzz words in line when you described the "environment" at UPS after peak.... "they are looking for more drivers due to retirements" and "they said they would hire me off the street"....

If this were true, the company would have to meet the 1 in 6 ratio in hiring, but in order for that to happen, the business would have to be BOOMING and volume uncontrollable, but unfortunately, projections for the first quarter are expected to be lower than 2012 and that means NO NEW HIRES.

So, the hope of walking in off the street will never come to pass as you would have to see 5 promotions from part time before you EVER saw the inside of a package car in 2013.

Your "story" while touching, I found to be ridiculous.

Any person, and I mean ANY person in this economy, who, when placed in a hardship, would work 16 hours a day to take care of their family obligations and self interests. There would be NO DISSCUSSION. Its hard work and tough decisions.

Instead, Im reading about emotions and loopholes.

Your "STORY" was creative, and I give you that much, but it was clearly without merit.

Peace

TOS

Seasonal Drivers are not brought in this early in the year? Really? Why then, was I hired as a seasonal driver in July? I went to a week of training then started driving a week before August. Why did they tell me when they hired me that their seasonal drivers work from May 1 through August 31, are terminated for 3 weeks, and then start up again the last week of September (which I did, September 24th to be exact) and work through Dec. 31?

How would you know what my sups were telling me? When I was hired, I was explained fully the "1 in 6 ratio in hiring" you mention, and HER WORDS TO ME were exactly this: "I cannot stress to you what an awesome opportunity this is, and what a great time it is for you to get your foot in the door, though I cannot guarantee you anything after the season is over, there are several retirements this year and I am told they are going to hire one off the street".

You speak of "latch key kids" and how it is not a good environment for a child, but then you state that anyone when placed in a hardship would work 16 hours a day to take care of their family, so you are criticizing either decision, which one is it exactly that you are saying is the bad decision?

Yep, I took a chance, and took this position, with the hopes of being able to provide wants as well as needs for my children, but couldn't possibly have understood how hard this all was going to be until I actually DID it. Maybe I didn't take everything into consideration, like how would I ever be able to pick up my children in the middle of the day if something happened at school, but then, never having a job like this before, it didn't really cross my mind. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so.

I am incapable of making good decisions? Why? Because I took a job that I was told was going to open all kinds of doors for me? So, if I believe what my sups tell me, that makes me incapable of making good decisions? Seriously, what is wrong with you? I already have another job....I did not leave until I found something else so that I would STILL be able to take care of myself and my children.....so that wasn't a bad decision...I really don't see any basis for anything you have said here.

My story was touching? How? Because I explained who I am so that people would understand why I was asking?

Yes, I had 187 stops on friday. I don't know why, becacuse usually I have around 95. I didn't get back to the center until 8:30 that evening. I don't know what is worse, the fact that you think someone could know as much as I do about this job having not ever done it, so you are basically accusing me of researching UPS or something to be able to make it sound like I actually have done this, or the fact that you have so much time on your hands you would sit down and read through all these forums and find someone to attack from behind your computer screen, and for what, because it apparently makes you feel manly? You must be a sup yourself because every single one that I had ever had the pleasure of talking to was just as ignorant, cocky, and just a straight up jack*** ......... exactly like you.

I came on here simply to ask people who are ALREADY in the business for advice on the job and what all of this was going to mean for me and my children. I did not come on here saying, "Hey, bet you can't guess if I'm telling a true story here".

If you honestly cannot come on here and just answer a question that you see someone has posted, why would you say anything at all? It's not affecting you, and you are obviously just full of yourself. I will never understand why hiding behind a computer and attacking someone makes people feel superior, but your ignorance about the human race in general is yet another reason for me to stay the hell away from this company.

Maybe you should try something else when you are hiring people on as a seasonal, like don't lie to them or paint pretty pictures. Tell them straight up "listen, we don't care about you, or your family, or anything that is going on in your life. All we care about is that you do the job we need you to do, and we are going to treat you like dirt, yell at you everyday for something you didn't do right, blame you when something goes wrong, and kick your ass out the door at the end of the season". I even had one of the sups tell me that I was not allowed to think for myself. Yes, he said "you do not make decisons, you do not think for yourself, you only do what you are told". I understand why so many people want in for the money and the benefits, but I personally don't think any of it is worth it. Giving up your kids and your life and destroy your body, and have the pleasure of working with people like YOU, for the money? No thanks.

