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B I O B....blame it on Bush...
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<blockquote data-quote="The Other Side" data-source="post: 867682" data-attributes="member: 17969"><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Island, I respect your whole post, and agree with a majority of your points, however, one of the problems with the arguments over the budget or how</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">goverment works in the first place is the LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of how goverment works.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Two points in the sections I quoted you on. First, you say Obama is incompetent. Whats that based on? Look at where the country was when he took over. A nation in a free</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">falling recession. A stock market that lost over 3.5 trillion dollars in value in less than 8 years, 7.8 unemployment and rising to levels that had no</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">ceiling. Month over month job losses from BUSH that totaled 750 thousand jobs a month. A housing crisis with millions of homes scheduled to default in the</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">coming years. Wall street hiding crooked books all cooked under BUSH"s watch. Over 11 million jobs sent overseas in the 8 years previous. Negative GDP growth</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">for much of the last two years of BUSH. Oil skyrocketed to 150 dollars a barrel and 5 bucks a gallon for years.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">And then , compare that to OBAMA. Positive GDP growth in all quarters (negative means recession), wall street back on its feet even after this last crisis</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">which was manufactured and re-correcting. Job losses held to under 425 thousand a month (325 thousand a month fewer than BUSH), the housing market slowing down</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">in foreclosures but still weak NO FAULT OF HIS. A stimulus bill that gave us ALL A TAX BREAK, two reductions in the payroll tax for all of us on the clock,</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">A health care reform bill that passed and is now protecting americans and providing coverage. Oil stable for 2 years at under 80 dollars a barrel, then</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">spiked when the republicans took control and shot to 115 a barrel. Today , down to 85 bucks a barrel and price easing at the pumps. HIghest production of USA</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">crude in 10 years. Masses of overstock of supply of oil.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">This "record" is far better today, then it was under bush. Is it the greatest? NO WAY., is it better than it was ABSOLUTELY. Would anyone want to</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">return to the direction of the Bush administration and the republicans in congress and senate NO WAY.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">This country is in a mess, it had to get here somehow, and to suggest that OBAMA drove a perfectly fine economy and govermental system into the ground is</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">to ignore the FACTS.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Only an "incompetent" person would suggest such. The facts just dont add up.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The right wing wants everyone on the "right" to forget about how we got here into this mess. They try to stay ahead of the curve by telling us to</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">move on. But it isnt that simple. The damage done to this country by the Bush Administration will take YEARS to correct, not months. There is no magic fix. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">You all wanted wars? You got em, now pick up the tab its 3.5 trillion dollars. The bill for that was waiting on Obamas desk when he walked in. You wanted a</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">prescription drug bill? You got it, now pick up the tab its a half a trillion dollars. That bill was sitting on Obamas desk when he walked in. You wanted to</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">bail out morgan stanley, AIG, Lehman Bros and the like? You got it, that cost you 3.2 trillion dollars and went unpaid. You wanted a personal stimulus check</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">from BUSH for all americans? You got it, that cost you 1.2 trillion dollars. Bush wanted to give 40.000 thousand dollars to poor people to use as down</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">payments? You got it, that cost you 1 trillion dollars. You wanted a tax cut because BUSH said a surplus was a bad idea? You got it, that cost you 3.5</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">trillion dollars.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">How do any of you PURPORT that OBAMA cover all these losses in his first 24 months? What was he suppose to do that would have changed any of the</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">circumstances we are in today??</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The damage was extensive, but the right wing wants you to forget these things and focus on social security, medicare, abortion, immigration, healthcare, and</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">tax cuts. How do you all believe we got into this mess? Do you really believe this damage to our country was done after January 31st 2009?? My answer is that</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">a person would have to be "incompetent" to believe such.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">To my second point. You said "<strong><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">If Obama believed the Bush tax cuts were bad and raising taxes would work ---do it. As a newly elected President with the public</span></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">momentum and the Democrat House and Senate HE COULD HAVE RAISED TAXES!!!!!""</span></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Now I know you are an educated man but I have to question your knowledge of how congress works.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Yes, you are partially correct in stating that Obama had both houses of congress, but you leave the tracks with respect to the tax extensions. First,</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">you have to understand that the original tax cut plan by BUSH was for 10 years, and expiring at the end of december 2010. With this in mind, understand that it</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">was done this way for a reason. The midterms would be held the month before, and this issue was used as a campaign issue by the republicans for those</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">midterms and it worked. The republicans layed down a political minefield for the democrats and then played up on that by saying it would create jobs.. SO FAR, ZERO JOBS.