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Company and teamsters have a tenative agreement taking over Central States ?
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 229764" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Thanks Red. You are correct that there are no firm details as of yet. We have no idea what a UPS/IBT plan would look like nor what UPS would require to get there. It's way to early to say you'd be for or against it. </p><p> </p><p>As for you other folks suffering on raises, etc. to help us I really do appreciate that and I hope that is not the case. We've in some sense done to this ourselves and to make other sacrifice IMO is just dead wrong. However reality as it is, you are likely right in what you say and as a CSer I'm sorry I was a party to put you in that position. </p><p> </p><p>As to Saw's post about the BA's comments. I've spoken several times with my BA about the current contract situation and we've exchanged some open and honest comments. Much of what I've said here over the last several years were among those comments. However, I also respect the fact that my BA is not in an official capacity regarding the contract and that the IBT for better or worse has maintained a very controlled position on what is released about the contract. Opinions are everywhere and so are rumors. With that, what my BA and I talked about will remain a private matter just as I've talked with UPS management folks, even some corp. level folks on this issue and that to shall remain private. I'm not suggesting I know any more than anyone else and I may even know less, I'll stipulate to that possibility of being fact but I'll also try not to add to the rumormill that makes this situation even tougher than it is. There is way to much on the line and at stake for that and thus the reason I've not been active in these numerous posts of this issue.</p><p> </p><p>Saw, that BA may have made those comments in a public way and shame on him if he did so but I also think it was wrong to post them here, whether they are true or not. It only fuels a rumormill that in the end may or may not be true. And just because UPS proposes something doesn't mean the end product will look like that. </p><p> </p><p>Did you ever consider what those UPSers with 20 plus years will think of your BA's suggested scenario of the UPS proposal? One of the biggest reasons APWA can't get any sealegs with it's pension idea especially among older UPSers is the very 2 pension check system your BA described. With 26 years myself, how do I really benefit killing one system to go into another when in the longrun, the system I'm voting to kill will supply me my largest form of income in retirement? Oh sure, CS is dying right? Well the odds sure point to that trouble but it's not an established certainty either. There is a chance, albeit slim, things could work out but going APWA is a dead certain that CS will die the nuclear death so many fear and again, no mechanism on the part of APWA to umbrella in folks like me so that I at least get the same amount as I would have gotten prior to the 2004' cuts. You do that,come up and solve that issue with absolute uncertainty and the APWA ranks in the CS areas will explode.</p><p> </p><p>There no argument UPS wants out of CS and I appreciate their position on that. They see another cost effective way to do the same thing but on a cheaper scale. If someone comes to you and sez I'll give you the exact same level of insurance coverage you have now but for 30% less than you are paying, would you take it? All things being equal I doubt there's a person here who wouldn't take that deal. At the least, you'd hear it out. Let's wait and hear UPS out. UPS really wants this and they will need every vote they can get to make this happen and they also know one of the stumbling blocks for the APWA was the double pension checks for the folks especially will more years like myself. What are the odds that people with 20 plus years will vote year for a plan that sez your majority check will come from a plan that's dying and then we'll give you a much smaller supplemental check to account for these remaining years? </p><p> </p><p>UPS may indeed be that stupid and like their move in 97' of waiting till the last day to spring their plan, they may again underestimate the UPS union member. I've voted no before on contracts and have no fear of voting no again and I'm sure I'm not alone in that process. Also, my guess is that this proposal could be a national issue and not a regional supplemement alone so I've also got folks like 705Red and others I can count on to help put on the pressure to get something good done and if we say no, I'd bet they'd stand with us. </p><p> </p><p>I also have to ask this about you BA. Is his interest in the wellbeing of the UPS union member or is he looking out for himself and union power? Depending on the answer may determine if his remarks were based on truth or manipulative lies!</p><p> </p><p>Just something to think about.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 229764, member: 2189"] Thanks Red. You are correct that there are no firm details as of yet. We have no idea what a UPS/IBT plan would look like nor what UPS would require to get there. It's way to early to say you'd be for or against it. As for you other folks suffering on raises, etc. to help us I really do appreciate that and I hope that is not the case. We've in some sense done to this ourselves and to make other sacrifice IMO is just dead wrong. However reality as it is, you are likely right in what you say and as a CSer I'm sorry I was a party to put you in that position. As to Saw's post about the BA's comments. I've spoken several times with my BA about the current contract situation and we've exchanged some open and honest comments. Much of what I've said here over the last several years were among those comments. However, I also respect the fact that my BA is not in an official capacity regarding the contract and that the IBT for better or worse has maintained a very controlled position on what is released about the contract. Opinions are everywhere and so are rumors. With that, what my BA and I talked about will remain a private matter just as I've talked with UPS management folks, even some corp. level folks on this issue and that to shall remain private. I'm not suggesting I know any more than anyone else and I may even know less, I'll stipulate to that possibility of being fact but I'll also try not to add to the rumormill that makes this situation even tougher than it is. There is way to much on the line and at stake for that and thus the reason I've not been active in these numerous posts of this issue. Saw, that BA may have made those comments in a public way and shame on him if he did so but I also think it was wrong to post them here, whether they are true or not. It only fuels a rumormill that in the end may or may not be true. And just because UPS proposes something doesn't mean the end product will look like that. Did you ever consider what those UPSers with 20 plus years will think of your BA's suggested scenario of the UPS proposal? One of the biggest reasons APWA can't get any sealegs with it's pension idea especially among older UPSers is the very 2 pension check system your BA described. With 26 years myself, how do I really benefit killing one system to go into another when in the longrun, the system I'm voting to kill will supply me my largest form of income in retirement? Oh sure, CS is dying right? Well the odds sure point to that trouble but it's not an established certainty either. There is a chance, albeit slim, things could work out but going APWA is a dead certain that CS will die the nuclear death so many fear and again, no mechanism on the part of APWA to umbrella in folks like me so that I at least get the same amount as I would have gotten prior to the 2004' cuts. You do that,come up and solve that issue with absolute uncertainty and the APWA ranks in the CS areas will explode. There no argument UPS wants out of CS and I appreciate their position on that. They see another cost effective way to do the same thing but on a cheaper scale. If someone comes to you and sez I'll give you the exact same level of insurance coverage you have now but for 30% less than you are paying, would you take it? All things being equal I doubt there's a person here who wouldn't take that deal. At the least, you'd hear it out. Let's wait and hear UPS out. UPS really wants this and they will need every vote they can get to make this happen and they also know one of the stumbling blocks for the APWA was the double pension checks for the folks especially will more years like myself. What are the odds that people with 20 plus years will vote year for a plan that sez your majority check will come from a plan that's dying and then we'll give you a much smaller supplemental check to account for these remaining years? UPS may indeed be that stupid and like their move in 97' of waiting till the last day to spring their plan, they may again underestimate the UPS union member. I've voted no before on contracts and have no fear of voting no again and I'm sure I'm not alone in that process. Also, my guess is that this proposal could be a national issue and not a regional supplemement alone so I've also got folks like 705Red and others I can count on to help put on the pressure to get something good done and if we say no, I'd bet they'd stand with us. I also have to ask this about you BA. Is his interest in the wellbeing of the UPS union member or is he looking out for himself and union power? Depending on the answer may determine if his remarks were based on truth or manipulative lies! Just something to think about. [/QUOTE]
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