Biggest scam is on all UPS hourly employees

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Bill, Feb 18, 2007.

  1. Bill

    Bill Member

    In the past three months, I have started two new threads "Are the Teamsters really working for you"? and "Not one valid reason to stay with the Teamsters". There has not been one intellectual response to either of these threads, but I have given you many reasons why it is time for a change. I have now come up with the ultimate reason and numbers to prove to you why you are being scammed. These numbers are factual and can not be disputed.
    UPS contributes $214 per week per employee into the pension fund. This amounts to $11,128 annually. If this money were to be invested over 30 years with an average return of 8%, then each of us would have over $1,200,000 upon retirement at any age. Even if you received a $300,000 lump sum payout upon retirement, your account would still have $900,000 which would still be accruing interest and allow a monthly pension of $7,000. No further money would be needed to fund your pension. As of now, you are being offered a fraction of that by the Teamsters. Where does the rest of your money go? For every dollar that UPS contributes to your pension fund, only 40 cents goes to you. Employees from other companies are enjoying our medical and pension money, because of the multi-pension plan we are stuck with under the Teamsters. UPS money ($1.80 per hour) that was earmarked for our medical benefits are being diverted into the pension fund. This will result in our medical benefits being underfunded, and we will all be paying more to make up for the shortcoming. The Teamsters are discussing the likely possibility that we each pay $200 per month to cover medical and health benefits. Also, in the event of your death, your spouse only receives 5 years of your monthly pension. After that, your spouse receives a 50% reduction in benefits if he/she chooses to pay for survivor benefits. There is no financial security for your family. It's your money; shouldn't you and your family get to keep what you worked hard to earn?
    Our multi-pension plan is beyond the point of no return. The pension fund has liabilities that outweigh the assets. In laymans terms, this means that more money goes out than comes in. Each year, an additional 2,000 employees retire, thus putting our fund further in the hole. UPS is not going to put additional money into this sinking fund, especially if most of the money does not go to UPS employees.
    Let me give you a little insight on myself and where I came up with this. I have a Bachelor of Science degree, my wife has a masters degree in marketing, my father-in-law has a Phd in finance from the University of Louisville, and my brother is a CPA. We discussed the current state that the pension fund is in, and concluded that our pension fund is doomed in its present status. It can't sustain it's present course without further cuts being made, or a massive influx of money which is unlikely to occur.
    We analyzed the above scenario ($1,200,000) and reasoned that this is not only viable, but our only option at this point in time. This is exactly what the APWA is proposing, but for whatever strange reasons, people such as Brett636, tieguy, etc... refuse to open their minds and see both sides of the coin. I understand if you are a Teamster leader or a BA and your job depends on UPS money, but these people are not looking out for our best interests, only their own. I will gladly debate you on the pros and cons of the Teamsters vs the APWA, but you have to respond intellectually. Last time, Brett636 showed me a picture of a wrench, or said that he didn't trust the APWA without specifically stating one reason of doubt.
    Another point to think about: Why do the Teamsters want you to work until 65 years of age? They know that most of you will not be able to physically do this work when you are getting older, so you will not receive very much of your pension if anything at all. Under the APWA plan, the feeder drivers will be able to retire after 30 years at any age, the older package car drivers will be able to move into feeder positions, and the part time employees will have more openings when full time driver positions become available.
    The APWA plan benefits everyone, whether you are close to retiring or just beginning your career. If you are an older employee, you will still receive the same pension amount you are due under the Teamsters, but you can retire at any age after 30 years of service without any penalties, get medical coverage for $300 per couple per month, instead of up to $1040(Teamsters), and best of all, your spouse will receive the full pension until he/she dies without having to pay for survivor benefits. If you are just starting out with UPS, then you will reap the maximum benefits stated above ($300,000 lumpsum payout upon retirement and a monthly pension of $7000). Under the Teamsters, the opposite is true.
    After reading all this, if you still aren't convinced that the APWA is your only sensible option, then there is nothing more to say. If you want this to work, the APWA needs your help to achieve its goals. We would like you to join, but if you don't and still want to be rewarded for working at UPS, we ask that you spread the word to your fellow drivers and part time employees. In the next few months, we will need your signatures to ask the NLRB to replace the Teamsters with the APWA. This is going to be your only chance at securing a secure financial future for yourself and your family, so get involved and help get those signatures. If you don't get involved now, then don't expect much from the Teamsters when or if you make it to your retirement age.
  2. sweatyguy

