Cherry picking for easy warning letters...

[Re-Raise]

here's the problem. If you go out and have an injury or accident then the supervisor and manager will be blamed for your having either.

When a driver has an accident or injury our divison manager has to get on a conference call the next morning with safety and the district manager. At that point he has to review the drivers previous ride information, His previous safe work methods information and the drivers previous observations done by his supervisor.

If for instance the driver was not wearing a seat belt then the district manager would ask the question why did the drivers manager and supervisor not know that the driver was out there acting unsafely. Why didnt they not know it and not correct this unsafe behavior before the driver got hurt or had an accident.

So the intent is to get the supevisor out there observing and preventing injuries and accidents. How the intent gets transalated is another story.

cost and productivity could be argued a lot of different ways. If the sup can prevent one tier three accident through his training and observations then he can save the company about 48,000 dollars.
then factor in the cost and savings of keeping you the experienced driver in that seat rather then either splitting out the route and or training a new driver in the job.
There is a definitely a business benifit to keeping all of your injury and accident free.

I can honestly say I have never had a supervisor do anything or say anything that has prevented injuries or accidents in my center. They may think they are with their little slogans they have us remember.

They may sit around the office looking at the little no sorrow backing papers they have us sign and think they are important.

The bottom line is UPS pays a high enough wage to attract intelligent and responsible drivers who take pride in their jobs. These type of employees have a limited number of accidents and injuries.

I am proud to be a part of my driver group and we worry about each other's safety. I have learned more from other drivers than I ever have from supervisors who couldn't even do the job.

Supervisors worry about the conference call, we worry about each other.

 

[UPSviking]

Supervisors worry about the conference call, we worry about each other.

Amen....

+1

 

[soberups]

There is a definitely a business benifit to keeping all of your injury and accident free.

Agreed.

And there are a lot of things we could be doing to reduce accidents and injuries....but cherry-picking a bunch of bulls%$t warning letters in order to meet a quota isnt one of them.

I compared this behavior in an anology to the cop who sits at the bottom of a hill all day with a bag of donuts and a radar gun, writing tickets for doing 26 in a 25.

Is he really making things safer? Or do his actions...though technically legal....wind up endangering lives by diverting his attention away from real issues as well as creating a complete lack of respect for the law that he is supposedly upholding?

How are we as employees supposed to take safety seriously when we see our management wasting huge amounts of time and resources on such drivel while real safety issues (unfair time allowances, excessive dispatch, unsafe equipment etc.) are completely ignored?

I sat thru two meetings concerning this warning letter. They were 1/2 an hour each. I was represented by a steward. That totals two hours of driver time at the overtime rate, plus whatever we paid the center manager to drive out on my route in her car to spy on me. There will be more meetings, over the grievance I will be filing for over supervision. Our shareholders have already pissed away several hundred dollars on this deal. Was it really worth it?

You made a business decision that my life wasnt worth the $50 it would have cost to put a 3 pt seat belt in your cars. You made a business decision that the health of my wrists, shoulders and arms wasnt worth the $300 it would have cost to put power steering in your cars. To then turn around and spew out warning letters to everyone who breathes in order to create a "culture of safety" is, quite frankly, hypocritical.

 

[MC4YOU2]

here's the problem. If you go out and have an injury or accident then the supervisor and manager will be blamed for your having either.

When a driver has an accident or injury our divison manager has to get on a conference call the next morning with safety and the district manager. At that point he has to review the drivers previous ride information, His previous safe work methods information and the drivers previous observations done by his supervisor.

If for instance the driver was not wearing a seat belt then the district manager would ask the question why did the drivers manager and supervisor not know that the driver was out there acting unsafely. Why didnt they not know it and not correct this unsafe behavior before the driver got hurt or had an accident.

So the intent is to get the supevisor out there observing and preventing injuries and accidents. How the intent gets transalated is another story.

cost and productivity could be argued a lot of different ways. If the sup can prevent one tier three accident through his training and observations then he can save the company about 48,000 dollars.
then factor in the cost and savings of keeping you the experienced driver in that seat rather then either splitting out the route and or training a new driver in the job.
There is a definitely a business benifit to keeping all of your injury and accident free.

