Bid list seniority

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
A friend of mine from another building is having seniority issues. There was a bid list with 5 full time positions, he was 3rd in order but was already qualified so they started him immediately while the other 2 had to go to school, now they are trying to bump him but his seniority date is a month before theirs and it is nowhere to be found in the contract
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
A friend of mine from another building is having seniority issues. There was a bid list with 5 full time positions, he was 3rd in order but was already qualified so they started him immediately while the other 2 had to go to school, now they are trying to bump him but his seniority date is a month before theirs and it is nowhere to be found in the contract
It will depend on your area supplement, or local riders, if any, but your full time seniority date is, generally, the first day you work in a full time classification. The other guys may have building seniority, but because they became full time after he did, he has more full time seniority. They might have been able to grieve the violation of their seniority at the time he went full time ahead of them, but I'm guessing the window on that is closed now.
 

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
It's been 8 months but last week the got it changed to be ahead of him. The BA and steward wont do anything since they have been fighting for them. Their response is there is no writing of it but "its what we normally do". Hoping he fights it to panel atleast.

It will depend on your area supplement, or local riders, if any, but your full time seniority date is, generally, the first day you work in a full time classification. The other guys may have building seniority, but because they became full time after he did, he has more full time seniority. They might have been able to grieve the violation of their seniority at the time he went full time ahead of them, but I'm guessing the window on that is closed now.
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
It's been 8 months but last week the got it changed to be ahead of him. The BA and steward wont do anything since they have been fighting for them. Their response is there is no writing of it but "its what we normally do". Hoping he fights it to panel atleast.
He'll need to file a complaint with the executive board, or the principal officer, of the local in order to have a hearing about it. Honestly, I don't see it going in his favor. The only argument he could make is that they waited too long to grieve it, unless they've been fighting it from the beginning and it took 8 months to resolve. Then he'd have no case.

I was in a similar situation, I was supposed to go full time after an outside hire, but he couldn't start right away, so they sent me to class. I have two weeks of seniority over him. He had no grounds to grieve it, though, since he had no company seniority at the time.
 

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
He'll need to file a complaint with the executive board, or the principal officer, of the local in order to have a hearing about it. Honestly, I don't see it going in his favor. The only argument he could make is that they waited too long to grieve it, unless they've been fighting it from the beginning and it took 8 months to resolve. Then he'd have no case.

I was in a similar situation, I was supposed to go full time after an outside hire, but he couldn't start right away, so they sent me to class. I have two weeks of seniority over him. He had no grounds to grieve it, though, since he had no company seniority at the time.
How would he have no case though when his full time start date is 2 whole months ahead of theirs
 

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
Because the company violated the seniority of the other drivers by putting him on road first.
Union gave the permission to use him first, BA told him tough luck they are going in front of you even though you have 2 months on them , they basically have been fighting for them and have said screw him when he fights it.
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
Union gave the permission to use him first, BA told him tough luck they are going in front of you even though you have 2 months on them , they basically have been fighting for them and have said screw him when he fights it.
That's how seniority works. The Union doesn't have the right to allow the company to violate it. Did he happen to get anything in writing to support his claim?
 

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
That's how seniority works. The Union doesn't have the right to allow the company to violate it. Did he happen to get anything in writing to support his claim?
Yeah seniority with your full time start date different classifications give different seniority. How do they bump ahead when its 2 months, they were 2 months behind, not his fault he was qualified they weren't. That's the point nobody can understand different classifications give different seniority
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
Yeah seniority with your full time start date different classifications give different seniority. How do they bump ahead when its 2 months, they were 2 months behind, not his fault he was qualified they weren't. That's the point nobody can understand different classifications give different seniority
It's not their fault the company let him go full time ahead of them, when they had the right to go first. It was their rights being violated to begin with. As a part timer, their company or building seniority gives them the right to bid on and accept full time positions, which are to be granted in seniority order.

Full time seniority gives them the right to work, bid on routes, and pick vacations ahead of others with less seniority. Your friend has an earlier full time seniority date than the other drivers, but their rights were violated in the process of UPS granting him the full time status first. The union is just setting things right.
 

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
It's not their fault the company let him go full time ahead of them, when they had the right to go first. It was their rights being violated to begin with. As a part timer, their company or building seniority gives them the right to bid on and accept full time positions, which are to be granted in seniority order.

