Contract talks

ftballer67

Well-Known Member
Labeling someone does not strengthen your argument. Sorry to see that you had to go there. But I digress.....

You mentioned that your wife "has done very well for herself in the medical profession". How would she feel about forgoing pay raises and leveling out the pay scale so the janitor can make better money or the nurses aids that average 10-12 an hour? I am sure, if you were honest, would say No, she worked hard to get to where she is. She has made sacrifices to accomplish her achievements and salary. Most drivers have made the sacrifices to get what we get.

That argument makes no sense. A janitor or nurse aid does not have the ability, education or certification to do what my wife does. At UPS we're all just moving boxes in one shape or form. I'm every bit capable to do a driving job, there are just no full time opportunities. Sacrifices? Really? Most full time drivers in my building did not wait even close to as long as we do these days. 50 percent less(since you love percentages), at the very worst, and with the current rate of promotions or lack there of that will only go up.

As far as labeling, what about your passive aggressive comment where you ASSumed you make more money and pay more taxes than me or my family. Yet you're talking about me labeling you. Interesting logic you have there.
 

ftballer67

Well-Known Member
Labeling someone does not strengthen your argument. Sorry to see that you had to go there. But I digress.....

You mentioned that your wife "has done very well for herself in the medical profession". How would she feel about forgoing pay raises and leveling out the pay scale so the janitor can make better money or the nurses aids that average 10-12 an hour? I am sure, if you were honest, would say No, she worked hard to get to where she is. She has made sacrifices to accomplish her achievements and salary. Most drivers have made the sacrifices to get what we get.

That argument makes no sense. A janitor or nurse aid does not have the ability, education or certification to do what my wife does. At UPS we're all just moving boxes in one shape or form. I'm every bit capable to do a driving job, there are just no full time opportunities. Sacrifices? Really? Most full time drivers in my building did not wait even close to as long as we do these days. 50 percent less(since you love percentages), at the very worst, and with the current rate of promotions or lack there of that will only go up.

As far as labeling, what about your passive aggressive comment where you assumed you make more money and pay more taxes than me or my family. Yet you're talking about me labeling you. Interesting logic you have there.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Why should the wage's be balanced? Driver deal with customers. Drivers deal with shippers. We have to explain why their box looks like a shredded pizza box. Drivers take on the responsibility of driving a truck threw towns and school zones. Drivers have to be "on" 100 percent of the time to lesson the risk of killing an innocent bystander that may be fetching a ball under a several ton vehicle. Navigating living obstacles in a several ton truck. We have to maintain a clean life style in order to perform our job and lesson the risk to the public. Drivers have to be certified by the state. I could go on and on. I can't count the amount of times I have seen or smelled pre loaders after partaking in smoking weed in the parking lot. Drivers have to account for C.O.D's. Drivers have to be sure to have Air's delivered to customers in the time frame promised by UPS. Drivers have the responsibility to inspect the vehicle to be sure there are no hazards. Drivers can't, or I should say shouldn't be partying hours before punching in to be as close to 100%. Driver have uniforms to clean and maintain. Driver are required to maintain a certain appearance like shaving and hair cuts. A good portion of my free time is dictated by my job. When i was part time, my free time was not dictated by UPS. I could go on and on. I was a part timer. it sucks. Know doubt. But to level the pay scale is down right absurd.

On top of all that....drivers went threw the ranks, did your jobs........so that they can make what they do!
 
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ftballer67

Well-Known Member
That argument makes no sense. A janitor or nurse aid does not have the ability, education or certification to do what my wife does. At UPS we're all just moving boxes in one shape or form. I'm every bit capable to do a driving job, there are just no full time opportunities. Sacrifices? Really? Most full time drivers in my building did not wait even close to as long as we do these days. 50 percent less(since you love percentages), at the very worst, and with the current rate of promotions or lack there of that will only go up.

