S
speeddemon
Guest
Our center manager put in his two week notice a few days ago. Hes going to work for a architectual firm. Ups just spent big money on buying him a home to move him back from where he was. Could this be the beginning of a trend?
More are doing it now before the golden handcuffs really kick in. In a few years if they leave they'll be walking away from over 100k or more, depending on their level,in delayed bonus money to go somewhere else. Speaking of leaving, any chance UPS will offer us slow senior drivers a buy out like GM is doing so they can get more run and gun kids in? A man can dream can't he?
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
I don't know if your buyout dream is really a "dream" or a statistical reality. The company probably already has number crunchers looking at such an idea. Offer the old folks an attractive and STABLE early retirement and hire a herd of kids, who can run and gun, at $4-6 less dollars an hour and 5-6 weeks less vacation a year. Think of the money the company would save and the increased production levels.
Count me in as a "dreamer".
Count me in as a "dreamer".
wily_old_vet
Well-Known Member
tieguy said:
Tie-are you saying this test is biased towards say IE and against those with a production background? If that is so my feelings for the future prospects of the company are not good.
tieguy
Banned
wily_old_vet said:
Wily , you're right on the money. Going to be an interesting experiment. We have about 15 openings in the district and have two applicants that have passed the new promotion process. Good young kids that have shown the ability to lead under fire can't get past the tests. Once the applicant fails he can't retest for a year. Wouldn't be surprised to see some talent leave the company rather than take a chance on waiting a year and failing again.
Tyrone Slothrop
Well-Known Member
tieguy said:
Love the new sig, your intelligence shines through. The company is in good hands.
S
speeddemon
Guest
same at my center
wkmac
Well-Known Member
tieguy said:
Whether the test is bias or not I can't say but you are dead on the money about the applicants with staff background moving up into positions of directing this company. These folks have little and in most cases no experience at all from the trenches where the rubber meets the road. Years ago, we had an IE manager that told his people that is they came up with a plan they themselves had to first go out and actually perform the task and prove they could do it before they held someone else accountable for doing it. This guy also had come up through the ranks and knew how it all worked and boy did we get the work done in those days. Also explained his common sense approach to it all as well. Can't say that now!
Last year we had one of those rocket scientist desk jockeys determine that the correct unload rate for a 4 stage extendo was 1800 pph. Now first off there are 3600 seconds in an hour so doing the math that means you place a package on the extendo every 2 seconds during that hour to make that rate. Now our rocket scientist may say, "well some packages can be double and triple stacked on the belt to achieve this time if need be" but tell me ole' little one, how does this square with the UPS operation method of one package at a time, label up and with hand to surface methods? Every look at the methods video or read the hub methods manual before you did your study? Do you even know what that is or that they exist? Probably not. How do you propose to make your goal when in a 53' trailer and the extendo only goes in 40 feet? What about the time for the mechanical operation of extending and retracting the unit not to mention the adjusting the vertical height and repositioning of the load stand to maintain working in your power zone?
Now here's the real kicker. Look at the belt speed itself. Measure the feet per minute and then determine the total distance traveled in a 1 hour period. Now divide your 1800 pph number into that distance to achieve a center of package to center of package distance and you'll arrive at the magic measure of 27 inches. So you're telling me that you want an unload rate that requires you to place a package on the belt every 27 inches? Folks, those of you with any experience at all dealing with packages and the size we're running now, do you believe it's possible to sort placing a package on the mark every 27 inches, every 2 seconds for the entire sort span and get all our packages to fit within this measured framework? Now I've seen people in certian loads have moments where this number was hit for a period of time but for some idiot to draft up a plan using that number and conditions as an achiveable figure and then try and lock in a sort to a business plan based on that figure is IMO nuts! And then later you cry in your Wheaties because you can't understand why you're not making your business plan. "Plan the work and work the plan" or now we've changed that to "Plan to fail, work to fail and you will!"