Full time seniority gives them the right to work, bid on routes, and pick vacations ahead of others with less seniority. Your friend has an earlier full time seniority date than the other drivers, but their rights were violated in the process of UPS granting him the full time status first. The union is just setting things right.
He just cant see how they can change a date from 8 months ago. If it was done immediately he might could see it but union wont give any indication of why and also can't prove the right way or the wrong they did that to him only catering to others
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
He just cant see how they can change a date from 8 months ago. If it was done immediately he might could see it but union wont give any indication of why and also can't prove the right way or the wrong they did that to him only catering to others
Like I said, if they started fighting it at the beginning, it might well have taken 8 months to sort out. If he has something in writing saying the Union gave the ok to use him first, and he can prove that the others waited too long to grieve the violation of their seniority, he might have a chance to reverse the decision. That will have to be handled in-house at the local through a hearing. If he wants a hearing he will have to file a complaint with the principal officer. That's about all I can tell you, other than your friend shouldn't get his hopes up.
 

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
Like I said, if they started fighting it at the beginning, it might well have taken 8 months to sort out. If he has something in writing saying the Union gave the ok to use him first, and he can prove that the others waited too long to grieve the violation of their seniority, he might have a chance to reverse the decision. That will have to be handled in-house at the local through a hearing. If he wants a hearing he will have to file a complaint with the principal officer. That's about all I can tell you, other than your friend shouldn't get his hopes up.
The main thing is it has happened multiple times in his building and even mine, and it always who gained fulltime seniority first is ahead regardless of company seniority
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
The main thing is it has happened multiple times in his building and even mine, and it always who gained fulltime seniority first is ahead regardless of company seniority
It's up to the people being violated to challenge it. No one else will stand up for your rights if you won't.
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
@Tightupser, if they are changing the way they handle these situations, then perhaps everyone else who has been leap frogged in the past should try to get their seniority restored as well. But there are legitimate reasons why a part timer with less seniority might go full time before someone with higher seniority. One being the higher seniority employee not signing the bid sheet, or not being able to do the job they bid on. There are a lot of different factors that can come into play. But, all other things equal, people with higher seniority should go full time first.
 

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
@Tightupser, if they are changing the way they handle these situations, then perhaps everyone else who has been leap frogged in the past should try to get their seniority restored as well. But there are legitimate reasons why a part timer with less seniority might go full time before someone with higher seniority. One being the higher seniority employee not signing the bid sheet, or not being able to do the job they bid on. There are a lot of different factors that can come into play. But, all other things equal, people with higher seniority should go full time first.
It's not in writing so how would one know if they only do it for the ones they want. That's what he is really worried about if they could prove it is the right way he'd drop it, just have seen how the union caters to the suck ups that's what concerns myself and him the most
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
It's not in writing so how would one know if they only do it for the ones they want. That's what he is really worried about if they could prove it is the right way he'd drop it, just have seen how the union caters to the suck ups that's what concerns myself and him the most
Most supplements have language regarding seniority, including that part timers and full timers have separate seniority lists. If I knew what supplement you were under, I might be able to show you what your language actually says about seniority.
 

BrownMonk

Old fart Package Car Driver
Happens all the time. The guy that started could have been held back until the other 2 attempted to make seniority. Usually, the Union and company agree to allow that guy to start and get fulltime while the others make that attempt with the understanding that they go in front if they make it. Your friend was able to make fulltime wages, benefits and pension instead of waiting around on the part time shift for the other guys to go to school and make their time. Would he have preferred to make $15 an hour for 3 1/2 hours until they reached that level? Also, there was a chance that they would have failed the school or been disqualified and he would have been above them with a few more months under his belt. It works both ways.
 

Tightupser

Well-Known Member
Happens all the time. The guy that started could have been held back until the other 2 attempted to make seniority. Usually, the Union and company agree to allow that guy to start and get fulltime while the others make that attempt with the understanding that they go in front if they make it. Your friend was able to make fulltime wages, benefits and pension instead of waiting around on the part time shift for the other guys to go to school and make their time. Would he have preferred to make $15 an hour for 3 1/2 hours until they reached that level? Also, there was a chance that they would have failed the school or been disqualified and he would have been above them with a few more months under his belt. It works both ways.
There was no understanding of that managment has never seen this happen usually first to make 30 days is senior which supplement supports
 

R1wonder

Member
A friend of mine from another building is having seniority issues. There was a bid list with 5 full time positions, he was 3rd in order but was already qualified so they started him immediately while the other 2 had to go to school, now they are trying to bump him but his seniority date is a month before theirs and it is nowhere to be found in the contract

When I went full time it was with a group of about 6, one came from inside . He tried to make an issue about his date but I spoke up and wouldn’t let it go ... I told the union steward . When I started driving it took me 30 days to get my seniority date , alone with every other driver .... so NO , those guys are 30 days behind him . End of story
 
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