Business and 21st Century: UNION not needed

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by JaxUPSHub, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. JaxUPSHub

    JaxUPSHub New Member

    Hey there fellow UPSers:

    Hypothetically speaking and for a pure intellectual discussion, I am asking:"Is it possible to disband the Union at UPS, and would it be beneficial in the long run?"

    From a theoretical perspective:

    Any company should strive to maximize growth aka PROFIT. Employees should be treated fairly, and fulfill duties in accordance with the Job Description. In any business you will always have someone to answer to, UPS is no different. Hence we have management, and again UPS's management team is like everyone else s; they are trying to make ends meet.

    I guess I'm not quite sure where I am going with this, but it seems to me that UPS is suffering because of the Union.

    Please correct me if I am wrong, educate me, as I am trying to understand the need for Unions in today's world. I will come to work regardless of whether I'm in the Union or not. The job needs to get done with or without a Union.

    Again, please enrich my knowledge of the need of the Union at UPS; Would the employees be much worst off without Union Representation?
    What about management? Shouldn't management (including PT sups) receive a higher salary based on their job description and overall bigger range of responsibilities they have compared to the 'line' worker.

    I really do not understand the need for them. Again, this is the 21st century and many things have changed from the 70's and 80's, do we really need them? Would the whole operation not work without the Unions?


  2. Big Babooba

    Big Babooba Well-Known Member

    Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
  3. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    you're wrong.

    case closed
  4. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    I've never been a huge fan of unions. I only think that they are necessary in certain environments. UPS is definitely one of them. Last I heard only 12% of the US workforce is unionized. I found it hard to believe and that number may be way off. Regardless......if the union were to ever go away at UPS it would be a living nightmare to work for them. There are lots of jobs out their that don't need unions and some jobs that should be protected from unionizing. The military and certain civilian jobs that work with the military are perfect examples of that. It's actually in the UCMJ (The military's version of The Constitution). UPS definitely needs the Teamsters. Does Wal-mart, McDonalds, or whoever need a union? Not necessarily.
  5. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Sure it would work. Lots of companies work without unions. The question is whether you would want to work for UPS without a union, I know I wouldn't.

    BLACKBOX Life is a Highway...

    Yes. The NMA states specifically what your job is and when management tries to stray away from that or modify it to their advantage, you have resources and representation if your argument is valid, you don't have that with non-union entities like FDX, etc....

    But, at the same time I think UPS would love to go non-union. The thought of PC drivers getting paid FDX type wages would send our stock through the roof.

    So, yes don't even want to know what that scenario would be like, not in this point of my career.
  7. bluehdmc

    bluehdmc Well-Known Member

    Just compare the FedEx workers wages, benefits, etc. to the UPS workers. Who's making more per hour, pays for benefits, has protection from arbitrary firings or discipline, etc?
    I know there are some people that will say the union protects the "lazy" or whatever they want to call it, but by the same token the union also protects the worker from the crazy managers. The union also prevents the company from just deciding that there will be no raises, or a contribution to benefits, (which could be construed as a cut in pay).
    I think I'll stay with the union myself.
  8. 40 and out

    40 and out Active Member

    I don't even want to think what working for UPS would be like without union representation. I'm not a big fan of unions either, but I think UPS is a special case where its definitely needed.
  9. JaxUPSHub

    JaxUPSHub New Member

    Hmm. I agree with all your posts and guess you are correct. Management would work us like slaves; what a shame really.

    Few questions: 1. How much does UPS payout in grievances annually (estimated)?
    2. Why are the so many grievances filed? What are examples of when an employee should/did file a grievance? And consequently, if its a recurrent pattern (topic of grievances filed), shouldn't management be able to 'FIX' that sort of problem??

    I guess I am trying to find out, if there is a way to stop employees from filing grievances that costs UPS and in turn employees/customers hard earned money. What can management do to help this situation??

    Lastly, and I just need to get this of my not very hairy chest, I feel pity for MOST PT Supervisors in my Hub; here is why: They always 'hunt' someone down to go home early. Granted they ask, however, it is a persistent and very annoying phenomena that happens EACH day. Furthermore, the PT Sups asks you this JUST when you get into the building. And this is for all PT Sups out there: Chances are that when I just got to work, I do not want to leave early, or I should say think about leaving work. Ask me right before break, or 10 minutes after break, I guarantee you will ALWAYS find a 'victim'.

