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UPS Freight = TForce Freight
apwa : The unanswered questions
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<blockquote data-quote="SandBagger" data-source="post: 235526" data-attributes="member: 11242"><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Can you please substantiate that assertion with facts, or would that be too “irrational” for ya? While you’re scrambling around trying to figure out how to find document that ridiculous number, let me clue you in to a few facts you seem to overlook.</span></span></em></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The Teamsters leadership advanced language in the 1997 contract to “create” (how many#) full-time combo jobs. Over the next five years many were created, but only after the rank and file persisted in filing grievances for those jobs. The IBT did nothing to force the issue, instead relying on the broken grievance machinery to drag the process out and wear the membership down. </span></em></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">By 2000 it was obviously not going well and a regional strike or walkout would have served us well, but nothing doing…. Also, many of the full-time jobs you are eluding to were in fact full-time positions already in existence and vacated/filled through attrition. Those jobs were merged into the total reported by the IBT to “fluff” the numbers when reporting on their progress at creating new jobs. Did you take a “rational” look at your worksite to see if any of those “new” jobs were being created between 1997 and 2002? I doubt it!</span></em></li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I’ll have to again ask for more information. In my area the part-timers are not on the Teamsters check-off and are covered by the Company retirement and H/W plan. Although they pay dues, they receive nothing from the Teamsters plan. All medical claims are submitted to the Company paid independent medical contractor and the bills are paid directly from Company profits. I have no idea what benefit the prescription card you are referring to consists of, but until you explain it I can’t give you that as a plus in the Teamsters column.</span></span></em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I agree that we make a good wage. That has never been in dispute. What I disagree with is the narrow-minded view that we somehow owe absolute allegiance to the IBT because they miraculously negotiated that wage for us. The Teamsters got you nothing! Your efforts to stand shoulder-to-shoulder demanding fair treatment at the risk of losing your livelihood is what extracted that fair wage from your employer. Whatever banner you choose to unite under, it is not the flag you fly that does the talking. According to your way of thinking, you should send your car dealer a Christmas bonus every year for selling you a car that actually runs. Never mind that the car stays in the shop nine months out of the year…this was the guy that came through for you at point-of-sale! You might also be mindful that what KEEPS you in your job is your own hard work and what you actually take home at the end of the day is the fruit of your labor. I can see where deadbeats or clock-suckers would bow a knee in praise of the mighty and all-powerful Teamster Elite, but why would an honest man doing an honest days work worry much about losing his job? Sure, Big Brown asks too much (I know that is what you’re thinking), but what do you expect for $28 an hour? </span></span></em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I’m assuming you are referring to cuts in mandatory overtime here? Do you know anyone who actually uses or has succeeded in implementing this “language”? I NEVER see it in action! Matter of fact, the average package driver in my building works at least 9.5 hours a day everyday. As for feeders, that language is useless because of the nature of the work. The only segment of the classification to which it could even possibly apply is full-time shifting. Looks like” 8 and the gate” is reserved for those “10’s of thousands” of new combo jobs you mentioned.</span></span></em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">See above</span></span></em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">How about seniority? What’s you point here? Teamsters gave you that? I earn mine one year at a time. I suppose what you meant to ask in your “rational” sort of way is what about recognition of seniority in bidding.</span></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">If you are going to tout that as a centerpiece for the Teamster model, think again. That is simply a fair way to acknowledge the contributions of a workforce and I don’t think it would take a lot of strong-arming to squeeze that out of any reasonable employer. After all, a company is only as good as it’s employees and a successful company knows this. You will (if you bother to look) find that this type of program exists today in non-union companies as well as union shops. It’s just good business. </span></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> </span></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></em></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The grievance procedure? You mean the “ancient alligator”? Yeah, the one that is all mouth and no ears and whose teeth fell out long, long ago (If he ever had any to start with)! The current grievance machinery is a joke to everyone who ever had to use it. The employee starts out being wronged, has to prove his unfair treatment to the BA, then to the “panel” if he even is aware it has gotten that far or can afford to lose a day’s pay to attend the hearing, and if he/she is lucky enough to at least deadlock the panel has to then be subject to the whims of the Executive Board and whether or not they will approve risking the money to win before an arbitrator. Wow Red, what a compelling case you are presenting!</span></span></em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Please, stop! Stop! I surrender!!!!!</span></span></em></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">According to my scorecard….final tally Teamsters and Red -0, Visitor- 7</span></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">How say you?