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Are Democrats Being Stabbed in the Back?
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 303436" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Moreluck,</p><p> </p><p>I'm gonna be direct on this and say you may be right and there are those here who just launched through the ceiling of their house at what I said. You may even be a bit in shock yourself.</p><p> </p><p>OK, here's why but not the way you think. History is typically written by the people who in some sense control it. It's the ole' "History is written by the winners!" Had Hilter for example won WW2 or the British won the American Revolutionary War, our heros and villians would be quite different today. In otherwords, in the case of Bush or Reagan or Clinton or Kennedy or FDR or even Lincoln, we have what I call our mythology. Yes Virginia, we have our own American myths. Even one of my hero's in Thomas Jefferson was not beyond fault in that he wrote and extolled the virtues of human freedom and independence of the individual from the whims and manipulations of groups of men and collectives but then he stood by silent while the passions of democracy entrenched a system of slavery that we still pay for to this day and my guess we will continue to do so for many years to come. As President, he even took liberties that one can only conclude were empire lite at the very least. </p><p> </p><p>Our founders although great men and great mines were men none the less and had faults. BTW: That same democracy later said that certain people had to ride on the back of the bus and sit upstairs in the movie theater. I remember firsthand going to the Saturday movies with my friends and the puzzled thoughts of why we got (had)to go sit downstairs while a friend of ours had to go sit upstairs. You'll never ever convince me that good ole democracy is as good as so many claim it to be when I've seen firsthand the damage of when individuals aren't allowed to seek their own liberty as they see fit!</p><p> </p><p>With this, history will only paint Bush to the extent of good or bad as it pertains to the party opertions of politics. In other words, from a republican perspective he will be seen as strong, unmoving in light of larger conventional thinking. In some quarters, he may even be painted as visionary. On the flipside, he will be seen as a stealer of elections, a warhawk and empircial manipulator at the behest of private business interest. And in some quarter, maybe the real culprit of 9/11 itself. All of these things on bothsides we already hear now and going forward it will contend on who is in political power at time as to what we will hear. What gets the most mileage for the agenda being pushed at the time. </p><p> </p><p>In a funny kind of way, had there been WMD in Iraq, the democrats and the Clinton machine would be in different mode right now claiming ole Bill was the global visionary (Hillary by his side)and that he was scuttled from going after Saddam because the repubs. were protecting their guy (look at the foreign policy record going back to the 60's, CIA backing of the Baathist in coup and Reagan era lovefest with Saddam) by using the Monica affair and impeachment and keeping Bill from being focused on doing his job as Commander in chief. Ole Bill would be trying with all might to steal away GW's place in history and to be honest Bill would have a legit claim to that position. Right now they stand silent hoping beyond all hope we won't look at the 1998' Iraq Liberation Act for example and the fact that a whole lot of the WMD data that Bush used was Clinton era stuff. That's not to blame Bill and give George a pass but is just stating that IMO they are all in bed together in the end. Repubs. use that now as cover to try and soften the blame for botching the whole intel. deal. </p><p> </p><p>I think is you look deep and look at the current and historical record, Bush will be no better or no worse than those before him. Sure, there will be specific cases of gross shannigans but each adminstration has that. And believe me, I'm no fan of Bush but when you boil it down, what he's done IMO to damage personal liberty in the cause of protecting us from "islamo-fascism" Clinton did his own damage with advancing the cause of Global mechantilism under the behest of the same American Empirical Hegemony that profits from the moves Bush makes now. </p><p> </p><p>It's all based on how the product is sold, which customer swears by it and which customer loaths it. As some customers love UPS and hate FedEx and visa versa, so it is with politics. If you took the time to look deep at both, you might conclude that in a perfect world you'd use neither but at present in our monopolized world, your other options are DHL and the USPS so what's a girl to do?</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p> </p><p>Depending on the outcome over time, I'm sure Bush will be sold to us in some acceptable light, I mean even Nixon now is presented in some manner of good light so I suspect Bush will recieve the same. If you tear down the man completely you risk the population losing faith in the institution so if even in bad times the institution brings forth good, faith is maintained. Hey, cynic to the end am I! <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy2:" title="Happy2 :happy2:" data-shortname=":happy2:" /></p><p>Any contarian views no matter how completely documented will be cast aside as historical revisonism as to mentally suggest to the masses that this unorthodoxy is not worthy of time and consideration for good and proper thinking peoples. The Ron Paul's and Dennis Kucinich's are nutjobs so just stick with the frontrunners and we'll take care of you!</p><p> </p><p>Also More, I saw on the Global Warming thread a link you posted to the Lew Rockwell site. Are we starting to think in more anarcho-captialist mindset? What next, you extolling the virutes of Rothbardian thought?<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p> </p><p>Speaking of history, why don't you take a minute and cruise through this!</p><p><a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/fdr-toc.html" target="_blank">http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/fdr-toc.html</a></p><p> </p><p>And if you get real brave and you want a 2nd opinion and this time from a so-called liberal himself, check this out. Roosevelt a myth? From a liberal?<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/surprised.