To quote myself again, "these folks have little and in most case no experience at all from the trenches where the rubber meets the road!" Tie, if that's where you going, preach it brother! You're 1000% correct and you and I for sure don't always agree but I'm right with ya on this one!
Sorry, this thread struke a nerve with me that I've seen with my own eyes.
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dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Its the king and his new clothes all over again.
Imagine if you will a room full of BUG's at a meeting where Junior Hoffa is rallying the troops. Nothing like hundreds if not thousands of yes men that keep the reality from dear Mr Hoffa. Why? Because their jobs depend on it. Keep him happy and all is well.
Oh hell yes, give them, the great unwashed stupid little lemmings some photo ops and everything is great in Teamster land. And for sure lets put some on the cover of teamstermag with their mouths wide open and fists raised, that ought to impress them that we know what we are doing.
Reminds me of rabble rousing.
Now switch to UPS. Hundreds if not thousands of pencil pushing desk jockeys that now use computers to figure out ways to save pennies while spending dollars to do so. They are so impressed with the knowledge they have, and of course are indispensable to UPS. But to make sure they are not shoved to the side like other support services have been, they keep on "cutting" imaginary costs. Problem is they are not on the same page as others in the company doing the same thing.
For example. They tell automotive that they need to reduce the amount of fuel used. So they figure out to run the cars more lean, thus saving the company $12 million dollars in fuel each year. Desk jockey gets a pat on the back, a raise and all is well in UPS land. And of course the tree huggers praise UPS for its environmentally friendly stand.
Problem is that when you run the car more lean, you reduce the power available to the driver. If running down the hi way in flat states, no big deal. To a stop and go delivery driver, esp one in areas with hills or mountains, it takes forever to get to interstate speeds, if at all. 60-65 MPH is more likely. So it takes more time on road to complete the daily routine. But that is not their problem now is it, that is someone else's problem.
So another group of UPS yes men pull up their programs to figure out that the drivers are not working at the speed that they used to, so we need to figure out ways to improve production. Same holds true for the preload. Forget the fact that the feeder drivers can no longer do the speed limit to get to the centers, we have to save fuel. So instead of focusing on earlier loads, we just have to get the guys to work harder and faster once the loads are there. So just juggle the numbers a bit, and lookie here, the answer pops right up. So we have a winner again. The unloaders are just not working to the potential.
That is what you get when you give someone screwy information to work with, and expect results that make sense. It just will not happen.
But then again, as I have heard the info sector crowd keep saying, it is more important for the customer to know where the package is than to get the package. While knowledge of where the package is is important, it is only so for the estimated time of DELIVERY.
So for the vast majority of customers, getting the package on time is more important that being able to track it (which many of us know is really a farce anyway as it is so funny how packages never in the system get delivered, packages that get lost without a trace, packages that show arrival in centers that never get them etc.)
Interesting though. I have two brother-in-laws that do just that. For years they have worked to reduce the costs of goods production, and the end result is moving the business to Mexico, and now to other places since Mexico is beginning to get expensive.
My thoughts are that UPS will get the delivery of packages down to where anyone off the street can do it with a day's training. OR less. And we are getting to the point where the UPS driver as we know it will be a thing of the past. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it is coming. Total automation of routes, and dictation of how and when is here. The rest to follow.
Imagine if you will a room full of BUG's at a meeting where Junior Hoffa is rallying the troops. Nothing like hundreds if not thousands of yes men that keep the reality from dear Mr Hoffa. Why? Because their jobs depend on it. Keep him happy and all is well.
Oh hell yes, give them, the great unwashed stupid little lemmings some photo ops and everything is great in Teamster land. And for sure lets put some on the cover of teamstermag with their mouths wide open and fists raised, that ought to impress them that we know what we are doing.
Reminds me of rabble rousing.
Now switch to UPS. Hundreds if not thousands of pencil pushing desk jockeys that now use computers to figure out ways to save pennies while spending dollars to do so. They are so impressed with the knowledge they have, and of course are indispensable to UPS. But to make sure they are not shoved to the side like other support services have been, they keep on "cutting" imaginary costs. Problem is they are not on the same page as others in the company doing the same thing.