    sweatyguy New Member

    sounds like snakeoil...
  3. pkgdriver

    pkgdriver Member

    What sounds like snakeoil??
  4. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    You must listen they same way your avatar drives.
  5. canon

    canon Member

    Gotta admit, I didn't read it all because of the lack of paragraph breaks. Kept getting lost. Made it as far as we only get 40 cents for every dollar.

    I get the basics I think... teamsters aren't returning a comparable return to what UPS contributes. Would love to see control of the pension fund go to vote.
  6. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    You guys that are stuck on the teamsters are all afraid that you will lose everything if we boot them out.Engineer 79 seems to be qualified to give some facts and you guys slam
    him as being a snake oil salesman.Change is always hard,but
    I think its time to rethink our options in the union department.
    I`m with Engineer lets get rid of the hoffas and move on.
  7. DorkHead

    DorkHead Active Member

    Engineer, I have full medical coverage with a copay of only 5 dollars for meds. Full dental and eyeglass care. In 8 years I will have 30 in with a monthly pension of 6100 dollars. I will be 55. If I take a popup of 400 dollars per month then my wife will receive 5700 dollars per month after I die until her death.

    I have read the APWA`s proposals and have emailed them with several questions. I have yet to receive a answer.

    I have no reason to join them and neither does the other people in our area.
  8. pkgdriver

    pkgdriver Member

    APWA may not be the answer but engineer has points.
    I sure wish i had my pension contrbutions put in my 401k
  9. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    you would have to vote out all unions then. Unions will always try to control the pension money.
  10. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Change is not always necessary.
  11. twnjrspc

    twnjrspc New Member

    Hell, our Local, State, and Federal Governments aren't working for us either. Should we withdrawl our U.S. citizenship. It's not that the on paper information you compiled doesn't sound good,and may be factual, but that this APWA doesn't exist. Who are they currently representing? Where are the UPS employees that are reaping all these APWA benefits? To the best us my knowledge, it's just all on paper. A paper Tiger!:ohmy:
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2007
  12. Bill

    Bill Member

    What plan are you with? You apparently have a much better plan than the rest of us, so this does not pertain to you. The Teamsters in Central States and other pension plans are taking advantage of us, and it time to change course and go in a positve direction so that we can all have what we are due with financial security.
  13. Bill

    Bill Member

    Once again you are distorting the facts. We understand that we need a union, but not the Teamsters who use us so that they can profit off our hard labor. We are not trying to eliminate all unions. We want to replace the Teamsters with the APWA. We want a union for UPS people only so that our pension and health money that UPS contributes does not go to other employees of other companies. Logically, if the same amount of money went to the APWA or the Teamsters, but the Teamsters gave away 60%, that would leave only 40% for UPS people. Isn't it better to have 100% (APWA) than 40% (Teamsters). What don't you understand?
  14. Bill

    Bill Member

    If the government does not work for you, you have an opportunity to vote them out. Look at the last election. This country was tired of the direction that the Bush administration and the Republican party was leading us, so we voted out 35 Republicans in the House and 6 Republican senators. The Democrats now control the House and Senate. The same is true of the Teamsters. They are not working for us, so it is time to vote them out and replace them with a union that will work for us.
  15. Bill