    Ok, that was it, gotta get ready for work tonight :(
  10. sendagain

    sendagain Member

    Unions do fine in companies where people work their butts off and get good wages. Where it goes wrong is when the production declines and the wages increase. Eventually you run the business into the ground and can't pay the benefits and wages that were in effect when people worked harder. You go broke and that's where the auto companies are.

    On the other hand, FedEx takes advantage of their contract drivers and work them into the ground. Apparently, they have some judges in their pocket who think that's just fine.
  11. No such person

    No such person Southern Ct.

    I've never been a big supporter of unions myself, but when I'm 60 and my center manager wants to know why I'm slower than the 25 year old guys, I'll be very glad I'm in a union.
  12. purplesky

    purplesky Active Member

    You are a troll or just someone who needs to educate themself on the history of unions and why they were formed long before the 70s and 80s. This country has seen wages stay flat for decades and now they are actually going down. The result is a shrinking weak middle class and a terrible economy that will not recover for a long time. UPS makes billions of dollars in profit and the little people on the line get a decent paycheck and fuel the economy. Its a win win situation for all. UPS managers are paid based on what the union people make so they dont want the Teamsters to make less money and some will admit that. Unions are needed more than ever now everywhere in the world because workers need a voice. If you dont get this workers need a voice thing than go to Walmart and get locked in a store and get robbed of overtime or go to FDX ground and work for 12hours a day with no overtime dude. If you are not a troll dude please WAKE UP and learn your history! AND NO ITS NOT LEGALLY POSSIBLE TO BREAK UP THE UNION AT UPS UNLESS THE UNION MEMBERSHIP VOTED THEMSELVES OUT AND THATS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. IF ANYTHING YOU WILL SEE ALOT OF NON-UNION JOBS ELIMINATED FROM UPS AND THAT IS UnFORTUNATE because our economy needs good paying jobs. Its the race to the bottum mentality that is killing us.
  13. jimstud

    jimstud Banned

    i personally think the whole thing would work better without management. after drivers are dispatched what do full time management personal do? answer basicly nothing , so you think their pay should be increased while we go out and move the cardboard (the thing that actually makes ups money)and disband the union. yeah that would be a good thing if you want to take a 50% pay cut.
  14. konsole

    konsole Member

    Like others have said I would be all for the elimination of the union because no company should have to put up with a terrible employee. I just do not trust the way the company will be run and employees will be treated if there was no union. What makes more sense to me is UPS and the union come up with some reasonable agreements like if your over a certain age then you cannot be hired to do the more physical jobs, or if your performance is consistently bad then UPS can let you go, or if you have taken way too many days off then UPS can freeze your pay increases. Maybe even a set group of items that if an employee has stayed under a certain level of days off, and kept the quality of their work at a certain level, and maybe not had much attitude issues then they can receive the preset raise, but if they don't then they don't receive the raise. If the benefits disappeared with the union then there atleast needs to be a decent pay increase or else not many people are gonna work of the company. I know many people right now who only work there because of the good benefits. Take away those and not provide a pay increase and I guarantee 1/3 of the workers would quit right away.
  15. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Those sound like wonderful ideas! Seriously, you should start your own union based on negotiating for those types of benefits, once word gets out people will flock to sign up. The Teamsters won't know what hit them.
  16. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    The answer is simple; they could simly honor the labor agreement that they entered into.

    Follow the contract= no grievances.
  17. bumped

    bumped Well-Known Member

    While we're at it. Why don't we get rid of all of the women, and anyone with any type of disability. Oh heck, if your not 6', blonde hair, and blue eyes you need not apply.
  18. jimstud

    jimstud Banned

    now that is funny.
  19. grgrcr88

    grgrcr88 No It's not green grocer!

    Are you people INSANE, have you or anyone you work with ever been accused of wrongdoing and went thru the grievance process only to be exonerated? If not its only a matter of time!! If it were not for the Union you could be fired for anything, anytime they felt like it!!

    Not to mention the negotiated pay and benefits, did any of you hear that no management employees got raises or bonuses this year? Did you get a raise? Do you think that is because management is so nice they decided to give up their raises so you could get one? You certainly are not that naive??

    If there was no contract you would lose all kind of money and benefits due to whatever excuse the company wanted to use!!!

    By the way if you are working in a union shop without paying dues, you should really think about that!! The money and benefits you enjoy now came on the backs of the hard working TEAMSTERS that came before you, and that is not FREE!!!!!!
  20. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    If you want to know what UPS would be like to work for without union representation, just look at the way that the lower and mid-level management people are treated. They took a pay freeze, a benefit cut, and loss of 401K match; meanwhile, CEO Scott Davis writes himself a $5 million dollar per year pay increase.