Amazon orders 20000 vans

Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by zeev, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. zeev

    zeev Active Member

    Watch out Fedex and UPS the monster is coming to crush you.
     
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  2. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Where did you hear this? Then again given all the more you can get in one of those panel vans you might be better off with an F250 with a cap on it.
     
  3. Operational needs

    Operational needs Virescit Vulnere Virtus

    Good. Maybe I’ll start having decent days.
     
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  4. zeev

    zeev Active Member

    Just announced and they will be all concentrated in major population areas.
     
  5. Fred's Myth

    Fred's Myth Nonhyphenated American

    Was it announced by the voices in your head, or do you have a source?!
     
  6. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

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  7. Indecisi0n

    Indecisi0n Well-Known Member

    Maybe after this fails we will finally be getting Amazon back as a customer.
     
  8. zeev

    zeev Active Member

    Voices in Jeff Bezos head
     
  9. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Better hope that they are all in snow and ice free regions Sprinters rust out in an incredibly short period of time. If you have one you're lucky if it will last long enough for you to get it paid off. They only vehicle I've seen that rusted out faster was the first Subaru's brought over here in the mid 1970's.

    In addition the cost of parts and repairs for Sprinter's are staggering . Not a lot of after market parts available and not that many after market mechanics are willing to work on them.
     
  10. Cactus

    Cactus Just telling it like it is

    Bullseye!

    They suck big time when it’s windy too. And If these things are gonna using DEF fluid there’s major trouble on the horizon. Nothing but crap.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  11. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    The Dodge Sprinters were pretty bad. The Mercedes Sprinters are pretty decent. Sprinters are used all over the country now so what's the big deal? They're fine for metro areas.
     
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  12. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    How could one be different from another? They're the same damn thing. Just a different name plate. We had a few of them but have long since been replaced with GM and Ford units for the very reasons that have been discussed earlier. Yes a bit easier on fuel but repair costs and premature rust out easily offset the fuel economy.

    Granted they might be ok for salt free metro areas where you're tires never come in contact with an unpaved surface but metro areas are not "all over the country".
     
  13. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    No, they aren't the same thing. Mercedes are bigger, bigger engines, higher quality. Dodge Sprinters were junk that started out ok but deteriorated. And these are already highly used in all conditions by FedEx and UPS so it's not like Amazon made a stupid decision buying them.
     
  14. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Regardless of the name plate they were all built by Daimler on the same assembly line using the same flimsy, rust prone unibody construction and here in the rust prone Mid Atlantic region people I know who had them told me that Ford and GM dealers in the area refused to take their them in on trade.
    Sure they might be ok in certain parts of the country and used for certain low stress tasks but hauling max loads on a continuous daily basis in this little piece of heaven ........well, that's why you don't see them around here anymore.
     
  15. Old Man Jingles

    Old Man Jingles Rat out of a cage

    I found this interesting and very relevant to UPS drivers ... it portends the inevitable conclusion that Amazon will not own or control these vehicles or employees.
    It will mirror the FedEx Ground business model.

    In other words, no possibility of Unionization.
     
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  16. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    What some Amazon contractors may not realize is that their employees are under collective bargaining and can vote to join a union. No doubt there will be greedy Amazon contractors who will try to get to the maximum number of routes quickly which I believe is 40 without realizing this fact. The opportunity to gain 40 new members might in the eyes of a union be a worthwhile endeavor.

    Furthermore I can't find anywhere anything regarding proprietary rights so one can assume that they will not be granted nor anything regarding protected territories. Therefore if a contractor's employees decide to join a union an end result similar to X contractors is likely to occur.....Contractors are not retired....they're disposed off.

    In the meantime keep watch over what is happening at Amazon owned Whole Foods. Employees are trying to unionize that workforce. It seems that when Amazon took over WF employees experienced significant cuts to their overall compensation package.
     
  17. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    You're saying FedEx and UPS no longer use Sprinters in your area? The Sprinters you used were inferior to the current models. Or are you of the opinion companies never learn from their mistakes and make improvements? And their payloads are higher than Ford and Chevy vans. Ford got rid of the Econoline because it couldn't compete and brought in their Sprinteresque Transit.
     
  18. dmac1

    dmac1 Well-Known Member

    Amazon is of course going to continue to use FEDEX, ground,HD, or express for all of their rural deliveries, so they aren't worried about hard use on gravel or dirt roads, and many, if not most, urban areas are no longer using salt like they did in the past. Add in global warming, and there is less snow to worry about anyway. I think that Amazon has at least as much data on the sprinters as anyone here does, and has calculated the cost/benefit analysis using math no one posting here could explain.

    Calculus and differential math combined with computers probably told them that they will save 1 penny per delivery based on ALL the factors- cost, mpg, maintenance, durability.

    And buying 20k vehicles in one order gives them a HUGE cost advantage of ANY fedex ground contractor. With the ever increasing density of Amazon warehouses, even with less capacity, Amazon drivers will be able to easily return to pick up and reload if cubed out. And if they own 20k vans, they will likely hire their own in-house maintenance crews to protect their investment and save even more money. I think Amazon is going to become a huge thorn in Fred S's side, and if they can offer local delivery and pick up service with 3 day nationwide shipping using their existing infrastructure, it will put pressure on fedex to reduce costs.

    Essentially, Amazon is 'stealing' the original HD concept, but doesn't have to provide the national coverage that HD tried to do. HD rollout was a failure and I think it is because fedex tried to cover too much too fast with too few. Seems like Amazon is planning a slower rollout. But using smaller and more efficient vehicles in urban areas will be faster and cheaper With an order of 20k vehicles with more to come likely, they may have even gotten service contracts with the dealers included.

    If I was still looking for work, Amazon is clearly the better choice compared to working for Fedex as a ground ISP.
     
  19. dmac1

    dmac1 Well-Known Member

    Any ground ISP employee is just as eligible for collective bargaining, and fedex isn't going to allow many ISPs to operate 40 routes. Amazon is almost demanding a big operationAnd Amazon's ADPs are not needing to pay hundreds of thousands to buy the job either. So the proprietary rights have limited value anyway. Imagine what you would need to pay to purchase a 40 route ISP operation. It would take decades to pay off. The up-front out of pocket cost to 'buy' into Amazon is $10k. Compare that to the $100k to buy a SMALL ground contract, even if financed.

    Yes, Amazon wants you to have more stability, and more in terms of net worth, but I suspect that they will be more selective as to whom they hire. Fedex just wants a warm body without a criminal conviction. The ADP is a management job, not a delivery job. Big difference.

    Both fedex and Amazon will face the legal challenge of being co-employers, but since fedex retains the right to uniilaterally void your contract, your so-called proprietary rights have zero real value. IF fedex decides to change their business model, like they have already done once, they can void the contract and pay you off with only a small amount. If fedex decides to go all employee, you can expect a buyout of MAYBE $25k per 'route' like they did when making the switch to ISP, offering a small price.
     
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  20. Fred's Myth

    Fred's Myth Nonhyphenated American

    According to my research, Amazon won't own ANY vehicles, they will sell or lease them out. Therefore, the maintenance costs will be passed on, as well.
    And while they claim this experiment is solely to protect their own interests, I wouldn't put it past them to eventually expand their services in competition.
    Logistically though, their 20,000 vans vs. FedEx&UPS 200,000 trucks isn't (yet) a threat.