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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 187826" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Good question on Tie's part and Big's answer of "not likely" would appear to me also to be the right answer. It's funny this came up because in recent time I've thought much on the current political situation we find ourselves. As I look back at various 2 term President's I seem to always see problems and scandels emerge within the 2nd term of various President's. </p><p> </p><p>FDR as he got deeper and deeper into his 2nd, 3rd and 4th terms had various issues arise. Ironically it was fear of some of these suggested abuses that put fuel to the cause of Presidential term limits of 2 terms only.</p><p> </p><p>Truman caught a lot of heat his 2nd term so that by the time he left office he was very low in the popularity scale. </p><p> </p><p>Eisenhower although popular because of WW2, he was catching flak especially from a growing political rightwing for being weak. Robert Welch's book "The Politician" although hardly unknown outside of hardcore rightwing circles is just one small example of a growing dissatisfaction with Ike within political circles that built towards 64' and the Goldwater effort. </p><p> </p><p>JFK never saw a 2nd term but I'd be willing to bet had history been without Oswald and of course the infamous "grassy knoll" I'd suspect at the least JFK's womenizing might have emerged in his 2nd term. </p><p> </p><p>LBJ's was the Vietnam failure that prevented his 2nd term. You might say he did it to himself but he gets an A++ for stepping up and taking blame and then stepping aside. Then again, was he told to do so because of political winds?</p><p> </p><p>Nixon of course the infamous Watergate. This one alone tops them all IMO.</p><p> </p><p>Carter, IMO is hard to say. I've always to this day thought that Carter was to nice a person for the political game itself. Politically I have many differences but I do think Carter really does mean well even though many people object to his methods. Hard to say what a 2nd term would have brought out.</p><p> </p><p>Reagan had Iran/Contra and I do think had Bush 1 made a 2nd term more would have come out on Iran/Contra and potentially more would have been made of not removing Saddam from power in the Gulf War. </p><p> </p><p>Clinton had everything from the obvious sex scandels to the Balkans to Whitewater to.... you know this guy whether be true or false was just surrounded by everything you could imagine. I'm not convinced there weren't some within his own party who wanted to get him. Let's be honest that the DLC and it's moderate positions was not a favorite of the hardcore left of the Democratic party who made up much of the grunt forces of the party itself. Besides, you gotta admit the late night show monologues were a blast when Clinton was President. </p><p> </p><p>Now we have Bush 2 and everything from the Iraq war to allegations of secret corp. alliances for the means and purpose of profit. Cheney and Halliburton to the war for oil or the war for Israel. Take your pick!</p><p> </p><p>It just seems that any 2nd term is almost assured of scandel or turmoil no matter who or party involved and that this is the life of American politics. I also believe as time goes by those scandels raise to a higher level of threat to the life and liberty of the American experience as we know it. They either present a real and present threat or we become numb to such continuing allegations that in the day that they really are true, whith the motion of a hand we laughing shrug them off and continue on in our life of oblivion. </p><p> </p><p>Chasing skirts is one thing but when you violate the law itself no matter at what level and when at the time you hold the highest level of Federal position over the executive branch of gov't that has the duty to setdown public policy that goes directly to the heart of federal law enforcment, then yes I'm very concerned over this and sadly all of the above mentioned men have engaged in actions that could be seen as threats to that very core with some more gross acts than others. We justify it with "well the intentions are well meaning" or even worse "hey this is our guy in there so I'm safe and happy so don't screw with us or else!" </p><p> </p><p>When you wake up on the 1st Wednesday morning of November 2008' will you still have that same warm and secure feeling if a certain women sit's atop the political pile? After that first year will you then find yourself a socalled "hardcore lefty" opponent of the Patriot Act or better yet will some of those "lefty" opponents now become "righty" proponents because it's their dog in the lead? </p><p> </p><p>In Rome's declining days, it's political leadership was surrounded by acts of evil and intrigue among it's highest leadership. In about all cases it's root cause was the desire to achieve personal power regardless of the human cost to the individual and the innocent while at the same time underminding a political opponent. In many cases murder itself was used as a tool and we have our own allegations of murder, death of JFK and most recently Vince Foster being among the most noted. We scoff at such allegations today because we are a civil and sophisticated peoples compared to the Romans of the late BCE and early CE period of history. I wonder if the Romans of their day on their Browncafe boasted with vaulted arrogance like ourselves to fluff off such suggestions of conspiracy and then to only learn in the years ahead how true many of those conspiracies turned out to be and in some cases even worse than imagined. Have political humans really evolved that far to avoid such unpleasantries? I personally think Big's own words are dead on the money again.