As far as labeling, what about your passive aggressive comment where you assumed you make more money and pay more taxes than me or my family. Yet you're talking about me labeling you. Interesting logic you have there.
 

John19841

Well-Known Member
Just curious, what city? That is some high cost of living. New York, Boston?

I live far from a major city, but 200K will get you about the same here, except I have to add that it would be in a not so nice part of town.

Starter houses here go for $275K and up. A decent 1500-2000 sq foot home in good condition with a nice yard would start in the mid 300k's. You can't touch new construction for under $400k.

For comparison, on a driver salary you'd be maxing out your mortgage limit around $280k. That's with some decent overtime
 

John19841

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to quote anything here. There's plenty of back in forth, and to think anyone is going to change another's opinion or viewpoint is futile.

To the part timers saying that the pay structure is not fair and their is no opportunity to join the full time ranks, I offer you this:

If the starting wage at UPS was $20/hr for part time, You would of never gotten the job in the first place. The line at the door just to apply would be hundreds long.
You understand why, correct? Because it is well above market for a part time job. Wouldn't it be nice to get a sub 20 hr/week job with no education, training etc, that paid you the same every week as a similar job would pay for a 40 hour work week.

I hear if drivers keep getting raises, UPS will go under, seek different transportation options, lay off, etc, etc, etc. Look at what you're saying. We all know the part timers vastly outnumber the full timers. If that part timers got such significant raises, than why the hell wouldn't it have the same effect?

You want everything to be equal, then let's be equal.

It's nice to WANT a part time job that provides a pension, benefits, and a big paycheck, but it isn't realistic today. You've picked the wrong battle here. The battle you should be partaking in is getting UPS to create more full time jobs. There is plenty of room to do it with combining shifts.... That is if you actually want to be working full time...
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
2898.jpg

290k 1200 sq' home on less 1/2 acre. built 1950.



2898.jpg

300k 1200 sq' home on .07 acres...(thats 3000 sq' PROPERTY!!) AND ITS A TWIN BUILT IN 1925.....YOU GET THE HOUSE ON LEFT WITH PORCH. YOUR NEIGHBOR IS THE DOOR TO THE RIGHT.
2898.jpg
2898.jpg
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
Why should the wage's be balanced? Driver deal with customers. Drivers deal with shippers. We have to explain why their box looks like a shredded pizza box. Drivers take on the responsibility of driving a truck threw towns and school zones. Drivers have to be "on" 100 percent of the time to lesson the risk of killing an innocent bystander that may be fetching a ball under a several ton vehicle. Navigating living obstacles in a several ton truck. We have to maintain a clean life style in order to perform our job and lesson the risk to the public. Drivers have to be certified by the state. I could go on and on. I can't count the amount of times I have seen or smelled pre loaders after partaking in smoking weed in the parking lot. Drivers have to account for C.O.D's. Drivers have to be sure to have Air's delivered to customers in the time frame promised by UPS. Drivers have the responsibility to inspect the vehicle to be sure there are no hazards. Drivers can't, or I should say shouldn't be partying hours before punching in to be as close to 100%. Driver have uniforms to clean and maintain. Driver are required to maintain a certain appearance like shaving and hair cuts. A good portion of my free time is dictated by my job. When i was part time, my free time was not dictated by UPS. I could go on and on. I was a part timer. it sucks. Know doubt. But to level the pay scale is down right absurd.

On top of all that....drivers went threw the ranks, did your jobs........so that they can make what they do!

Lol.. Nice list, but I wasnt referring to drivers, im referring to full-time combo workers who do the exact same thing us part-timers do.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Nevermind.

You win.

I should take a pay cut or no raise so that the part timers can make more then they do.

I will say, if I give up raises they better hold the loaders more accountable for their load quality then they do now.

1 loader missloading 1 package per car on a dump can cost the company 100 dollars or more. That could go a looonnnnggg way towards pay raises.
 
