All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E C

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

A convenient twist to the serenity prayer.
Unfortunately we aren't talking about a disease like alcoholism, rather a lack of dishonesty and integrity.
If enough people are concerned enough about any issue, change is attainable.
Apathy and complacency affords people exactly what they deserve.

Knock yourself out.
 

cosmo1

Perhaps.
Staff member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I think your implications with the "we" is misleading.
I think all management (who are people just like all of us) cares about some of their people and some people may care about all of the people that report to them.
I think it is more reasonable to assume that management people care more about some of their people than they do for other people who report to them ... that's just being human.
It's probably safe to assume that many management people don't care about a few of their people at all. Certainly was true with me when I was in operations.

Management does care about your safety though they may not always care about you. Accidents and injuries are expensive.

The impression I got from Tie was that management does care about your safety though they may not always care about you.

Basically, we are cogs.
 

cosmo1

Perhaps.
Staff member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

you guys dont want to believe that any of us in management care about our people therefore I stopped going through the wasted exercise of aruging that point.

Well, there's your problem.
 

browned out

Well-Known Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

This strikes me as silly to say it is a question of integrity.

Rules are put in place by the chain of command for the drivers to follow. If the people who put those rules in place make the decision to use EC in this instance and direct you to do so, then do it.
The government has laws that you cannot carry a gun (in many states) but then carry guns themselves ... there are always two sets of rules if you look at things superficially but if one thinks about then there is usually a logical and good reason for it.

I'm sure, if you have kids, there are many rules for them to follow but you do those things they aren't suppose to do. For instance, your kids may not be allowed to adjust the thermostat on the HVAC but you do it all the time. You pay the bills, you understand the consequences. Whoever made this decision that you refer to either had the authority to do so or they got permission from someone who did.

We have had drivers terminated and not re instated for much less that this. UPS is all about ethics. We had a driver fired this year for sheeting a NDA business saver COD off route at 2:59(sheeted NM1) after he called the business and asked them if they had the check. If my kid adjusts the thermostat without my permission; I don't kick him out of the house and direct him to where the nearest homeless shelter is. This is a loony argument.

Sheet the packages as missed; don't lie just to pad the numbers and bring down the paid day.

I would have no problem with this if UPS would allow drivers to use EC whenever they want or NI1 residential for a NDA saver to a business after 3:00 or NR for a package they found after they got back to the center. This is not and should not be the case as these are all examples of falsification of records.


This is not UPS policy. Ethics are of utmost importance per the current CEO all the way back to Jim Casey. I will write a few letters to different departments to corporate in Atlanta. I will include self addressed stamped envelopes for their response. I have worked here 21 years and have not seen anything that demoralized all 60 or so drivers in our center.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

We have had drivers terminated and not re instated for much less that this. UPS is all about ethics. We had a driver fired this year for sheeting a NDA business saver COD off route at 2:59(sheeted NM1) after he called the business and asked them if they had the check. If my kid adjusts the thermostat without my permission; I don't him out of the house and direct him to where the nearest homeless shelter is. This is a loony argument.

Sheet the packages as missed; don't lie just to pad the numbers and bring down the paid day.

I would have no problem with this if UPS would allow drivers to use EC whenever they want or NI1 residential for a NDA saver to a business after 3:00 or NR for a package they found after they got back to the center. This is not and should not be the case as these are all examples of falsification of records.


This is not UPS policy. Ethics are of utmost importance per the current CEO all the way back to Jim Casey. I will write a few letters to different departments to corporate in Atlanta. I will include self addressed stamped envelopes for their response. I have worked here 21 years and have not seen anything that demoralized all 60 or so drivers in our center.


Good for you ... go for it. I feel better already.

Don't waste your money on the self-addressed stamped envelopes. UPS sends out form-letters on UPS letterhead and envelopes.
 

tieguy

Banned
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

We have had drivers terminated and not re instated for much less that this. UPS is all about ethics. We had a driver fired this year for sheeting a NDA business saver COD off route at 2:59(sheeted NM1) after he called the business and asked them if they had the check. If my kid adjusts the thermostat without my permission; I don't kick him out of the house and direct him to where the nearest homeless shelter is. This is a loony argument.

Sheet the packages as missed; don't lie just to pad the numbers and bring down the paid day.

I would have no problem with this if UPS would allow drivers to use EC whenever they want or NI1 residential for a NDA saver to a business after 3:00 or NR for a package they found after they got back to the center. This is not and should not be the case as these are all examples of falsification of records.


This is not UPS policy. Ethics are of utmost importance per the current CEO all the way back to Jim Casey. I will write a few letters to different departments to corporate in Atlanta. I will include self addressed stamped envelopes for their response. I have worked here 21 years and have not seen anything that demoralized all 60 or so drivers in our center.

we are lucky you have taken on this important mission to save us. Have you met integrity ( the guy in the yellow pj's?)
 

BrownSuit

Well-Known Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I couldn't easily pull up any historical weather specifically for the 14th when the OP posted, but what I was able to find from Google was a large number of schools that were closed both Monday (13th) and Tuesday (14th) around the Detroit area and the Great Lakes District (OP's district) offices in Livonia, MI.

So I understand that the weather specifically where the OP was at may not have been bad, but folks they don't close school in the Great Lakes area just for a little bit of snow. This sounds more like a District decision that while may not have made a lot of sense to the OP where they were out, across the district made sense. Chances are it was an issue more with ice on the roads than anything.