For example. They tell automotive that they need to reduce the amount of fuel used. So they figure out to run the cars more lean, thus saving the company $12 million dollars in fuel each year. Desk jockey gets a pat on the back, a raise and all is well in UPS land. And of course the tree huggers praise UPS for its environmentally friendly stand.
Problem is that when you run the car more lean, you reduce the power available to the driver. If running down the hi way in flat states, no big deal. To a stop and go delivery driver, esp one in areas with hills or mountains, it takes forever to get to interstate speeds, if at all. 60-65 MPH is more likely. So it takes more time on road to complete the daily routine. But that is not their problem now is it, that is someone else's problem.
So another group of UPS yes men pull up their programs to figure out that the drivers are not working at the speed that they used to, so we need to figure out ways to improve production. Same holds true for the preload. Forget the fact that the feeder drivers can no longer do the speed limit to get to the centers, we have to save fuel. So instead of focusing on earlier loads, we just have to get the guys to work harder and faster once the loads are there. So just juggle the numbers a bit, and lookie here, the answer pops right up. So we have a winner again. The unloaders are just not working to the potential.
That is what you get when you give someone screwy information to work with, and expect results that make sense. It just will not happen.
But then again, as I have heard the info sector crowd keep saying, it is more important for the customer to know where the package is than to get the package. While knowledge of where the package is is important, it is only so for the estimated time of DELIVERY.
So for the vast majority of customers, getting the package on time is more important that being able to track it (which many of us know is really a farce anyway as it is so funny how packages never in the system get delivered, packages that get lost without a trace, packages that show arrival in centers that never get them etc.)
Interesting though. I have two brother-in-laws that do just that. For years they have worked to reduce the costs of goods production, and the end result is moving the business to Mexico, and now to other places since Mexico is beginning to get expensive.
My thoughts are that UPS will get the delivery of packages down to where anyone off the street can do it with a day's training. OR less. And we are getting to the point where the UPS driver as we know it will be a thing of the past. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it is coming. Total automation of routes, and dictation of how and when is here. The rest to follow.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
You know Dboy, you are right about UPS getting it down to where anyone off the street can do the job and I've got no problem with UPS trying to lower it's operating cost. That's business babe!
On the flipside however, I'm sure there are lots of managers thinking this would be a good thing but I got news for them. Many of them will go the way of the dinosaur as well. So in some respects, as we go so they go!
We have more a relationship to one another than we think!
On the flipside however, I'm sure there are lots of managers thinking this would be a good thing but I got news for them. Many of them will go the way of the dinosaur as well. So in some respects, as we go so they go!
We have more a relationship to one another than we think!
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
What are the current PE hourly union people going to do when the company can get any mindless automaton off the street to do their job?
Is that business, Babe, or is it greed?
We are all dispensable but I think you will find that management gets dispensed last.
Be careful what you wish for.
Is that business, Babe, or is it greed?
We are all dispensable but I think you will find that management gets dispensed last.
Be careful what you wish for.
YAKMASTA
Member
CMON OLD TIMERS RETIRE MAKE SOME ROOM FOR US BOTTOM GUYS ONLY 5 YEARS WITH BIG BROWN AND I WANNA DRIVE A REAL TRUCK IM TIRED OF ALL THESE DAME CUSTOMERS AND THERE SOB STORIES JUST TO GET A SECOND DELIVERY ATTEMPT THE SAME DAY !!! WHAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA !!! ITS OUR TURN !!!
Re: tips on how to have a "positive" timestudy ride
<HR style="COLOR: #c7b996" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->its amazing these trime study's havent been done in my center in 10 years and now they are running 50% of the building like its actually going to make a difference....
they will continue to overload us and they cry when we bang out its nothing but organized slavery !!! then they wonder why the comp rate is so high we are only human and the body does eventually break down in 5 years ive been onb comp 4 times and am already into a knee surgery !!!!