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Packmule

Well-Known Member
And again I say, throw out the whole 9.5 grievevance proceedure and replace it with a stairstep overtime wage scale: 8 hrs to 9.5, time and a half. 9.5 to10.5, double time. 10.5 and up, tripple time. Only then will the shell game end and reckless dispatching be curtailed.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
And again I say, throw out the whole 9.5 grievevance proceedure and replace it with a stairstep overtime wage scale: 8 hrs to 9.5, time and a half. 9.5 to10.5, double time. 10.5 and up, tripple time. Only then will the shell game end and reckless dispatching be curtailed.

Will it....how many times do you see UPS step over a dollar to pick up a penny?? I agree with you, but I wouldnt be surprised to see UPS still send us out with 11 hours of work....... but the reward would be a bigger pay day?!
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
If part timers don't like the deal they are getting why quit paying dues? How bout u vote no and let your voice be heard. Also don't make it sound as if they ask you to drive and day 1 you make 30+ an hour. First you have to make it (a lot of people don't). Then you start around $16 an hour and wait 3 years to make full scale. I actually made less when I started driving then I had with my 2 jobs before.
 

Southwestern

Well-Known Member
Why do you think there is such a high turnover rate at ups at the part time level? People don't want to put their time in to get to full time.


Seriously? Because it's oh-so-easy to get up in the middle of the night (or work late into the evening) for $8.50/hour while being harassed for production and getting micromanaged from multiple supervisors/managers -- who will try to chase you off the clock ASAP, often in less than three hours. You'll take home an average of $125, sans those weeks the Teamsters takes its cut. And that's when you work, since your initial employment will be on call. It's not that most people aren't willing to put in the time it'll take to go full-time... it's just that most people have families they need to provide for, and can't wait 10+ years.

As your wife has the ability and education........all that can be had by paying due's (tuition) and going threw the paces to get to an end. Just as most driver have done. paid their dues by working part time and waiting for their shot at driving.


Seriously? You think you can earn an education just by "paying due's?" So THAT'S why the college drop out rate is so high. It isn't because the work is challenging and requires some degree of thought & intellect... it's because people aren't willing to pay their dues! I mean, come on, learning how to use the DIAD is more difficult than taking a Calculus course!!

I have done several jobs on the inside as a part timer. I have also been driving for 3 years and can tell you that it is nothing like what anyone thinks. Far as I am concerned, part timers are paid accordingly for what they do. I was there and trust me, I was happy making 9.50 and hour, full bennies, pension and prospect of going full time.

I Preloaded for over a decade before going full-time. While I agree driving is a more challenging position, it's certainly not $20/hour more challenging. UPS drivers are seriously overcompensated; these jobs aren't worth $70K a year PLUS full pension PLUS full health benefits that make most blush. Do you know why most drivers wind up in the crapper when they lose their job? It's because they have no marketable skill.
 

Southwestern

Well-Known Member
I will say, if I give up raises they better hold the loaders more accountable for their load quality then they do now.

How much more do you think we should make? We're competing with FedEx Ground drivers making less than a third of our total compensation. UPS management has done a brilliant job in keeping our productivity high in order to remain competitive. These aren't $30/hour jobs. They're most certainly not $35/hour jobs. Push the bar higher and you'll be pushing more work to FedEx. But do you care? Or is it all about you?

1 loader missloading 1 package per car on a dump can cost the company 100 dollars or more. That could go a looonnnnggg way towards pay raises.

An average misload does not cost the company anywhere near $100.

If UPS wants to pay its employees (what's gradually becoming) minimum wage and push productivity beyond the limits, then it'll have to deal with frequent service failures. Alas, you get what you pay for. FedEx Ground offers high wages, full-benefits & tuition reimbursement to its PT employees. And they work in air-conditioned buildings, loading (or unloading) fewer packages in more hours. Meanwhile, UPS removed the fans & turned the heat down to 40F in our building. Who's going to attract the higher-quality employees?
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member


I Preloaded for over a decade before going full-time. While I agree driving is a more challenging position, it's certainly not $20/hour more challenging. UPS drivers are seriously overcompensated; these jobs aren't worth $70K a year PLUS full pension PLUS full health benefits that make most blush. Do you know why most drivers wind up in the crapper when they lose their job? It's because they have no marketable skill.


