Contract talks

ftballer67

Well-Known Member
I mean really? You seriously expect guys/gals who get $8.50 p/hr and pay taxes and dues out of that to show up at a union hall meeting? Seriously? Come on. Let's get real here. The reason many part-timers don't give a f__k is because the union doesn't give a f__k about them. $8.50 per hour to load trucks in 0 degrees or 100 degrees. Be happy if they show up 3 or 4 days a week to load the trucks.
Everyone keeps talking about how there are great benefits at UPS, o.k., there are but..... McDonalds offers low cost benefits and free food. Target and Walmart also offer low cost benefits. Oh yeah, climate controlled environments too. What about Starbucks? Good pay and benefits. Home Depot, Menards, Lowes, etc.etc.... On and on we could go with how many other companies are a better place to work for a part-time job. I would never send my kids to work at UPS and risk having a permanent back or neck injury for the chump change they are offering. I would be sending them to any of the companies above. They can get their work out safely in a gym or at home. Not loading medicine balls and TV's for freakin minimum wage. This company is out of control with what it expects from these new hires and newer low seniority employees. We need to fight for $10 p/hr starting pay for these kids/semi retirees/housewives/second jobbers. They are busting ass in bad working conditions. Not stocking shelfs in a climate controlled environment listening to store music. JMHO.

That's just it, and I have been to a couple of Union meetings at Local 243 with a dozen or so part timers. Even though the Local is an hour from where I live, I went and covinced others to come as well. It was painfully obvious from the top down the higher ups at the Local could really care less about us. We were barely given a platform, and the majority of the issues discussed were involving... surprise surprise feeder drivers then full time pkg drivers, even though at one of the meetings the part timers were about 30 percent of the audience there.
 

hembone

Well-Known Member
I mean really? You seriously expect guys/gals who get $8.50 p/hr and pay taxes and dues out of that to show up at a union hall meeting? Seriously? Come on. Let's get real here. The reason many part-timers don't give a f__k is because the union doesn't give a f__k about them. $8.50 per hour to load trucks in 0 degrees or 100 degrees. Be happy if they show up 3 or 4 days a week to load the trucks.
Everyone keeps talking about how there are great benefits at UPS, o.k., there are but..... McDonalds offers low cost benefits and free food. Target and Walmart also offer low cost benefits. Oh yeah, climate controlled environments too. What about Starbucks? Good pay and benefits. Home Depot, Menards, Lowes, etc.etc.... On and on we could go with how many other companies are a better place to work for a part-time job. I would never send my kids to work at UPS and risk having a permanent back or neck injury for the chump change they are offering. I would be sending them to any of the companies above. They can get their work out safely in a gym or at home. Not loading medicine balls and TV's for freakin minimum wage. This company is out of control with what it expects from these new hires and newer low seniority employees. We need to fight for $10 p/hr starting pay for these kids/semi retirees/housewives/second jobbers. They are busting ass in bad working conditions. Not stocking shelfs in a climate controlled environment listening to store music. JMHO.
Bulls##t, don't make excuses for not attending union meetings. I agree the parttimers need a fair shake, but sometimes they're their own worse enemy.
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
Please read the news release on this site about the increase in UPS dividends and then tell me the people who deliver those profits don't deserve an increase in compensation, part-timers and full-timers.
 

John19841

Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone here is against giving raises to part timers, or raising the starting pay...Just saying that the ideaof taking the full timers raises away and giving them to the part timers is not the way to accomplish that.

On another note, the thought that there will be a mass exodus of part timers from the union is ridiculous.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Like it or not, when you take into consideration the bennies part timers get, their hourly wage is leaps and bounds ahead of other part time laborer jobs (including Mcdonald's Walmart and the like). I do agree that making part timers wait 18 months for full bennies is to much. You can't just look at the $'s per hour pay.

Perhaps a good solution would be to allow part timers to choose a higher wage or the bennies.

I do believe that they deserve more $$$'s, but being realistic, they are compensated well for the job that they do.
 