I can see that side of the coin so far as a primarily cost saving strategy, but your scenario assumes a worst case scenario (tier III) and we can not tell if the behavior was aggregious, only that there was an alleged behavior. I would ask if you are aware, from a cost perspective, what happens when there is a campaign of writing warning letters for communication that might be handled more effectively one to one verbally, allowing a fuller exploration of the motivation on both sides. How much profit potential do we all lose over the years when communication breaks down and we no longer iron things out in person, rather preferring letter writing to "show the brass" that we are "documenting observations"?
Why not just walk up and ask if the driver is aware of a potential risk? If it's that bad, why wait at all? Wouldn't that be the 'safest' thing to do?
All the letters do is refocus our attention to the communication void that is deepening ever wider. Sure the letters have a place when an employee fails to correct an issue, that's how they used to be used. But it seems to me we are skipping the most important part of the process.
Talking.

 

[hurricanegunner]

here's the problem. If you go out and have an injury or accident then the supervisor and manager will be blamed for your having either.

When a driver has an accident or injury our divison manager has to get on a conference call the next morning with safety and the district manager. At that point he has to review the drivers previous ride information, His previous safe work methods information and the drivers previous observations done by his supervisor.

If for instance the driver was not wearing a seat belt then the district manager would ask the question why did the drivers manager and supervisor not know that the driver was out there acting unsafely. Why didnt they not know it and not correct this unsafe behavior before the driver got hurt or had an accident.

So the intent is to get the supevisor out there observing and preventing injuries and accidents. How the intent gets transalated is another story.

cost and productivity could be argued a lot of different ways. If the sup can prevent one tier three accident through his training and observations then he can save the company about 48,000 dollars.
then factor in the cost and savings of keeping you the experienced driver in that seat rather then either splitting out the route and or training a new driver in the job.
There is a definitely a business benifit to keeping all of your injury and accident free.

Tie, I agree with you on one point. It is not management's fault if a driver rolls his ankle or hits a mailbox. Yet, they have to go through the conference call mess and get blamed. Therein lies the problem. The problem is systemic. It starts at the top and works it's way down. Drivers get blamed for things every day for things over which we have no control, and are not our fault. As long as the top tier management people care more about blame and punishment than about treating their people right, management and hourly, this won't likely change.

 

[MobileBA]

Beam me up Scotty.......now, I don't seem to be grounded in reality! It seems to me ctr mgr is the real deal.....

 

[soberups]

Beam me up Scotty.......now, I don't seem to be grounded in reality! It seems to me ctr mgr is the real deal...

I wouldnt go that far. I'm thinking that the warning letter quota is coming from way upstairs. Its not isolated to any one center or manager, it seems to be going on everywhere. As emotionally convenient as it might be for me to want to "shoot the messenger", I try to resist the temptation.

Dont blame the puppet. Blame the puppet master.

 

[trplnkl]

I'm sure the MFWIC of Safety is getting his head flattened daily by his superiors over vehicle accidents and personal injuries because of the obvious detriment to the company's profit margin. That makes sense. Then the conference calls commence and the treats of rolling heads are issued till it finally reaches the center manager. The center manager only has the tools to try an effective improvement in this costly matter that his leaders give him. Unfortunately, those tools are inefficient for the task at hand, but the center manager isn't given much of a choice.
As Sober said...blame the puppet master.

 

[trplnkl]

I can see that side of the coin so far as a primarily cost saving strategy, but your scenario assumes a worst case scenario (tier III) and we can not tell if the behavior was aggregious, only that there was an alleged behavior. I would ask if you are aware, from a cost perspective, what happens when there is a campaign of writing warning letters for communication that might be handled more effectively one to one verbally, allowing a fuller exploration of the motivation on both sides. How much profit potential do we all lose over the years when communication breaks down and we no longer iron things out in person, rather preferring letter writing to "show the brass" that we are "documenting observations"?
Why not just walk up and ask if the driver is aware of a potential risk? If it's that bad, why wait at all? Wouldn't that be the 'safest' thing to do?
All the letters do is refocus our attention to the communication void that is deepening ever wider. Sure the letters have a place when an employee fails to correct an issue, that's how they used to be used. But it seems to me we are skipping the most important part of the process.
Talking.