You have piqued my curiosity. I have never noticed your posts before this thread. You state you are full-time. You don't say that you are a full-time driver.

If you are a driver , how long have you been driving?

I have been looking over some of your posts and you seem intelligent. Would you be driving for UPS right now if they payed less?

You get what you pay for and the drivers represent UPS.
 

Southwestern

Well-Known Member
You have piqued my curiosity. I have never noticed your posts before this thread. You state you are full-time. You don't say that you are a full-time driver.

If you are a driver , how long have you been driving?

I have been looking over some of your posts and you seem intelligent. Would you be driving for UPS right now if they payed less?

You get what you pay for and the drivers represent UPS.

That's for the compliments. Yes, I have been FT driving for almost two years, although I have many years of seasonal & air experience. I personally wouldn't have went FT if not for the compensation, but I possess a BA and am actively seeking employment elsewhere. That said, I fully believe that UPS could cut its total compensation in half (let's say $20/hour=top rate, employees pay 20% of diluted benefit cost & pensions replaced with a 3% 401K match) and still attract a very strong labor force. It's still significantly more that comparable jobs, after all.

Don't get me wrong -- I believe the Teamsters should be proud that they've broken the traditional corporate model (giving management excessive compensation while giving the general labor force nothing). But the comments in these & similar threads among FTers (e.g. 'cut PT guarantee to 3 hours, eliminate benefits & pension for PT, cap PT wages at $14/hour') are nothing short than poor rationalizations for hiking what's an already excessive FT wage, and the wrong direction the company needs to take.
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
I disagree Southwestern. I have a college degree and worked almost 8 years as a preloader before becoming a driver. I have driven for almost 20 years now, and earn every penny I make.

Are you a cover driver or do you have your own route already? Have you gone out on routes blind? Are you in a part of the country which experiences bad winter weather?

Not trying to start an argument here, I am just stunned that someone feels loading or unloading trucks at the center compares to the responsibility that a driver has.
 

Southwestern

Well-Known Member
I disagree Southwestern. I have a college degree and worked almost 8 years as a preloader before becoming a driver. I have driven for almost 20 years now, and earn every penny I make.

Are you a cover driver or do you have your own route already? Have you gone out on routes blind? Are you in a part of the country which experiences bad winter weather?

Not trying to start an argument here, I am just stunned that someone feels loading or unloading trucks at the center compares to the responsibility that a driver has.

I am near the bottom of the seniority list. Three centers under one roof -- the lowest bid coverage guy is 15-years, the lowest route is over 20. Management attempts to keep me in an area I know pretty well, but as work is scarce this time of year, I frequently pull routes blind. And yes, I live in a cold-weather climate that's treacherous at times; in fact, we have several routes that are broken up when it snows as the crux of the volume is tagged emergency conditions.

I, too, am stunned by the sentiment on this forum that part-timers are overcompensated and full-timers under. And yet these same drivers complain about their loads. Which ties together with a previous poster's comment that the majority of part-timers wouldn't be eligible/knowledgeable enough to drive (not that I necessarily agree). You know why? Because the pay is so low & working conditions so poor that the crux of UPS's part-time employment (until the economy burst and jobs became scarce) is comprised of people who solely care about making enough cash to get drunk or high, while not interfering with their welfare benefits. They don't care about their drivers, just getting out of work ASAP. A very harsh generalization, but really not far from the truth. If UPS followed FedEx's lead and provided better compensation & working conditions to its PT, it'd attract a higher-quality work force that would give a dang about its work. But no, according to the FT on these forums, UPS should further cut PT compensation and give it to the FT.

And I don't believe that the work PT does is equal to FT. But I do believe PT are under compensated and FT over.
 
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