U

uber

Guest
5 years in and still making around $200 a week. You know how far $200 a week gets you these days?

I understand the UPS business model and why they feel they can screw long-time PT'ers. But, for a company that preaches integrity to the core, it sure lacks it.
 

HEFFERNAN

Huge Member
5 years in and still making around $200 a week. You know how far $200 a week gets you these days?

I understand the UPS business model and why they feel they can screw long-time PT'ers. But, for a company that preaches integrity to the core, it sure lacks it.

You forget that your family and kids are taken care of with your health benefits !!! You will never find another place to work 3.5 hours a day and get that !!!

Also, I hope you are not lazy and have a more lucrative part time job to go to after working your daily shift !
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Here are the facts as I know it:

1)We all took the job knowing what it pays, the hours and exactly what our wage increases will be.

2)During the life of the current contract Drivers will have gotten a 14% raise since the start of the contract.

3)During the life of the contract part timers hired at the beginning of the contract, will have gotten a 39.7% raise since the start of the contract. 25% MORE then drivers.

4)During the life of the contract part timers who were going into the contract making $15.00 and hour will still see a raise increase of 22% over the life of the contract. 8% MORE then drivers.

5) Other then a few exceptions of the part timers who have been with UPS for many many years...the Full time driver have gotten the smallest % increase over the life of the contract.

6) In 2006 (pre kingofchester UPS employment) I was self employed. I had to pay for insurance out of my pocket. I paid, back in 06, over $1,100.00 a month for health insurance. Blue cross, Blue shield. It had a higher co-pay then what we have. No dental. No vision insurance. But lets use the $1,100.00 number. By the time the bennies kick in for part timers they will have to be making at least $10.00 an hour working 3.5 hours a day, 5 days a week, 4.6 weeks a month comes to 80.5 hours. Take the $1,100.00 for the (sub par illustrated) insurance and divide that by 80.5 comes to $13.67 per hour. Add that to the minimum a part timer would be making at that point ($10.00) and you get $23.67 as a part time job. That is not including dental, vision, pension and so on. Not bad at all anyway you cut it.
 
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ftballer67

Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone here is against giving raises to part timers, or raising the starting pay...Just saying that the ideaof taking the full timers raises away and giving them to the part timers is not the way to accomplish that.

On another note, the thought that there will be a mass exodus of part timers from the union is ridiculous.

I believe you're out of touch then. I live in a closed shop state, and based on what the majority of my co workers have said they're ready to stop paying dues if given the chance through RTW. Maybe the situation in my building is unique but I doubt it.

Also if I had to guess the number of part time union members in RTW states is far lower than the others. Now if RTW picks up, extrapolate those numbers across the board and my guess is you will see a lot of current dues paying members decide to hold on to their money.
 

ftballer67

Well-Known Member
Here are the facts as I know it:

1)We all took the job knowing what it pays, the hours and exactly what our wage increases will be.

2)During the life of the current contract Drivers will have gotten a 14% raise since the start of the contract.

3)During the life of the contract part timers hired at the beginning of the contract, will have gotten a 39.7% raise since the start of the contract. 25% MORE then drivers.

4)During the life of the contract part timers who were going into the contract making $15.00 and hour will still see a raise increase of 22% over the life of the contract. 8% MORE then drivers.

5) Other then a few exceptions of the part timers who have been with UPS for many many years...the Full time driver have gotten the smallest % increase over the life of the contract.

6) In 2006 (pre kingofchester UPS employment) I was self employed. I had to pay for insurance out of my pocket. I paid, back in 06, over $1,100.00 a month for health insurance. Blue cross, Blue shield. It had a higher co-pay then what we have. No dental. No vision insurance. But lets use the $1,100.00 number. By the time the bennies kick in for part timers they will have to be making at least $10.00 an hour working 3.5 hours a day, 5 days a week, 4.6 weeks a month comes to 80.5 hours. Take the $1,100.00 for the (sub par illustrated) insurance and divide that by 80.5 comes to $13.67 per hour. Add that to the minimum a part timer would be making at that point ($10.00) and you get $23.67 as a part time job. That is not including dental, vision, pension and so on. Not bad at all anyway you cut it.

