Can a sup RTS without my permission?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by SortAisleKing, May 14, 2014.

  1. SortAisleKing

    SortAisleKing New Member

    First of all, I want to thank you all! You're all like certified paralegals on a level I wish to ascertain one day. I'm a longtime lurker and first time poster. I've always been able to search the forums and come up with an answer but no luck this time. So here goes.

    Earlier this year I was offered the day off which I took. I look at my check and I was paid for 4 hours like I had called in sick. I foolishly didn't say anything or file on it and now it's coming back to haunt me. I was sick yesterday but didn't have any days left(mainly due to them offering a day off then charging me a sick day, this happened at least 3x). They come to me today with the union steward for the local sort for a 'doc talk'. He said "This is a documented talk about your attendance, you understand that you're out of sick days, right?" I said 'yes and where do I sign? Now first, lemme tell you this: I had read some comments here about the case could be made that you're being uncooperative by not signing some things(and I understand the RTS argument, too), well, I would have signed this because my attendance is usually spot-on! Some years I get checks for leftover sick days. I understand that I should have filed on those days off(or just worked them, in retrospect) but I didn't and now that ship has sailed. The problem I have now is that I wasn't given the option to either sign or say that I RTS. When I asked 'where do i sign' he said that he had RTS'd it for me already. Is this considered falsifying a document? I've heard that can be pretty bad. Does anyone think I may have a case? My local sort steward was there but he's kinda clueless on anything beyond sups working. I'm going to call the morning steward later tomorrow for a better idea but wanted to ask yall first.

    On a side note, I'm a little paranoid and don't want a target on my back at this critical junction in my UPS career. I'm next to go full time after a staggering amount of time. I don't want this to interfere with that and I especially don't want to lose my job and insurance. I don't want to say to much as to give away my identity in case of any undercover lurkers but I'm a (slightly less than)10 yr employee of UPS, union member since the first time they asked me to join, nose to the grindstone all night - I have a very good work ethic and my coworkers respect me for that. I've always told the new hires, just work hard and nobody will even look your way. Well, now even your best isn't good enough. I hope yall can understand my plight! Thanks for your help.
  2. 8up

    8up Member

    yeah, i have heard this before. if you are absent, not working the shift, the company will burn your sick-time up to the point where you only have your personal holidays remaining. it's not a bad thing, unless you really like taking the time off early in the year, just because it was offered to you on a slow night. then when you do need to get off your accrued time is depleted and you still need to be off. ooops bad planning on you part. paid time off is a valuable commodity, you should manage it wisely, and not let yourself be duped by a supervisor trying to lower his head count on a low volume shift by convincing you to take off with pay, up to the point that all of your paid days are spent. then if you're a p.o.s., they'll have greater leverage to get you out the door for excessive absenteeism. but some well meaning supervisor can just code you off without pay because they know it works better for both sides who work together of several things. maybe that's why it's called working together. it's all about how well you get along to get along, then anything is possible.
    good luck, good vibes, good times to be had by all those who have a good vibe.
  3. SortAisleKing

    SortAisleKing New Member

    You're right. I should have done something about it then .. but I didn't. Now I'm living with those consequences. That's part of the reason I'm so :censored2:, because I let it come to this. It's entirely my fault that I got a doc talk. I've made my peace with that and vow to never let them screw me again on my time or pto's. From this day forward I will be documenting all my hours, days off and infractions I see(sups working, etc). I've always gotten along with management and have always worked hard and maintain a very good attendance record, IMO. What's messed up is that there's a cover driver from the night shift(pt) who hardly ever drives but never works the local sort. You'd think he'd be written up and not me since I have nearly twice the seniority he has.
    Anywho, I appreciate the input.
  4. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    That's falsifying documents. I'd say it's up to you as far as pursuing it..

    RTS'ing a document really depends on past/local practice. You can be fired for insubordination for refusing to sign documents -- so long as they don't relate to the concept of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay (new language) or they consist of an extra contract agreement.

    It's a moot point, regardless, because your signature only acknowledges that the entry is being added to your center/employee file not that you agree with it. The same thing applies to managers and signing grievances -- their signature only demonstrates acknowledgement it was received, not that they agree with the merits.
  5. SortAisleKing

    SortAisleKing New Member

    Hi. Thanks for the reply!

    I understand what you're saying about it being a moot point. What I'm saying though is that if they can RTS it without even asking me, what's to stop them from doing that a bunch of times and never telling me? It would add up quick and I would look like a bad employee because of their BS. I would have signed it but couldn't because he had already RTS'd it. It just seems like I should be the one writing RTS(or signing my name like I would have this time). Thanks again for the reply.
  6. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    This is untrue. Article 6 of the national master agreement covers the signing of documents very clearly. YOU DONT HAVE TO SIGN ANYTHING but the back of your paycheck.

    The company cannot attempt to force you to sign any documents or make you enter any side agreements outside the scope of the national contract.

    Lets say he wanted you to sign a form that said you would never call in sick for the rest of the year, HE CANT. and even if you did sign it, it would be VOID and non binding.

    There is NO insubordination for refusing to sign documents at UPS.


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  7. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    This is why we have that contract language -- so a dimwit PT supervisor can't railroad someone by filling up their employee record with a bunch of bull:censored2: they don't even know about and then firing them without them even knowing what's happening.

    You're allowed to view your employee record when you wish when you're off the clock. The main thing you need to look for are a steward's signature/initials. If the supervisor is RTS'ing all of your write-ups and there's no steward signing off on it, everything would be tossed out if you were every "formally" disciplined.

    If you really want to burn him, call the 1-800 number and tell 'em this guy is putting "RTS" on all of your write-ups without even giving you a chance to sign or reviewing them with you. Sit back and let the good times roll.
  8. SortAisleKing

    SortAisleKing New Member

    Great answer and thank you very much! He did review it with me and my steward was there but he's new and doesn't really know any of the finer details like this. I'm going to go in early tonight and review my file.
  9. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    Not only have I read the contract, I watched a member lose his job at panel for insubordination for refusing to sign a document that was not considered an illegal side agreement.
  10. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    You can refuse to sign but you do have to print RTS on the document.