</span></span></em></p><p> </p><p>Continued next post:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SandBagger, post: 235526, member: 11242"] [I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]Can you please substantiate that assertion with facts, or would that be too “irrational” for ya? While you’re scrambling around trying to figure out how to find document that ridiculous number, let me clue you in to a few facts you seem to overlook.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [LIST] [*][I][FONT=Verdana]The Teamsters leadership advanced language in the 1997 contract to “create” (how many#) full-time combo jobs. Over the next five years many were created, but only after the rank and file persisted in filing grievances for those jobs. The IBT did nothing to force the issue, instead relying on the broken grievance machinery to drag the process out and wear the membership down. [/FONT][/I] [*][I][FONT=Verdana]By 2000 it was obviously not going well and a regional strike or walkout would have served us well, but nothing doing…. Also, many of the full-time jobs you are eluding to were in fact full-time positions already in existence and vacated/filled through attrition. Those jobs were merged into the total reported by the IBT to “fluff” the numbers when reporting on their progress at creating new jobs. Did you take a “rational” look at your worksite to see if any of those “new” jobs were being created between 1997 and 2002? I doubt it![/FONT][/I][/LIST][I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]I’ll have to again ask for more information. In my area the part-timers are not on the Teamsters check-off and are covered by the Company retirement and H/W plan. Although they pay dues, they receive nothing from the Teamsters plan. All medical claims are submitted to the Company paid independent medical contractor and the bills are paid directly from Company profits. I have no idea what benefit the prescription card you are referring to consists of, but until you explain it I can’t give you that as a plus in the Teamsters column.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]I agree that we make a good wage. That has never been in dispute. What I disagree with is the narrow-minded view that we somehow owe absolute allegiance to the IBT because they miraculously negotiated that wage for us. The Teamsters got you nothing! Your efforts to stand shoulder-to-shoulder demanding fair treatment at the risk of losing your livelihood is what extracted that fair wage from your employer. Whatever banner you choose to unite under, it is not the flag you fly that does the talking. According to your way of thinking, you should send your car dealer a Christmas bonus every year for selling you a car that actually runs. Never mind that the car stays in the shop nine months out of the year…this was the guy that came through for you at point-of-sale! You might also be mindful that what KEEPS you in your job is your own hard work and what you actually take home at the end of the day is the fruit of your labor. I can see where deadbeats or clock-suckers would bow a knee in praise of the mighty and all-powerful Teamster Elite, but why would an honest man doing an honest days work worry much about losing his job? Sure, Big Brown asks too much (I know that is what you’re thinking), but what do you expect for $28 an hour? [/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]I’m assuming you are referring to cuts in mandatory overtime here? Do you know anyone who actually uses or has succeeded in implementing this “language”? I NEVER see it in action! Matter of fact, the average package driver in my building works at least 9.5 hours a day everyday. As for feeders, that language is useless because of the nature of the work. The only segment of the classification to which it could even possibly apply is full-time shifting. Looks like” 8 and the gate” is reserved for those “10’s of thousands” of new combo jobs you mentioned.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]See above[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]How about seniority? What’s you point here? Teamsters gave you that? I earn mine one year at a time. I suppose what you meant to ask in your “rational” sort of way is what about recognition of seniority in bidding.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]If you are going to tout that as a centerpiece for the Teamster model, think again. That is simply a fair way to acknowledge the contributions of a workforce and I don’t think it would take a lot of strong-arming to squeeze that out of any reasonable employer. After all, a company is only as good as it’s employees and a successful company knows this. You will (if you bother to look) find that this type of program exists today in non-union companies as well as union shops. It’s just good business. [/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]The grievance procedure? You mean the “ancient alligator”? Yeah, the one that is all mouth and no ears and whose teeth fell out long, long ago (If he ever had any to start with)! The current grievance machinery is a joke to everyone who ever had to use it. The employee starts out being wronged, has to prove his unfair treatment to the BA, then to the “panel” if he even is aware it has gotten that far or can afford to lose a day’s pay to attend the hearing, and if he/she is lucky enough to at least deadlock the panel has to then be subject to the whims of the Executive Board and whether or not they will approve risking the money to win before an arbitrator. Wow Red, what a compelling case you are presenting![/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]Please, stop! Stop! I surrender!!!!![/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]According to my scorecard….final tally Teamsters and Red -0, Visitor- 7[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]How say you?[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] Continued next post: [/QUOTE]
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apwa : The unanswered questions
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