You can bend the statistics to make your point, but the percentages don't mean much when one work group is starting out at $28-30 and the other at $8-10 in a lot of cases. Also our pay is based on a 3 1/2 hr guarantee vs drivers who are guaranteed 8 but on average are working much more.

I'm not saying we have a bad deal compared to all other part time jobs, but compared to the full time pkg and feeder we do & when we're paying the majority of the dues with little to no opportunity to join the full time ranks even after a decade it gets to be frustrating.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
All due respect, I do not think I did any bending, just stating the facts. Percentages mean everything.

Why should part timers get a much larger percentage increase? Sounds a bit like Marxism. 20%-40% raise isn't good enough? When you started at UPS you must of been satisfied with the pay structure.

If you make 10 dollars a week or 10k a week.........20% is still a hell of a pay raise. Not many other jobs out there that come along with a pay raise like that.
 

ftballer67

Well-Known Member
All due respect, I do not think I did any bending, just stating the facts. Percentages mean everything.

Why should part timers get a much larger percentage increase? Sounds a bit like Marxism. 20%-40% raise isn't good enough? When you started at UPS you must of been satisfied with the pay structure.

If you make 10 dollars a week or 10k a week.........20% is still a hell of a pay raise. Not many other jobs out there that come along with a pay raise like that.

Well that percentage disparity in the raise doesn't mean too much when the full time driver is making over 200 percent more to start. 20 percent raise when your making minimum wage is a joke. The raises are the same whether full or part time, only reason the percentage is lower for full time is because they were actually making a decent wage to begin with, not exactly like we're getting a better deal, just that our starting wage is so crappy our meager raises are actually a more significant percentage than the full timers.

Also I just find it funny that when I see people defend the part time pay pkg it's always in relation to other part time jobs outside of UPS, so based on that we should be grateful. Well if that's the case why don't we cut the full timers pay $5 an hour because most truck drivers would be happy to make that pay and your benefit package based on what they currently make outside of UPS right? I don't believe that but it sounds no less ridiculous then comparing our pay scale to companies outside of UPS. Apples to apples.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Well. Well if that's the case why don't we cut the full timers pay $5 an hour because most truck drivers would be happy to make that pay and your benefit package based on what they currently make outside of UPS right? I don't believe that but it sounds no less ridiculous then comparing our pay scale to companies outside of UPS. Apples to apples.

I am not the one complaining. I knew what I was getting into when I decided to work at UPS.


I guess we can agree to disagree.
 

ftballer67

Well-Known Member
Believe me, I probably am in a similar tax bracket as you. My wife has done very well for herself in the medical profession, but your superiority complex is duly noted. I also have a second income.

But back to percentages. Do they matter? Sure, but not as much as you seem to believe. Like I said, give the part timers a decent starting wage (which we deserve) and the percentage disparity disappears. That's my point.
 
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kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
but your superiority complex is duely noted. I also have a second income.

Labeling someone does not strengthen your argument. Sorry to see that you had to go there. But I digress.....

You mentioned that your wife "has done very well for herself in the medical profession". How would she feel about forgoing pay raises and leveling out the pay scale so the janitor can make better money or the nurses aids that average 10-12 an hour? I am sure, if you were honest, would say No, she worked hard to get to where she is. She has made sacrifices to accomplish her achievements and salary. Most drivers have made the sacrifices to get what we get.
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
So percentages don't matter? Ok, then why don't you pay the same $ amount in taxes as I do? Or should we keep that at percentages?

We should pay the same dollar amount... But thats a completely different conversation altogether.

But seriously, you wont see a whole lot of full timers in RTW states opting out of the union, but the same cant be said for part-timers. I think it would be great for all the part-timers in these RTW states to band together and threaten to all opt out of the union unless the next contract corrects this wage imballance.
 
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