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Obama never had a chance to utilize his congress control because they lost the election and a deal was made with the republicans.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Obama could have never allowed the tax cuts to expire for political reasons, not economic reasons. Today however, its a new ballgame. After the S&P Tea</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Party downgrade, taxes are back in play and look for them to be raised on the top 1%. There is no way around that now.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">This is politics, and your anger should be with the players who are playing with yours and your families lives just to win office.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The republicans dont have any ideas other than taking from the poor and elderly, moving up to the middle class and protecting the richest people in america.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Its all a terrible game and all we can do is watch it play out and hope for the best.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Peace.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Other Side, post: 867682, member: 17969"] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana] Island, I respect your whole post, and agree with a majority of your points, however, one of the problems with the arguments over the budget or how goverment works in the first place is the LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of how goverment works.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]Two points in the sections I quoted you on. First, you say Obama is incompetent. Whats that based on? Look at where the country was when he took over. A nation in a free falling recession. A stock market that lost over 3.5 trillion dollars in value in less than 8 years, 7.8 unemployment and rising to levels that had no ceiling. Month over month job losses from BUSH that totaled 750 thousand jobs a month. A housing crisis with millions of homes scheduled to default in the coming years. Wall street hiding crooked books all cooked under BUSH"s watch. Over 11 million jobs sent overseas in the 8 years previous. Negative GDP growth for much of the last two years of BUSH. Oil skyrocketed to 150 dollars a barrel and 5 bucks a gallon for years. And then , compare that to OBAMA. Positive GDP growth in all quarters (negative means recession), wall street back on its feet even after this last crisis which was manufactured and re-correcting. Job losses held to under 425 thousand a month (325 thousand a month fewer than BUSH), the housing market slowing down in foreclosures but still weak NO FAULT OF HIS. A stimulus bill that gave us ALL A TAX BREAK, two reductions in the payroll tax for all of us on the clock, A health care reform bill that passed and is now protecting americans and providing coverage. Oil stable for 2 years at under 80 dollars a barrel, then spiked when the republicans took control and shot to 115 a barrel. Today , down to 85 bucks a barrel and price easing at the pumps. HIghest production of USA crude in 10 years. Masses of overstock of supply of oil.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana] This "record" is far better today, then it was under bush. Is it the greatest? NO WAY., is it better than it was ABSOLUTELY. Would anyone want to return to the direction of the Bush administration and the republicans in congress and senate NO WAY. This country is in a mess, it had to get here somehow, and to suggest that OBAMA drove a perfectly fine economy and govermental system into the ground is to ignore the FACTS. Only an "incompetent" person would suggest such. The facts just dont add up.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana] The right wing wants everyone on the "right" to forget about how we got here into this mess. They try to stay ahead of the curve by telling us to move on. But it isnt that simple. The damage done to this country by the Bush Administration will take YEARS to correct, not months. There is no magic fix. You all wanted wars? You got em, now pick up the tab its 3.5 trillion dollars. The bill for that was waiting on Obamas desk when he walked in. You wanted a prescription drug bill? You got it, now pick up the tab its a half a trillion dollars. That bill was sitting on Obamas desk when he walked in. You wanted to bail out morgan stanley, AIG, Lehman Bros and the like? You got it, that cost you 3.2 trillion dollars and went unpaid. You wanted a personal stimulus check from BUSH for all americans? You got it, that cost you 1.2 trillion dollars. Bush wanted to give 40.000 thousand dollars to poor people to use as down payments? You got it, that cost you 1 trillion dollars. You wanted a tax cut because BUSH said a surplus was a bad idea? You got it, that cost you 3.5 trillion dollars.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana] How do any of you PURPORT that OBAMA cover all these losses in his first 24 months? What was he suppose to do that would have changed any of the circumstances we are in today?? The damage was extensive, but the right wing wants you to forget these things and focus on social security, medicare, abortion, immigration, healthcare, and tax cuts. How do you all believe we got into this mess? Do you really believe this damage to our country was done after January 31st 2009?? My answer is that a person would have to be "incompetent" to believe such. To my second point. You said "[B][FONT=Verdana]If Obama believed the Bush tax cuts were bad and raising taxes would work ---do it. As a newly elected President with the public momentum and the Democrat House and Senate HE COULD HAVE RAISED TAXES!!!!!""[/FONT][/B] Now I know you are an educated man but I have to question your knowledge of how congress works. Yes, you are partially correct in stating that Obama had both houses of congress, but you leave the tracks with respect to the tax extensions. First, you have to understand that the original tax cut plan by BUSH was for 10 years, and expiring at the end of december 2010. With this in mind, understand that it was done this way for a reason. The midterms would be held the month before, and this issue was used as a campaign issue by the republicans for those midterms and it worked. The republicans layed down a political minefield for the democrats and then played up on that by saying it would create jobs.. SO FAR, ZERO JOBS. Obama never had a chance to utilize his congress control because they lost the election and a deal was made with the republicans.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana] Obama could have never allowed the tax cuts to expire for political reasons, not economic reasons. Today however, its a new ballgame. After the S&P Tea Party downgrade, taxes are back in play and look for them to be raised on the top 1%. There is no way around that now. This is politics, and your anger should be with the players who are playing with yours and your families lives just to win office. The republicans dont have any ideas other than taking from the poor and elderly, moving up to the middle class and protecting the richest people in america.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana] Its all a terrible game and all we can do is watch it play out and hope for the best. Peace.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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