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
DISGRUNTLED 804 MEMBER
After being on comp 4 times in 5 years, I doubt you could handle a real truck.
<!-- / sig -->
<HR style="COLOR: #c7b996" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->its amazing these trime study's havent been done in my center in 10 years and now they are running 50% of the building like its actually going to make a difference....
they will continue to overload us and they cry when we bang out its nothing but organized slavery !!! then they wonder why the comp rate is so high we are only human and the body does eventually break down in 5 years ive been onb comp 4 times and am already into a knee surgery !!!!
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
DISGRUNTLED 804 MEMBER
After being on comp 4 times in 5 years, I doubt you could handle a real truck.
<!-- / sig -->
wkmac
Well-Known Member
trickpony1 said:
Trick,
Let's just say if UPS wants to do that then they can and it's business. And if they pull that then I'm prepared and more than ready with my knowledge and 30 years doing industrial maintenance including knowledge of much of the latest technolgy and computer controls along with the fact I'm also a Journeyman Class A machinist so I do have a few options in my backpocket. However, using Worldport as a model with it's technolgy and automation and the huge size of the PE mechanic numbers, I'd say for the time being UPS hasn't found that part of the Holy Grail yet. Doesn't mean they won't but with the drive towards technology I'd say in the meantime there will be more of folks like me than less.
Besides, there are 1000's and 1000's of drivers and maybe a 1000 plus PE mechanics within the UPS system. If you were looking to reap huge savings where would you start? I can cut $1 from each PE mechanic nationwide and save a little over a $1000 total or I can cut $.10 from each of the 80k drivers and save $8000. Now which is likely easier to do and more cost effective? Not picking on drivers as they are the heartbeat of the company but for the same amount of energy or maybe even less you can get 8 times the savings.
As to your point of getting some automaton to do my job. Yes, it will happen and many automated systems do self diagnois now and at some point will either self repair or can be repaired via remote. But even those systems will need someone to maintain them and I'll either outrun that concept or at present I'm adapting and preparing myself already for that potential. Automation is really a boom for me far, far more than it's a bust. The flipside is I see more and more of that and at present that amount of technology is not completely realistic and affordable just yet. Biggest reason you don't see vastly more automation in UPS is the cost BUT as labor costs and all that associates with it plus the shrinking labor pool at the present starting wage of $8.50 an hour is drying up, the pendulum is and will swing to the automation side more and more. Plus, automation is getting cheaper and cheaper as it comes to be more broadly used.
I'm also not convinced in any real way that UPS is willing to use PAS, EDD, etc. at this point to push a confrontation with it's union workforce to the point of a strike to replace it's entire workforce with folks off the street. Especially the driver job, it's just not something learned in a day, a week, a month and they know that. Now if we push to hard in 08' then all bets are off but Hoffa knows where his bread is buttered and is not likely to pull and Carey and commit stupidcide.
Things are going to good for UPS right now and we've gained so much since 97' concerning the customer. However, it's a given labor costs will continue to rise and with that we will be squeezed for every ounce of efficency they can get to pay for it. Now that's business!
That's JMO.
c ya and be good.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
YAKMASTA said:CMON OLD TIMERS RETIRE MAKE SOME ROOM FOR US BOTTOM GUYS ONLY 5 YEARS WITH BIG BROWN AND I WANNA DRIVE A REAL TRUCK IM TIRED OF ALL THESE DAME CUSTOMERS AND THERE SOB STORIES JUST TO GET A SECOND DELIVERY ATTEMPT THE SAME DAY !!! WHAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA !!! ITS OUR TURN !!!
OK I agree with ya. So what's the plan? Get all your fellow, less than 10 year UPS co-workers and go to the next union meeting and volunteer to give $2 an hour of your pay to go straight into the pension plan to get it back up to snuff and we'll get out of the way!
Sounds like a good plan to me!
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