Af-Pak Fever
- Thread starter wkmac
- Start date
diesel96
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying I agree with Obama or not, but can you provide a link where Obama campaigned on the premise of NOT resuming military force in the Afgh/Paki region to capture/kill Ben Laden and dissolve the growing presence of Al Qaeda. Isn't it fair to say not ALL Obamaites are anti-war, but mostly anti-Iraq.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Either you never read the articles or you've read something into them that IMO was never said or suggested. As much as some would love to make Obama's 2002' so-called "anti-war speech" much more than it was and that goes for both sides, Obama in that speech nor in any other to my knowledge ever opposed Afghanistan nor the mission there. Iraq, yes but Afghanistan, never to my knowledge.
The articles challenge Obama on the policy and thinking behind his current decision process for Afghanistan and the surrounding region. The thrust as I read them was he's following Bush's footsteps instead of using "Change" as we were promised. Democrats waxed oh so much during the election cycle about the failures of Bush across the Middle East region but now he seems posed to follow that exact framework as he now has control.
Are these the rantings of a micro-minority of paleo-con/libertarian types who are a bunch of spoiled sports? Could be but then you'd have to include the mainstreet media in that minority as they are coming to the same conclusions!
In both op-ed pieces there are numerous links to supportive articles and I'd recommend reading many of them as well. Also it seems the head of NATO is also not happy with Obama's plan as Obama seems to be bringing his own plans of Cowboy diplomacy to Washington. If Bush was a "Cowboy" then Obama seems hell bent of being "Black Bart!"
I also find it interesting that in the 8 years of Bush, you along with others cried foul at every Bush turn because there seemed no real evidence to support the conclusions used to justify foreign policy and military moves made by Chene...I mean Bush and Company.
Now it appears we have the shoe on the other foot and I refer to this from Justin Raimondo in his peice linked earlier:
Now we that are in the micro minority movement say the same thing you guys did for 8 years and now out of the blue we are wrong? We are the bad guys? I guess if we kept this up the next thing we'll hear is that we are anti-American and un-patriotic too! With the Patriot Act and all the accessive powers and surveil authority of Bush left in tact, maybe they are cleaning out Gitmo to send us of the micro minority there. Well, it will give you an excuse to wave the flag and thus the arm skyward to salute the brillance of your Fuhrer.
Besides, it seems the Russians are looking closer at classical economics so maybe the future is in Cuba. Also explains a lot of why Washington is picking a fight with Russia. Gold backed currency would sure slow down if not stop the fiat money printing press and Washington can't have that! Maybe Russia also understands a currency limited by gold can't be manipulated for political purposes with schemes like the Community Reinvestment Act and HomeOwnership Society but then who wants that old neanderthal economics anyway when you can have all the chaos we have now allowing Washington to ever expand it's power. Besides, they know it's by fear and fear alone that they get your vote so crisis and fear is what you'll get!
BE HAPPY!
The articles challenge Obama on the policy and thinking behind his current decision process for Afghanistan and the surrounding region. The thrust as I read them was he's following Bush's footsteps instead of using "Change" as we were promised. Democrats waxed oh so much during the election cycle about the failures of Bush across the Middle East region but now he seems posed to follow that exact framework as he now has control.
Are these the rantings of a micro-minority of paleo-con/libertarian types who are a bunch of spoiled sports? Could be but then you'd have to include the mainstreet media in that minority as they are coming to the same conclusions!
In both op-ed pieces there are numerous links to supportive articles and I'd recommend reading many of them as well. Also it seems the head of NATO is also not happy with Obama's plan as Obama seems to be bringing his own plans of Cowboy diplomacy to Washington. If Bush was a "Cowboy" then Obama seems hell bent of being "Black Bart!"
I also find it interesting that in the 8 years of Bush, you along with others cried foul at every Bush turn because there seemed no real evidence to support the conclusions used to justify foreign policy and military moves made by Chene...I mean Bush and Company.