This may have been something that we would not have seen previously in the pre-transformation structure where the OP would have been in one of two districts or just a few years ago where there would have been four separate districts covering this area.

If anybody has any websites they know of that would show historical weather for last week, I think we would have the rest of the story here. If anybody else is from those parts and would care to chime in on specifics of the weather last Monday/Tuesday, that would be helpful.
 

Signature Only

Blue in Brown
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I don't hate management. 99% of them are really good, decent people. But that 1%, with their money and influence, do so much damage. Remember Love Canal, the housing crash, the Ireland banking crisis, the current problems in Korea and the Ivory coast? All examples of a few people placing greed above all else. .... I wonder how Bernie Madoff and his wife feel now that their oldest son is gone?
Dont twist what I said to make it more then what I said.

you guys dont want to believe that any of us in management care about our people therefore I stopped going through the wasted exercise of aruging that point.

However those of you who live in the world of corporate evil screwing the working man will believe that management will try to improve safety to save money.

What I did with that statement was prove that management does care about safety on a level that fits your hate trip for management.
 

Signature Only

Blue in Brown
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Tie... he has a good point. What really drives employees crazy is lack of consistency, coherence and integrity in management. Preloader, driver or regional manager; you need to do your best to serve the customers....Without them, we'd all be on the streets.
we are lucky you have taken on this important mission to save us. Have you met integrity ( the guy in the yellow pj's?)
 

tieguy

Banned
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Tie... he has a good point. What really drives employees crazy is lack of consistency, coherence and integrity in management. Preloader, driver or regional manager; you need to do your best to serve the customers....Without them, we'd all be on the streets.

consistency in the decision or the lack of it is not always a lack of integrity. The debate you have here as to when to use the EC code you sometimes have amongst the decision makers.
 

browne clown

New Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Here in our center its cut,cut &cut runs.Then they send drivers out way over dispatched knowing they wont finish.Some drivers bring back 30-50 stops a day with some packages taking an extra 2-3 days to get delivered.Its not about saftey for drivers but making the stops per car that they think should be delivered.Customer service in this center is gone by the wayside.Some drivers sheet up as EC while some sheet up as missed guess it really doesnt matter its not very good customer serviceBut misload a package thats a service failure .
 

Signature Only

Blue in Brown
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I can tell it's been a while since you've had to look in the eyes of those who are affected by your decisions. I see them everyday....They're called customers. When you make decisions, like when not to meet their expectations, it's critical to see things through their eyes. Those folks know that things happen...their businesses are subject to forces beyond their control. But most have been in business a lot longer than you've been alive and they know the difference between service and fast talking.
consistency in the decision or the lack of it is not always a lack of integrity. The debate you have here as to when to use the EC code you sometimes have amongst the decision makers.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

One of our Lake Placid drivers was telling me yesterday morning that he got yelled at last week for delivering all of the work on his car. He punched out at 2030, which put him over 9.5, but was able to get rid of everything. The center manager told him that he should have been back by 1845 and EC'd the rest. The drivers response was that the roads were passable, the work would not just magically disappear and bringing back 30-40 would have started a snowball effect which would have lasted through Christmas Eve.

I applauded the driver for his resolve. That is what we used to call customer service.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Yup, too bad he'll get a warning letter for Christmas this year.

The center manager is old school and I think he privately agreed with what the driver did but had to pass along the directive from above. No warning letter but don't let it happen again.
 

tieguy

Banned
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I can tell it's been a while since you've had to look in the eyes of those who are affected by your decisions. I see them everyday....They're called customers. When you make decisions, like when not to meet their expectations, it's critical to see things through their eyes. Those folks know that things happen...their businesses are subject to forces beyond their control. But most have been in business a lot longer than you've been alive and they know the difference between service and fast talking.

to have this discussion you have to respect the perspectives of those who offer their insight. I got mocked by one or two snipers here for claiming experience in this subject but as a feeder manager and person who specifically worked in this service arena in the past I have the knowledge of the process. I'm not removed from the battle front as your post alludes but do meet and discuss the service aspects with our shippers on a regular basis though I do so more so with the larger shippers then the ones you deal with. Many of these shippers had my personal cell phone and would call me anytime they needed something from me including the weekends. I would think the difference in our perspectives as your posts indirectly touchs on is that the smaller shipper you deal with may not understand the EC coding as well as the larger shippers I deal with. I think you have an obligation to understand how the weather in another part of the country can affect the performance of air shipments in your area and to explain it to your shippers when you see that look in their eyes.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I can tell it's been a while since you've had to look in the eyes of those who are affected by your decisions. I see them everyday....They're called customers. When you make decisions, like when not to meet their expectations, it's critical to see things through their eyes. Those folks know that things happen...their businesses are subject to forces beyond their control. But most have been in business a lot longer than you've been alive and they know the difference between service and fast talking.

Good speech ... now pass me the Cheerios please.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Yup, too bad he'll get a warning letter for Christmas this year.
\

I would love to be a spectator at the panel hearing where the company was attempting to suspend or otherwise discipline a driver for making service on packages.

For that matter, I wouldnt even mind being the one who got suspended. It would be worth the loss of a days pay just to get to sit there and look the company rep in the eye while he tried to make his "argument" before the committee.

I understand and respect the fact that we have to work as directed, but it would sure be nice if, just once, one of the cubicle-dwellers who spew out all of these silly and conflicting instructions had to show up at a panel hearing and take some accountability for his own stupidity.
 
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