Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by Integrity, Dec 31, 2009.
How was the CHSP Hourly Co-Chair selected for your safety committee?
I don't know if we have that in Feeders....
We have an ERI committee and a safety committee. Safety was selected by the regular attendees of the safety meeting. ERI was selected for their ass kissing ability by management.
why is it that when ever i read one of your posts, i feel like i have been slimed?
what a fraud
see, if you really knew at all what you were talking about, you would know that under the contract, the co chairs for the employees are to be selected by the union and the company. spelled out very clearly in the contract, at least here.
that is why in our center, at least one employee cochair is a steward. that way, employee rights are not violated, and the company does not have carte blanch abusing the program.
so for those that said that management chooses, they need to get with the local union to get that changed. or on the other hand, what appears to be a selection by the company is actually a joint choice by both the union and the company.
Thanks for your excellent contribution to this discussion thread. My comments below:
I am very sorry you feel that way. It is not my intention.
I am aware of the language in Section 20.4 of the CBA. I know for a fact that many UPSers, including up to Region Level Managers are unaware that Safety and Health Committees are part of the National Master Agreement.The intent of my question is to get a feeling for this. I should have placed an " I don't know" as a possible answer to the poll. I am trying to correct this.
I strongly agree with this. I think this is a model that should be followed everywhere.
A joint choice is a violation. The pre-approved(approved by the Local union not management) union members of the committee are to select Union co-chair.
At first CHSP was all mgmnt kiss asses, but a few new guys that read thier contract pushed the issue, and now we vote or "argue about till a non mgmnt puke gets in, so have a couple of advocate drivers to push yourself into the committee
At our CHSP meeting...I don't recall management being too much of the hand raising in aye of nominating the co-chair...it was more of an hourly thing seemed like...but I'm sort of new to it, so I really don't know how it all works just yet....
first, let me apologize to cache, as it has been brought to my attention that the post above did not contain any information as to who i was commenting to. it was not cache, but i. very sorry for any confusion.
the reason you leave that slimy residue is that im not sure if we are dealing with an earth worm, snake, or something else that has yet to be classified.
one thing that is clear is that you have a very lopsided mannerism with which you post. you are pretty much clueless, but yet you offer all the answers to questions you dont understand?
personally, i still believe that you are a bot, one that works off artificial intelligence, and they are still working out your bugs............
UPS policy has always been that the "Safety Committee" will not discuss or implement any changes to policies, procedures or equipment.
The only purpose of the "Safety Committee"...is to comply with OSHA requirements and to make sure that the company passes its Keter audits.
My opinion is that bona fide safety issues need to be resolved directly through the grievance procedure rather than wasting time and effort with sham "safety committees" that will do nothing but discuss the problems endlessly without ever taking direct action to actually solve them.
Perfect example; our building has 15 tp60 pup trailers. They were made without grab rails, making it impossible to maintain 3 pts of contact while entering or exiting. It was an oversight, that could have been corrected for pennies by stripping the grab rails off of ADA cars that were about to be crushed, and installing them on the trailers with 4 screws and a cordless drill.
It took 6 years for this solution to finally be resolved, agreed upon, and actually implemented on all of our trailers by our "safety committee".
I didnt wait 6 years. I was able to talk one of the mechanics into doing it for me after I fell on my ass one time stepping out of my trailer. It took him less than 5 minutes to install.
At some point, it becomes necessary to quit trying to talk a problem to death. At some point, you have to just do something about it.
Thanks for your contribution to this discussion thread. I have heard many long time UPSer's share the same types of feelings and opinions about the Employee Health and Safety Committees. I can definitely see why this conclusion is made about them. It is a shame.
Care must be taken not to view failures and improper practices at the local, district and region levels of management to be viewed as UPS Policy. UPS Policy regarding safety can be found in the current UPS Policy Book, The UPS Code Of Business Conduct and the Committee Member Handbook. What is seen at these levels is failure of management upholding policy and not actually policy. Again, what a shame.
The National Master Agreement really outlines the practices that hourly employees are obligated to follow. Nothing more and nothing less should really be added or taken away to their participation in the collectively bargained for Safety Committees. (Article 18 sec 20.4)
shame on you for letting a serious safety issue drag on that long.
in our meetings, we identified the problem, gave it a rating as to the possibility of injury and the severity.
then depending on the classification rating, we either took care of the problem ourselves or brought it to managements attention for resolution. some things we put a time deadline on if the issue rated it as being a hazard that was an eminent threat to an employee.
for instance, during one of the building audits, we found that 9 of 11 fans that blow air into the trailer had cords on them with bare wires. all fans were locked out at that time, and the electrician was called to repair the wires within an hour after it was brought to their attention.
management knew that if we set a deadline for the issue to be resolved, and that deadline passed without corrective action, a grievance would be filed at that time.
this serves several purposes.
during an audit, when keter would go through the building, there is nothing like a list of grievances to show how serious management is about safety issues, and the ability of the safety committee to get thing done in a timely manner. and for sure, ups does not want osha getting called in on a situation where an employee was injured, and there is a paper trail identifying the issue, and several grievances filed by the committee on the company dragging its feet fixing the issue.
that is why it is imperative that the union stewards are involved with the committee. holding the company responsible, that is what the committee is charged to do. anything less, and the committee is a sham.