+10

 

[tieguy]

I can honestly say I have never had a supervisor do anything or say anything that has prevented injuries or accidents in my center. .

You've never had a supervisor give you any safety training whatsoever either on the road or in the office?

The old tieguy would have ripped you up for such a stupid comment and then gotten dog packed by the those who felt sorry for you.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Safety is a hot topic here in Upstate NY. We had four backing accidents on the same day and two Tier III accidents within the same week in the district so, needless to say, driving safety has been the PCM topic daily since then.

 

[tieguy]

Agreed.

And there are a lot of things we could be doing to reduce accidents and injuries....but cherry-picking a bunch of bulls%$t warning letters in order to meet a quota isnt one of them.

I compared this behavior in an anology to the cop who sits at the bottom of a hill all day with a bag of donuts and a radar gun, writing tickets for doing 26 in a 25.

Is he really making things safer? Or do his actions...though technically legal....wind up endangering lives by diverting his attention away from real issues as well as creating a complete lack of respect for the law that he is supposedly upholding?

How are we as employees supposed to take safety seriously when we see our management wasting huge amounts of time and resources on such drivel while real safety issues (unfair time allowances, excessive dispatch, unsafe equipment etc.) are completely ignored?

I sat thru two meetings concerning this warning letter. They were 1/2 an hour each. I was represented by a steward. That totals two hours of driver time at the overtime rate, plus whatever we paid the center manager to drive out on my route in her car to spy on me. There will be more meetings, over the grievance I will be filing for over supervision. Our shareholders have already pissed away several hundred dollars on this deal. Was it really worth it?

You made a business decision that my life wasnt worth the $50 it would have cost to put a 3 pt seat belt in your cars. You made a business decision that the health of my wrists, shoulders and arms wasnt worth the $300 it would have cost to put power steering in your cars. To then turn around and spew out warning letters to everyone who breathes in order to create a "culture of safety" is, quite frankly, hypocritical.

I thought you might take me on a safety rant with this one.

its real simple all of the analysis by any safety source you select will show that individual behaviors is the single biggest cause of injuries and accidents.

UPS believes you can control your behaviors you may disagree and argue that you are a walking victim of circumstances.

UPS taught you how to use the 10 and 2 position to control the vehicle. Proper control of the vehicle can prevent injuries and accidents.

you chose to ignore this training and to do your own thing because you believe you understand this part of the job better then UPS.

UPS disagreed with your assessment and gave you a warning letter for not performing the methods as trained.

The warning letter is bull**** because if you did not decide you were so much smarter then ups then ups would not have to be out there observing you ignoring their training and giving out warning letters.

Your example is exactly why we have to waste our time spying on you. Because you think you know so much more then a company who used a 100 years of experience to develop methods that will keep you safe.

The bull**** lies with you. Do the job by the methods and waste managements time watching you.

 

[Bubblehead]

You've never had a supervisor give you any safety training whatsoever either on the road or in the office?

That's not what he wrote.
He states that he has never had a supervisor do or say anything that has prevented injuries or accidents in his center.
I'm sure the the rhetoric flys all day everyday.
To the point that the squelch is turned up to the point that most hear none of it.

 

[soberups]

[UPS believes you can control your behaviors you may disagree and argue that you are a walking victim of circumstances

I dont consider myself a "victim of circumstances" in regards to injuries; I have 23 years without a lost time injury and I am coming up in 12 years of safe driving. That equates to about 3 million pieces handled, 30-40 million pounds lifted, 650,000 stops done and half a million miles driven.

Is there room for me to improve? Yes. Are there things I can still learn? Yes. Will cherry-picking for easy warning letters to meet a quota help me to impove and learn? No.

 

[soberups]

[UPS taught you how to use the 10 and 2 position to control the vehicle. Proper control of the vehicle can prevent injuries and accidents.

you chose to ignore this training and to do your own thing because you believe you understand this part of the job better then UPS.