Now it appears we have the shoe on the other foot and I refer to this from Justin Raimondo in his peice linked earlier:Now we that are in the micro minority movement say the same thing you guys did for 8 years and now out of the blue we are wrong? We are the bad guys? I guess if we kept this up the next thing we'll hear is that we are anti-American and un-patriotic too! With the Patriot Act and all the accessive powers and surveil authority of Bush left in tact, maybe they are cleaning out Gitmo to send us of the micro minority there. Well, it will give you an excuse to wave the flag and thus the arm skyward to salute the brillance of your Fuhrer.
Besides, it seems the Russians are looking closer at classical economics so maybe the future is in Cuba. Also explains a lot of why Washington is picking a fight with Russia. Gold backed currency would sure slow down if not stop the fiat money printing press and Washington can't have that! Maybe Russia also understands a currency limited by gold can't be manipulated for political purposes with schemes like the Community Reinvestment Act and HomeOwnership Society but then who wants that old neanderthal economics anyway when you can have all the chaos we have now allowing Washington to ever expand it's power. Besides, they know it's by fear and fear alone that they get your vote so crisis and fear is what you'll get!
BE HAPPY!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
And here is a voice from the so-called liberal/progressive side that is basically making the same observations as well.
Obama's domino theory
I wouldn't class Juan Cole into the paleo-con/libertarian ranks by any stretch! Or what about Ron Jacob's piece from the liberal/progressive Counterpunch website.
Obama's Pakistan Gambit
Ron's work on the Weather Underground and his self professed hardcore liberal beliefs also excludes him from the heartless minions of Rothbardian puppets.
But what's funniest of all is while you guys parade around extolling your messiah as he follows the Bush footpath of war and empire, now we get hints of trouble in paradise that Obama is also doing the same on the issue of labor so now what will you do?
You guys are slowly getting screwed by you own kind and the best part is it comes with no kiss, not even a passionate reach around!
Obama's domino theory
I wouldn't class Juan Cole into the paleo-con/libertarian ranks by any stretch! Or what about Ron Jacob's piece from the liberal/progressive Counterpunch website.
Obama's Pakistan Gambit
Ron's work on the Weather Underground and his self professed hardcore liberal beliefs also excludes him from the heartless minions of Rothbardian puppets.
But what's funniest of all is while you guys parade around extolling your messiah as he follows the Bush footpath of war and empire, now we get hints of trouble in paradise that Obama is also doing the same on the issue of labor so now what will you do?
You guys are slowly getting screwed by you own kind and the best part is it comes with no kiss, not even a passionate reach around!
diesel96
Well-Known Member
wkmac, here's an article back in july 2008, on the campaign trail, stating exactly how an Obama Adm was planning to handle Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25676250/
It's pretty clearcut Obamaites knew his position when punching the Presidential ballets last Nov., withdrawing troops, setting a "timetable" in Iraq, concentrating more troops in Afghanistan and having a dialoge with the enemy. I'd say your right, there is no "change". There's no change from his campaign promises. Could it be thats why Obamaites are silent?
Could you cut the guy some slack and allow him 16 months (not 3 months) to fullfill his campaign promises ? Believe me, if there's no end in sight by then, you'll have more Ex-Obamaite supporters with mega-phones on top of your soapbox
then you care to have.
Whats with this bombardment of LewRockwell, Salon, Counterpunch and Anti-War ? A campaign run for a third party 2012 "Messiah"...lol
Maybe your theme song can be "Af-Pak Fever" to the tune of Ted Nugent's "Cat Scratch Fever".
I know what your up to Conrad.....
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25676250/
It's pretty clearcut Obamaites knew his position when punching the Presidential ballets last Nov., withdrawing troops, setting a "timetable" in Iraq, concentrating more troops in Afghanistan and having a dialoge with the enemy. I'd say your right, there is no "change". There's no change from his campaign promises. Could it be thats why Obamaites are silent?