 

[brown bomber]

try being a "male " driver with about 15 yrs. full-time.........who had their wife pass away...leaving you w/ 12 and 9 year old daughters....I did it...it can be done...it cost me several years, and beat the hell out of me....I was forced to retire, way to early ..due to disability..probably because work + home destroyed my body

by the way my daughters are super-stars....they meet and exceed every challenge

 

[The Other Side]

Seasonal Drivers are not brought in this early in the year? Really? Why then, was I hired as a seasonal driver in July? I went to a week of training then started driving a week before August. Why did they tell me when they hired me that their seasonal drivers work from May 1 through August 31, are terminated for 3 weeks, and then start up again the last week of September (which I did, September 24th to be exact) and work through Dec. 31?

How would you know what my sups were telling me? When I was hired, I was explained fully the "1 in 6 ratio in hiring" you mention, and HER WORDS TO ME were exactly this: "I cannot stress to you what an awesome opportunity this is, and what a great time it is for you to get your foot in the door, though I cannot guarantee you anything after the season is over, there are several retirements this year and I am told they are going to hire one off the street".

You speak of "latch key kids" and how it is not a good environment for a child, but then you state that anyone when placed in a hardship would work 16 hours a day to take care of their family, so you are criticizing either decision, which one is it exactly that you are saying is the bad decision?

Yep, I took a chance, and took this position, with the hopes of being able to provide wants as well as needs for my children, but couldn't possibly have understood how hard this all was going to be until I actually DID it. Maybe I didn't take everything into consideration, like how would I ever be able to pick up my children in the middle of the day if something happened at school, but then, never having a job like this before, it didn't really cross my mind. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so.

I am incapable of making good decisions? Why? Because I took a job that I was told was going to open all kinds of doors for me? So, if I believe what my sups tell me, that makes me incapable of making good decisions? Seriously, what is wrong with you? I already have another job....I did not leave until I found something else so that I would STILL be able to take care of myself and my children.....so that wasn't a bad decision...I really don't see any basis for anything you have said here.

My story was touching? How? Because I explained who I am so that people would understand why I was asking?

Yes, I had 187 stops on friday. I don't know why, becacuse usually I have around 95. I didn't get back to the center until 8:30 that evening. I don't know what is worse, the fact that you think someone could know as much as I do about this job having not ever done it, so you are basically accusing me of researching UPS or something to be able to make it sound like I actually have done this, or the fact that you have so much time on your hands you would sit down and read through all these forums and find someone to attack from behind your computer screen, and for what, because it apparently makes you feel manly? You must be a sup yourself because every single one that I had ever had the pleasure of talking to was just as ignorant, cocky, and just a straight up jack*** ......... exactly like you.

I came on here simply to ask people who are ALREADY in the business for advice on the job and what all of this was going to mean for me and my children. I did not come on here saying, "Hey, bet you can't guess if I'm telling a true story here".

If you honestly cannot come on here and just answer a question that you see someone has posted, why would you say anything at all? It's not affecting you, and you are obviously just full of yourself. I will never understand why hiding behind a computer and attacking someone makes people feel superior, but your ignorance about the human race in general is yet another reason for me to stay the hell away from this company.

Maybe you should try something else when you are hiring people on as a seasonal, like don't lie to them or paint pretty pictures. Tell them straight up "listen, we don't care about you, or your family, or anything that is going on in your life. All we care about is that you do the job we need you to do, and we are going to treat you like dirt, yell at you everyday for something you didn't do right, blame you when something goes wrong, and kick your ass out the door at the end of the season". I even had one of the sups tell me that I was not allowed to think for myself. Yes, he said "you do not make decisons, you do not think for yourself, you only do what you are told". I understand why so many people want in for the money and the benefits, but I personally don't think any of it is worth it. Giving up your kids and your life and destroy your body, and have the pleasure of working with people like YOU, for the money? No thanks.

WOW, looks like I hit nerve central. Listen, a single mother has many obligations, but so do single fathers. I know many of them. I have over 22 years of package experience under my belt, and believe me, Ive seen my share of single fathers and mothers. The one thing they have in common is the desire to do the right thing for their children. The LAST thing Ive seen them do is come onto a blogging board and seek advice.

The job at UPS is hard, demanding and ungrateful. Of all the single fathers ive worked with, NOT one of them felt the need to contemplate a good wage and benefits for some part time volunteer job. They do whatever it takes to survive and if that means long hours to pay for day care or child care, then thats what has to be done.