    Bill Member

    In this case it is. You come up with such brilliant rebuttals, that I don't even know why I waste my time with you. You make blank statements with no facts to back them up. Do some research, give me data or facts, and I will gladly debate you, but if you continue to put childish pictures (wrench), or make any more thoughtless statements, I will just ignore you in the future.
  16. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I was going to write a rebuttle post, but sweatyguy said in three words what I would have to say in 200 words. What you are failing miserably to understand is the burden of proof is not on me, but you and your APWA cronies. I am not the one advocating change of unions. I simply have to refer to the current master contract and show how nobody else in the world offers what we get. I only ask for you to prove to me that your solution will work. Show me where someone in the APWA has negotiated a contract with a company for a union. Show me the financial manager the APWA will use to manage our pensions. Finally, I want to see the APWA financial reports listing every source of income they recieve. Why does the APWA not want to release this information? What are they afraid of? Apparently this kind of information is so damaging that they don't want to risk releasing it.
  17. 3brownstars

    3brownstars Member

    Yes, I often refer to the contract that the IBT negotiated with UPS on my behalf. It seems to me that UPS is paying the money that they agreed to, but it's the IBT that is not living up to their end of the contract. If the company violates the contract what do you do?
    I think the APWA is our best chance of a secure future. If the good people that work for UPS see fit not vote them in, I hope the company will take control of our retirement and healthcare.
  18. oldupsman

    oldupsman Guest

    The biggest obstacle you APWA supporters face is the fact that all pension funds are not created equal. The second obstacle is you cannot promise any of the numbers you are putting out there. Engineer, you say your numbers are factual. Okay I'll believe you. And lets say you actually suceed and overthrow the Teamsters. What guarentee can you give me that UPS would agree to the same numbers in a contract negoiation. There is none. UPS makes you a final offer not even close to those numbers. What are you going to do, strike? Even Hoffa knows that won't work anymore. So many young guys in so much debt. People would be crossing the picket lines in droves.
    My pension fund still has both 25 and 30 and out at any age. We are in the UPS health care system which is bascially sounds like the same plan Dorkhead mentioned. We can retire at the age of 50 and keep the same plan we have now with UPS for 50.00 a month. While employed by UPS my cost is 0. I plan on retiring shortly at 3600.00 a month at age 55 with 32 years of full time service. I've been in the Teamster-UPS 401k plan since it's inception and have done quite well. I won't give you my number but is way above the average fund number.
    I work in a major east coast hub that houses 4 package car centers, approx 60 senority drivers in each ctr. plus a fulltime feeder list of 110 drivers. Who knows how many partimers. We run pretty much 24/7. I can honestly say to you no one has heard of the APWA. While I'll admit local Teamster meetings are not heavily attended those who do are involved. This years election will have at least 2 slates running with some independent canidates.
    You obviously believe in what you're doing and I admire that but I believe if you spent as much energy attending your local meetings and try to make changes there your time would be better spent. You certainly give me the impression that you're an intelligent guy who could defend hinself. I really have no interest in the APWA at all. Even if you were sucessful the process you are talking about would take years. And you certainly can't promise me a thing. But, hey, I still wish you good luck.
    I apolgize for some of my spelling and computer skills. Neither are very good.
  19. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Brett, it's no use. I've tried. I've asked Eng to answer questions too but he dissappears when cornered. Exam?:

    A few threads ago, he lambasted a BA that is also a City Councilman in a FL city. To cut to the chase, I asked him to PROVE his accusations against this councilman. All he can say is, "They're ALL corrupt" or "They ALL take extra money" or "They all work when they should be doing Teamster work". I merely, quite a few times I might add, asked if he would PROVE these times, money, effort, etc. Nothing yet. I concluded it's no use making an effort to answer his barbs, yes, BARBS, cuz he also called me naive.

    I am not going to give my time to someone that can only bad-mouth then turn. Brett, I'm on your side, I just advise you to do the same and let him continue to enlighten the gullible.
  20. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I've come to that same conclusion some time ago. He can only rant on topics he doesn't fully understand, and avoids having to answer any questions because quite simply he cannot. Although I am amused that his family has nothing else better to talk about at the dinner table than the teamster retirement funds. I'm going to add him to my ignore list soon because this is wasting my valuable time responding to his pointless posts. I would just hate for some newbie to stumble into one of his posts and unwittingly buy his snakeoil not knowing the full story.