Could you cut the guy some slack and allow him 16 months (not 3 months) to fullfill his campaign promises ? Believe me, if there's no end in sight by then, you'll have more Ex-Obamaite supporters with mega-phones on top of your soapbox
then you care to have.Whats with this bombardment of LewRockwell, Salon, Counterpunch and Anti-War ? A campaign run for a third party 2012 "Messiah"...lol
Maybe your theme song can be "Af-Pak Fever" to the tune of Ted Nugent's "Cat Scratch Fever".
I know what your up to Conrad.....
wkmac
Well-Known Member
wkmac, here's an article back in july 2008, on the campaign trail, stating exactly how an Obama Adm was planning to handle Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25676250/
Again, the articles are not about his position given during the campaign about Afghanistan as neither the articles nor I dispute that. He did campaign on change but he's being sucked into the dead end road of the Bush doctrine. Even worse that Obama is following the Bush doctrine is now it's being alleged that Cheney has moles planted in the midst of the new adminstration. As Hollywoodish as that might seem on the surface, history has proven over and over that fact is stranger than fiction.
It's pretty clearcut Obamaites knew his position when punching the Presidential ballets last Nov., withdrawing troops, setting a "timetable" in Iraq, concentrating more troops in Afghanistan and having a dialoge with the enemy. I'd say your right, there is no "change". There's no change from his campaign promises. Could it be thats why Obamaites are silent?
Could you cut the guy some slack and allow him 16 months (not 3 months) to fullfill his campaign promises ? Believe me, if there's no end in sight by then, you'll have more Ex-Obamaite supporters with mega-phones on top of your soapbox
If you see someone headed in an obvious bad direction, do you "cut him some slack" and allow him to go ahead and make a tragic mistake or do you speak out in the hopes that if he hears and realizes there are enough behind him, he just might ignore the beast of Washington and actually do the right thing?
As for you guys revolting against the democrat machine when the time is obvious? I'll expect to see about as much revolt as I saw from so-called conservative republicans when it became exceeedingly obvious what Bush and company were really all about along with the so-called conservative Congress. Hell, even Rush didn't "RUSH" back to true conservatism until his party was out of power and the the new owners were in town. That's why he and others like Hannity, etc. are such hypocrites. I even heard someone the other day call Neal Boortz a "fibberterian" which I got a real chuckle from.
Whats with this bombardment of LewRockwell, Salon, Counterpunch and Anti-War ? A campaign run for a third party 2012 "Messiah"...lol
Maybe your theme song can be "Af-Pak Fever" to the tune of Ted Nugent's "Cat Scratch Fever".
I know what your up to Conrad.....
And it's working too!
Washington is not to be trusted by any side or on anything. Make them prove everything. President Obama campaigned on accountability and transparency so surely you'd not object if I agree with him and demand it on all fronts from the gov't! I'm just holding him to his promise.
Back @ ya!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
OK, well what about Asia Times and their op-ed on
The secrets of Obama's surge
And do you think these democrats are setting up a "messiah" run in 2012' too?
BTW D, there is a real good chance I've voted in my last election for American President so a 2012' "messiah" run has little interest to me!
Conrad to COMRADE, wake up sleepy head!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
You know it's funny how it takes an election to really show there is no real difference in politics. There's no doubt IMO that the Neo-libs and Neo-Cons are the same rotten fruit from the same posion tree.
diesel96
Well-Known Member
You know its funny, in his latest interview, ex-VP Dick doesn't think the two administrations are the same rotten fruit. I think he believes we are much less safer. I wonder if his alleged moles are lying to him....
wkmac
Well-Known Member
You know its funny, in his latest interview, ex-VP Dick doesn't think the two administrations are the same rotten fruit. I think he believes we are much less safer. I wonder if his alleged moles are lying to him....
You can't trust Cheney. He's dillusional and even shot a fellow lawyer thinking it was Saddam!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
A Full-Court Press for Pakistan War
Watch it, here it comes!