UPS disagreed with your assessment and gave you a warning letter for not performing the methods as trained

I was taught to keep my hands at 10 and 2 while driving down the road. The intent of the rule is to maintain control of the vehicle in the event of a blowout or sudden emergency maneuver.

The observation that resulted in my warning letter was done in the parking lot of a Taco Bell while I was pulling out of a parking spot.

The ten and two "push pull" method of steering was written specifically to shield the company from liability for carpal-tunnel and other injuries that resulted from its business decision to delete power steering from its vehicles. The method simply shifts the responsibility for these injuries back onto the employee and relieves the company of any responsibility for solving the underlying problem.

The car I was in had power steering. There is no rational basis for using the push-pull method in a power-steering vehicle when turning the wheel 5 complete revolutions from one side to the other in order to maneuver out of a parking space. In the real word, nobody drives this way.

UPS is well aware of this fact but they cannot admit it; to do so would be to acknowledge that there is a difference between power and non-power steering vehicles in terms of injury risk, which would then require the company to spend $$ on fixing the unsafe equipment.

 

[soberups]

[UPS disagreed with your assessment and gave you a warning letter for not performing the methods as trained.

Incorrect.

UPS gave me a warning letter...because we are in the middle of a "safetyblitz 2010" campaign, and there are a bunch of suits from Corporate wandering around the building getting everybody's panties in a knot. Our local management is scared for their jobs and they want to look busy and productive in order to placate these suits, and the easiest way to do that is to fill a quota of warning letters.

When my center manager left the building that day to come out and observe me....it was already a foregone conclusion that I would be receiving a warning letter. The outcome was never in doubt. It wasnt a question of "if", only a question of "when".

 

[Re-Raise]

You've never had a supervisor give you any safety training whatsoever either on the road or in the office?

The old tieguy would have ripped you up for such a stupid comment and then gotten dog packed by the those who felt sorry for you.

I didn't stutter. Didn't you have a heart attack or something before peak this year?. Maybe you should have listened to UPS and all their advice on healthy living.

You know all they have to do is say it in a PCM to make it all happen. You guys be safe out there we had to cut 2 routes to get our stops per car up. I say eliminate the supervisors hiding behind trees and give us more drivers to do the real job.

Oh yeah I almost forgot the guy that trained me 25 years ago was fired that same year for sexual harassment after a 'relationship' with the night clerk at our building. I don't remember everything he told me.

 

[tieguy]

You've never had a supervisor give you any safety training whatsoever either on the road or in the office?

That's not what he wrote.
He states that he has never had a supervisor do or say anything that has prevented injuries or accidents in his center.
I'm sure the the rhetoric flys all day everyday.
To the point that the squelch is turned up to the point that most hear none of it.

Its a simple answer that you obviously could not understand. If the guy has ever had any safety training ever in his career at ups then has had training that he can and probably has used to prevent injuries and accidents. I thank you for taking his idiotic rant and running with it.

 

[Re-Raise]

I dont consider myself a "victim of circumstances" in regards to injuries; I have 23 years without a lost time injury and I am coming up in 12 years of safe driving. That equates to about 3 million pieces handled, 30-40 million pounds lifted, 650,000 stops done and half a million miles driven.

Nice job Sober. You are a valuable asset in a company that I own a good deal of stock in and I appreciate your efforts to be safe.

As you can tell I am not in management or I would have choked on that compliment.

 

[tieguy]

I didn't stutter. Didn't you have a heart attack or something before peak this year?. Maybe you should have listened to UPS and all their advice on healthy living.

You know all they have to do is say it in a PCM to make it all happen. You guys be safe out there we had to cut 2 routes to get our stops per car up. I say eliminate the supervisors hiding behind trees and give us more drivers to do the real job.

Oh yeah I almost forgot the guy that trained me 25 years ago was fired that same year for sexual harassment after a 'relationship' with the night clerk at our building. I don't remember everything he told me.

No I did not have a heart attack. you apparently pay attention here as well as you do at work.

So now you admit that you did and have had safety training during your time at UPS?