Your "story", I feel, was nothing more than an attention getter. Well, You got mine. You may not like what I say, but you ASKED for advice.

Next time, you may want to solicit for "good" advice only, then you wont face the scrutiny of people who dont buy your "STORY".

As for your admission that you leave both your children alone together unsupervised, well that is plain dangerous. Studies show that "latch key children" grow up to be involved with drugs and alcohol. They learn to disrespect authority as they are the authority for themselves. There is proper day care and child care available in every state and county. You posted that you wanted advice, well there it is.

I for one, would rather not see your children end up a statistic while you dily-daly your way through employers.

As for attacking you, I am hardly doing such. You solicited for advice and I provided you with some. Your "story" just doesnt add up and Im calling you out on it. Plain and Simple.

If you have moved on from UPS, then good luck on your next adventure. UPS is a tough place to work and it takes a tough person to work here.

There is no room for self doubters.

Peace

TOS

 

[brett636]

New Girl- don't take TOS's hostility too seriously. He has attacked so many people around here personally that a moderator has to approve all of his posts before we are able to see them. He also gets things wrong frequently, and I am convinced he is wrong on you too.

After reading this thread and your decision I am convinced you made the right one. I don't think your supervisor was lieing to you when he said you could be hired on after peak, but he wasn't telling you the whole truth. Odds are very good you could only be hired back as an inside part time worker, and you already know that won't work for your situation. Being a part-timer is really a job for someone who is just out of highschool with little or no real bills or responsibilities which is why it worked out fine for me when I was 18 living with my parents(and $1.50/gal. for gas was considered expensive). An adult in today's world with kids just wouldn't be able to afford the necessities of life without taking a 2nd(or 3rd) part time job which would then cut into your time with your kids. Goodluck with your new job and take solace that you are doing so with no regrets!

 

[bumped]

Even if you are told UPS will be hiring an off the strret full time driver after peak it won't be right away. In early January, even if heavy we have been able to use part timers as helpers. By the end of January through the beginning of March it gets slow(other than a couple days for V-Day). With the slow period and very few people wanting winter vacations the earliest a full timer would come on is probably April.

 

[sortaisle]

Newgirl2012, don't take what everyone here has said to heart. Situations are different for every Hub and Center for UPS. Some areas hire drivers off the street constantly because of demand and they're in a state that isn't union friendly. Some places like mine for example have a 10-12 year waiting list. So...here are some facts. You are already qualified to drive and that means that if they need "utility" help, then you'll drive at the current utility wage (different for each region...ours is 24 something an hour...) you can also do air driving which only starts at 12.50 but after 3 years is higher...mine is 25 something...it is possible that you're in a region that hires quickly. Odds are you'll be hired to work in the hub part time. 8.50 an hour or if your minimum wage is higher in the state then at that wage (example WA is 9.03 an hour). Hope you're happy with your choice. This is a hard place to raise a family. The divorce rate is rough. But having kids especially an older one is not so bad. The 6 year old will grow out of mommy's boy stage. I'm a single dad of a 6 and 7 year old. My parents raised me just fine and both worked fulltime. It's the quality of the time you spend with them, not the quantity of time. So adjust your situation to those facts and good luck!

 

[The Other Side]

My supervisor has told me that I am doing a fantastic job, and they are very happy with me, and that after the season is over (DEC 31) he has no problem keeping me on and finding me a position inside and possibly having me drive as needed.

How would you know what my sups were telling me? When I was hired, I was explained fully the "1 in 6 ratio in hiring" you mention, and HER WORDS TO ME were exactly this: "I cannot stress to you what an awesome opportunity this is, and what a great time it is for you to get your foot in the door, though I cannot guarantee you anything after the season is over, there are several retirements this year and I am told they are going to hire one off the street".


So which was it?? Was it "HE" that told you or "HER" that told you the same thing.

You contradicted yourself.

Peace

TOS

 

[newgirl2012]

Newgirl2012, don't take what everyone here has said to heart. Situations are different for every Hub and Center for UPS. Some areas hire drivers off the street constantly because of demand and they're in a state that isn't union friendly. Some places like mine for example have a 10-12 year waiting list. So...here are some facts. You are already qualified to drive and that means that if they need "utility" help, then you'll drive at the current utility wage (different for each region...ours is 24 something an hour...) you can also do air driving which only starts at 12.50 but after 3 years is higher...mine is 25 something...it is possible that you're in a region that hires quickly. Odds are you'll be hired to work in the hub part time. 8.50 an hour or if your minimum wage is higher in the state then at that wage (example WA is 9.03 an hour). Hope you're happy with your choice. This is a hard place to raise a family. The divorce rate is rough. But having kids especially an older one is not so bad. The 6 year old will grow out of mommy's boy stage. I'm a single dad of a 6 and 7 year old. My parents raised me just fine and both worked fulltime. It's the quality of the time you spend with them, not the quantity of time. So adjust your situation to those facts and good luck!