Petraeus: al-Qaida not operating in Afghanistan
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Very interesting interview with Jeremy Scahill on AntiWar Radio on Radio KAOS Austin Texas with host Scott Horton.
It covers the situation with the antiwar/peace movement and the democrat party/Obama adminstration post election, various issues and then in the last 5 minutes an interesting discussion on the Obama birth certificate from a different angle.
It covers the situation with the antiwar/peace movement and the democrat party/Obama adminstration post election, various issues and then in the last 5 minutes an interesting discussion on the Obama birth certificate from a different angle.
moreluck
golden ticket member
It's a start....now stop it all!!!
(The Hill) — Senate appropriators unanimously voted Thursday to cut Pakistani aid by $33 million, or $1 million for every year a Pakistani doctor will spend in prison for helping the CIA find Osama bin Laden.
While the cut represents a small fraction of U.S. aid to Pakistan, the 30-0 vote in favor of the amendment from Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) highlights a new low in tensions between the two countries sparked by Wednesday’s sentencing in Pakistan of Shakil Afridi on treason charges by a tribal court.
Afridi used a vaccination drive to try to get DNA samples from people inside the compound where bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan. While he was unsuccessful, U.S. officials say he helped an intelligence program that led to the killing of bin Laden.
“This conviction says to me that al-Qaeda is viewed by the court to be Pakistan,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said during the mark-up. “I don’t know which side of the war Pakistan is on. This makes me seriously question our financial support to Pakistan.”
While the cut represents a small fraction of U.S. aid to Pakistan, the 30-0 vote in favor of the amendment from Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) highlights a new low in tensions between the two countries sparked by Wednesday’s sentencing in Pakistan of Shakil Afridi on treason charges by a tribal court.
Afridi used a vaccination drive to try to get DNA samples from people inside the compound where bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan. While he was unsuccessful, U.S. officials say he helped an intelligence program that led to the killing of bin Laden.
“This conviction says to me that al-Qaeda is viewed by the court to be Pakistan,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said during the mark-up. “I don’t know which side of the war Pakistan is on. This makes me seriously question our financial support to Pakistan.”
moreluck
golden ticket member
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The U.S. cut off funding for the project and launched an investigation after receiving what it deemed to be credible allegations of fraud and abuse on a telephone hotline set up by the U.S. Agency for International Development in Pakistan, said U.S. State Department spokesman Mark Toner.
moreluck
golden ticket member
And yet we still give them billions of dollars a year in financial and military aid.
(PressTV) — Three-in-four Pakistanis consider the United States an enemy country, a new survey conducted by the Washington-based Pew Global Attitudes Project indicates.
The Pew survey, which was published on its website on Wednesday, said that last year 69 percent used to hate the US but in 2012 the figure jumped to 74 percent.
The survey also showed an exceptionally low regard for US President Barack Obama among Pakistanis. They believe Obama is as bad a leader as former US President George W. Bush had been during his final year in office.
US-Pakistan relations have been strained over the civilian casualties caused by the non-UN-sanctioned US drone attacks, and over a number of other issues.
Under intense public pressure, Islamabad closed the border crossings used to transfer NATO supplies to US-led forces occupying Afghanistan in November 2011 after 24 Pakistani soldiers were killed in US-led airstrikes on two checkpoints on the Afghan border.
The Pew survey, which was published on its website on Wednesday, said that last year 69 percent used to hate the US but in 2012 the figure jumped to 74 percent.
The survey also showed an exceptionally low regard for US President Barack Obama among Pakistanis. They believe Obama is as bad a leader as former US President George W. Bush had been during his final year in office.
US-Pakistan relations have been strained over the civilian casualties caused by the non-UN-sanctioned US drone attacks, and over a number of other issues.
Under intense public pressure, Islamabad closed the border crossings used to transfer NATO supplies to US-led forces occupying Afghanistan in November 2011 after 24 Pakistani soldiers were killed in US-led airstrikes on two checkpoints on the Afghan border.
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