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":surprised:" title="Surprised :surprised:" data-shortname=":surprised:" /></p><p><a href="http://www.mises.org/books/rooseveltmyth.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.mises.org/books/rooseveltmyth.pdf</a></p><p> </p><p>It's over 400 pages but worth the read if you are willing to turn the Bobby Darren CD's off for a few minutes a day. </p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink2:" title="Wink :wink2:" data-shortname=":wink2:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 303436, member: 2189"] Moreluck, I'm gonna be direct on this and say you may be right and there are those here who just launched through the ceiling of their house at what I said. You may even be a bit in shock yourself. OK, here's why but not the way you think. History is typically written by the people who in some sense control it. It's the ole' "History is written by the winners!" Had Hilter for example won WW2 or the British won the American Revolutionary War, our heros and villians would be quite different today. In otherwords, in the case of Bush or Reagan or Clinton or Kennedy or FDR or even Lincoln, we have what I call our mythology. Yes Virginia, we have our own American myths. Even one of my hero's in Thomas Jefferson was not beyond fault in that he wrote and extolled the virtues of human freedom and independence of the individual from the whims and manipulations of groups of men and collectives but then he stood by silent while the passions of democracy entrenched a system of slavery that we still pay for to this day and my guess we will continue to do so for many years to come. As President, he even took liberties that one can only conclude were empire lite at the very least. Our founders although great men and great mines were men none the less and had faults. BTW: That same democracy later said that certain people had to ride on the back of the bus and sit upstairs in the movie theater. I remember firsthand going to the Saturday movies with my friends and the puzzled thoughts of why we got (had)to go sit downstairs while a friend of ours had to go sit upstairs. You'll never ever convince me that good ole democracy is as good as so many claim it to be when I've seen firsthand the damage of when individuals aren't allowed to seek their own liberty as they see fit! With this, history will only paint Bush to the extent of good or bad as it pertains to the party opertions of politics. In other words, from a republican perspective he will be seen as strong, unmoving in light of larger conventional thinking. In some quarters, he may even be painted as visionary. On the flipside, he will be seen as a stealer of elections, a warhawk and empircial manipulator at the behest of private business interest. And in some quarter, maybe the real culprit of 9/11 itself. All of these things on bothsides we already hear now and going forward it will contend on who is in political power at time as to what we will hear. What gets the most mileage for the agenda being pushed at the time. In a funny kind of way, had there been WMD in Iraq, the democrats and the Clinton machine would be in different mode right now claiming ole Bill was the global visionary (Hillary by his side)and that he was scuttled from going after Saddam because the repubs. were protecting their guy (look at the foreign policy record going back to the 60's, CIA backing of the Baathist in coup and Reagan era lovefest with Saddam) by using the Monica affair and impeachment and keeping Bill from being focused on doing his job as Commander in chief. Ole Bill would be trying with all might to steal away GW's place in history and to be honest Bill would have a legit claim to that position. Right now they stand silent hoping beyond all hope we won't look at the 1998' Iraq Liberation Act for example and the fact that a whole lot of the WMD data that Bush used was Clinton era stuff. That's not to blame Bill and give George a pass but is just stating that IMO they are all in bed together in the end. Repubs. use that now as cover to try and soften the blame for botching the whole intel. deal. I think is you look deep and look at the current and historical record, Bush will be no better or no worse than those before him. Sure, there will be specific cases of gross shannigans but each adminstration has that. And believe me, I'm no fan of Bush but when you boil it down, what he's done IMO to damage personal liberty in the cause of protecting us from "islamo-fascism" Clinton did his own damage with advancing the cause of Global mechantilism under the behest of the same American Empirical Hegemony that profits from the moves Bush makes now. It's all based on how the product is sold, which customer swears by it and which customer loaths it. As some customers love UPS and hate FedEx and visa versa, so it is with politics. If you took the time to look deep at both, you might conclude that in a perfect world you'd use neither but at present in our monopolized world, your other options are DHL and the USPS so what's a girl to do? :happy-very: Depending on the outcome over time, I'm sure Bush will be sold to us in some acceptable light, I mean even Nixon now is presented in some manner of good light so I suspect Bush will recieve the same. If you tear down the man completely you risk the population losing faith in the institution so if even in bad times the institution brings forth good, faith is maintained. Hey, cynic to the end am I! :happy2: Any contarian views no matter how completely documented will be cast aside as historical revisonism as to mentally suggest to the masses that this unorthodoxy is not worthy of time and consideration for good and proper thinking peoples. The Ron Paul's and Dennis Kucinich's are nutjobs so just stick with the frontrunners and we'll take care of you! Also More, I saw on the Global Warming thread a link you posted to the Lew Rockwell site. Are we starting to think in more anarcho-captialist mindset? What next, you extolling the virutes of Rothbardian thought?:happy-very: Speaking of history, why don't you take a minute and cruise through this! [URL]http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/fdr-toc.html[/URL] And if you get real brave and you want a 2nd opinion and this time from a so-called liberal himself, check this out. Roosevelt a myth? From a liberal?:surprised: [URL]http://www.mises.org/books/rooseveltmyth.pdf[/URL] It's over 400 pages but worth the read if you are willing to turn the Bobby Darren CD's off for a few minutes a day. :wink2: [/QUOTE]
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