Hourly co-chair employee relations, safety committee are all company bum kissers in our hub. I am not sure the selection process to be honest, however I highly doubt it was "voted" or union-involved. Hand picked by mgmt seems right.
The deep-end one in our building did not lift one package in either November or December. They walked around with a clipboard and pen for 2 months hassling other hourlies. Of course , this is one of the largest hubs in the U.S. and UPS pretty much gets away with whatever they want, and so do their select hourlies.
You seem to have a real handle on seeking to do the right thing in this area. UPS would be a better place for a lot of employees if more hourly members of the safety committees sought to follow your lead. I agree strongly with your position that the union stewards need to be involved in these committees.
I don't want to change the topic of the discussion thread but I have a side question for you:
How many hourly safety committee members get to accompany the keter auditors on their facility inspection tours?
Now that really is an interesting question. I have never heard of safety committee members following the Keter auditors. It's a great idea, but never saw it here.
My center mgr always does that. He gets to smoke a cigar while they walk the bldg
Dear over9five and TheDick(I hope you're not one!),
Please check the the National Master Agreement Art. 18, Sec 20.4 committee function #4.
The way I see it, the Keter Audit Inspections meet the criteria for this to be universally applied, and technically it is a violation not to allow an agreed upon # of hourly safety committee members to accompany the Keter people around.
Come to think of it, I have never seen a Keter person that is not accompanied by a management person it would only seem correct to have hourly representatives there also. I believe that this equal representation is the foundational intent of this part of the agreement that was made as to the function of Safety Committees.
Where I am at, the Safety Co-Chair is anybody who will volunteer for it. Ours recently quit, and the management team isn't too happy about it. In a recent PCM, we were told that if we were in an accident, then we would automatically become a member of the Safety Committee. While I think that safety is important, the committee really doesn't seem to make any real changes, especially if the company will have to spend any money.
Dannyboy you make good points. I do not see much of any safety involvement of the union in our hub, which ties into what you are saying and also the work enviorment we have (plus the ineptitude of the safety committee altogether)
To all: For example, one person gets paid 1/2 hour as a co-chair to type up and print out NYE drinking and driving flyers to hand out when employees walk through the door.
Is that not stealing company time; telling us how to live our lives outside of work? Just my opinion, that is NOT the companies responsibility and certainly not worthwhile time used considering all the unsafe activities and circumstances that go on INSIDE of work that need to be addressed.
we do that here as well. the driver that has the accident has his start time changed for the wednesdays that we meet early. at first, there was a lot of groaning and bitching about that move, but we found out that it payed large dividends. many of the drivers that were forced into attending have become much better drivers, are actually still part of the committee long past what was required, and several have made important suggestions and contributions to the overall safety program.
so while it sounds like a punishment up front, if handled properly, it can be a great learning tool.
really, gets to smoke a cigar while walking the building??? how does he manage to do that considering that all ups buildings are smoke free zones, unless you are in a designated smoking zone???? i would really like to know.
what they did in our center was to train the safety committee members to do the audit once a month. keter came in and our center made the commitment to have the safety cochairs on each sort and shift, including the feeder department and mechanics, to do the monthly audit without management oversight.
on the days where we have a keter audit, there are usually two hour cochairs that work with them during the two days they are here. one time there were 6 hourly walking the building with keter. but usually at least two or three.
one interesting side bar, the frayed and bare wires were discovered by an hourly safety committee member doing the regular monthly audit the month following a keter building audit. at the time keter was at the building, the wires had already been damaged and frayed, but no one caught it.
in thinking about the unloaders that reach up and adjust the fans during the sort, and how sweaty they are, it is a miracle that no one was killed. it was that serious of an issue. one of the fans actually quit working because one of the wires had completely been chewed in half. none of the supply wires were protected by flexible conduit, which is a code violation, but no one had "discovered" that until the hourly caught the problem.
one last thing. all our shop stewards were on the safety committee. while area observations are done, none has ever resulted in any disciplinary action being taken. now, when a sup is by themselves and watching the driver, that is another story.
on area observations here are used as a behavior modification tool. identify problems, and offer solutions. that is what the safety committee is supposed to be.
for those of you that dont, you get what you allow. of course it is more pleasant a task when you have a management team that is supporting and sharing leadership roles instead of total domination of the system. but that is where the grievance system kicks in.
sorry to be so long winded.
there are a couple of viewpoints in this statement. yes, it is your personal life, you can do as you wish. and the vast majority of the drivers are mature enough to understand how a dui will affect their job and lives. not so much so with the part timers.
the drivers here are a pretty close nit group. some closer, some not so close. many have relationships that carry far past working together. and it is in that spirit of mentoring each other, and having each others back, that we know all we have to do is call another driver for a ride home.
after a fight to near death with uncle jack, i have been a permanent designated driver, as anything with alcohol has no interest for me.
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