</p><p> </p><p>NOT LIKELY!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 187826, member: 2189"] Good question on Tie's part and Big's answer of "not likely" would appear to me also to be the right answer. It's funny this came up because in recent time I've thought much on the current political situation we find ourselves. As I look back at various 2 term President's I seem to always see problems and scandels emerge within the 2nd term of various President's. FDR as he got deeper and deeper into his 2nd, 3rd and 4th terms had various issues arise. Ironically it was fear of some of these suggested abuses that put fuel to the cause of Presidential term limits of 2 terms only. Truman caught a lot of heat his 2nd term so that by the time he left office he was very low in the popularity scale. Eisenhower although popular because of WW2, he was catching flak especially from a growing political rightwing for being weak. Robert Welch's book "The Politician" although hardly unknown outside of hardcore rightwing circles is just one small example of a growing dissatisfaction with Ike within political circles that built towards 64' and the Goldwater effort. JFK never saw a 2nd term but I'd be willing to bet had history been without Oswald and of course the infamous "grassy knoll" I'd suspect at the least JFK's womenizing might have emerged in his 2nd term. LBJ's was the Vietnam failure that prevented his 2nd term. You might say he did it to himself but he gets an A++ for stepping up and taking blame and then stepping aside. Then again, was he told to do so because of political winds? Nixon of course the infamous Watergate. This one alone tops them all IMO. Carter, IMO is hard to say. I've always to this day thought that Carter was to nice a person for the political game itself. Politically I have many differences but I do think Carter really does mean well even though many people object to his methods. Hard to say what a 2nd term would have brought out. Reagan had Iran/Contra and I do think had Bush 1 made a 2nd term more would have come out on Iran/Contra and potentially more would have been made of not removing Saddam from power in the Gulf War. Clinton had everything from the obvious sex scandels to the Balkans to Whitewater to.... you know this guy whether be true or false was just surrounded by everything you could imagine. I'm not convinced there weren't some within his own party who wanted to get him. Let's be honest that the DLC and it's moderate positions was not a favorite of the hardcore left of the Democratic party who made up much of the grunt forces of the party itself. Besides, you gotta admit the late night show monologues were a blast when Clinton was President. Now we have Bush 2 and everything from the Iraq war to allegations of secret corp. alliances for the means and purpose of profit. Cheney and Halliburton to the war for oil or the war for Israel. Take your pick! It just seems that any 2nd term is almost assured of scandel or turmoil no matter who or party involved and that this is the life of American politics. I also believe as time goes by those scandels raise to a higher level of threat to the life and liberty of the American experience as we know it. They either present a real and present threat or we become numb to such continuing allegations that in the day that they really are true, whith the motion of a hand we laughing shrug them off and continue on in our life of oblivion. Chasing skirts is one thing but when you violate the law itself no matter at what level and when at the time you hold the highest level of Federal position over the executive branch of gov't that has the duty to setdown public policy that goes directly to the heart of federal law enforcment, then yes I'm very concerned over this and sadly all of the above mentioned men have engaged in actions that could be seen as threats to that very core with some more gross acts than others. We justify it with "well the intentions are well meaning" or even worse "hey this is our guy in there so I'm safe and happy so don't screw with us or else!" When you wake up on the 1st Wednesday morning of November 2008' will you still have that same warm and secure feeling if a certain women sit's atop the political pile? After that first year will you then find yourself a socalled "hardcore lefty" opponent of the Patriot Act or better yet will some of those "lefty" opponents now become "righty" proponents because it's their dog in the lead? In Rome's declining days, it's political leadership was surrounded by acts of evil and intrigue among it's highest leadership. In about all cases it's root cause was the desire to achieve personal power regardless of the human cost to the individual and the innocent while at the same time underminding a political opponent. In many cases murder itself was used as a tool and we have our own allegations of murder, death of JFK and most recently Vince Foster being among the most noted. We scoff at such allegations today because we are a civil and sophisticated peoples compared to the Romans of the late BCE and early CE period of history. I wonder if the Romans of their day on their Browncafe boasted with vaulted arrogance like ourselves to fluff off such suggestions of conspiracy and then to only learn in the years ahead how true many of those conspiracies turned out to be and in some cases even worse than imagined. Have political humans really evolved that far to avoid such unpleasantries? I personally think Big's own words are dead on the money again. NOT LIKELY! [/QUOTE]
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