Thanks sortaisle. You're right about every hub being different, obviously. I understand completely about the quality vs. quantity of time, however, each person's situation is unique as well, and the schedule for a driver doesn't only take time from my family, but it does interfere with a lot of toher VERY important things that me and my children have to deal with at this point in our lives.

Thank You for at least giving a complete stranger some sincerity and respect.

 

[newgirl2012]

New Girl- don't take TOS's hostility too seriously. He has attacked so many people around here personally that a moderator has to approve all of his posts before we are able to see them. He also gets things wrong frequently, and I am convinced he is wrong on you too.

After reading this thread and your decision I am convinced you made the right one. I don't think your supervisor was lieing to you when he said you could be hired on after peak, but he wasn't telling you the whole truth. Odds are very good you could only be hired back as an inside part time worker, and you already know that won't work for your situation. Being a part-timer is really a job for someone who is just out of highschool with little or no real bills or responsibilities which is why it worked out fine for me when I was 18 living with my parents(and $1.50/gal. for gas was considered expensive). An adult in today's world with kids just wouldn't be able to afford the necessities of life without taking a 2nd(or 3rd) part time job which would then cut into your time with your kids. Goodluck with your new job and take solace that you are doing so with no regrets!

Thank You Brett636!!! I pretty much have always been one to seek out the opinions of others when I have a hard time making a decision, I do not know why, but maybe it's something I could use to my advantage when I am taking the next step in my life. I think when other people say the same things I was already thinking, it just validates things somehow for me, and you have done that as have many other people on here. Please know I appreciate it very much

 

[newgirl2012]

WOW, looks like I hit nerve central. Listen, a single mother has many obligations, but so do single fathers. I know many of them. I have over 22 years of package experience under my belt, and believe me, Ive seen my share of single fathers and mothers. The one thing they have in common is the desire to do the right thing for their children. The LAST thing Ive seen them do is come onto a blogging board and seek advice.

The job at UPS is hard, demanding and ungrateful. Of all the single fathers ive worked with, NOT one of them felt the need to contemplate a good wage and benefits for some part time volunteer job. They do whatever it takes to survive and if that means long hours to pay for day care or child care, then thats what has to be done.

Your "story", I feel, was nothing more than an attention getter. Well, You got mine. You may not like what I say, but you ASKED for advice.

Next time, you may want to solicit for "good" advice only, then you wont face the scrutiny of people who dont buy your "STORY".

As for your admission that you leave both your children alone together unsupervised, well that is plain dangerous. Studies show that "latch key children" grow up to be involved with drugs and alcohol. They learn to disrespect authority as they are the authority for themselves. There is proper day care and child care available in every state and county. You posted that you wanted advice, well there it is.

I for one, would rather not see your children end up a statistic while you dily-daly your way through employers.

As for attacking you, I am hardly doing such. You solicited for advice and I provided you with some. Your "story" just doesnt add up and Im calling you out on it. Plain and Simple.

If you have moved on from UPS, then good luck on your next adventure. UPS is a tough place to work and it takes a tough person to work here.

There is no room for self doubters.

Peace

TOS

Narcissits make me laugh

 

[toonertoo]

Newgirl 2012. You are very much appreciated here, others not so much. Their very being is filled with hatred. yes, It can be done, and given a choice I feel you made the right one. Brown bomber already had too much time in to turn back and I commend him for being the wonderful father he surely was. I have a friend, at UPS, who also lost his wife at a very young AGE, she was 32 ,I think. and his kids were very young. She was a nurse He succeeded also, and his kids are gems also. She never smoked or drank, and I watched as she slipped away of pancreatic cancer. It was very sad, too sad, but he took care of them the best he could, and hes still there also, ready to get the circle of honor, but HE HAD family help from both sides of the family.
When it comes down to it, you do what you have to do. You are and I commend you. Please ignore the negativity on this thread, if we took a poll it would be new girl, +100, negativity in the tank.