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Deeper Lessons from December 7th, 1941'
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 444006" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>I'm not convinced that say Gore won in 2000' and no 9/11 that at some point an Iraq war would not happen. In fact I believe very much the opposite. In 98', it was the Clinton Adminstration who advocated along with strong neo-conservative support for the Iraq Liberation Act that called specifically for regime change in Iraq. It was the Clinton intelligence machine that built the Iraq WMD picture that Bush took up to push for war. </p><p> </p><p>As for surveillance, Eschelon was a Clinton era program and after it was discovered by European govt's to have been used by the US for industrial espionage, the lid came off and we learned that no phone call, email or other electronic message escaped oversight by this democrat adminstration. This is why some Americans don't trust the current adminstration in it's surveil efforts because of past practice. I also find it interesting that the Bush adminstration found it necessary to circumvent the FISA courts when from the time of it's creation to the Bush years, of the 22k plus requests for secret surveillance, not one was ever turned down. </p><p> </p><p>Bush in reality did nothing new accept pick up a play book (Clinton's), add some players here and there and then decided to air it out on a post pattern instead of pushing the running game and playing for field position. Watch Obama because he looks to do the same except he's gonna run multiple post routes (Afghanistan & Iran plus Darfur), no backs in the backfield and the QB in the shotgun. Obama's gonna make Mike Vick look like he's sitting in a jailcell and that's gonna be pretty easy I might add!</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p> </p><p>Democrats who screamed and yelled at Bush and his war policy with Obama are being forced to live as hypocrites or vocally speakout to Obama's betrayal to what he ran on and how he protrayed himself when on the campaign trail. And the silence is damning! </p><p> </p><p>I suspect most will sit silent like they did in the Clinton years and only wait if and when the next republican president is elected to open their hypocritical mouths again! I guess in their case being an emperialist is wrong unless the name has "DEM." behind it!</p><p> </p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p> </p><p>Then again, republicans showed their hypocrisy by opposing the Balkans because of "Nation Building" and showed their American disloyality to a sitting President by speaing out so maybe this stuff just runs in cycles. Maybe Clinton wasn't so quick with Iraq because of republican disloyality to the President in the case of the Balkans! And then democrats just returned the favor since 2000'. Hypocrite one term, loyal American the next! At least it's not boring but it is ultimately in the realm of economics that's going to make us a 3rd world country so what the heck!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 444006, member: 2189"] I'm not convinced that say Gore won in 2000' and no 9/11 that at some point an Iraq war would not happen. In fact I believe very much the opposite. In 98', it was the Clinton Adminstration who advocated along with strong neo-conservative support for the Iraq Liberation Act that called specifically for regime change in Iraq. It was the Clinton intelligence machine that built the Iraq WMD picture that Bush took up to push for war. As for surveillance, Eschelon was a Clinton era program and after it was discovered by European govt's to have been used by the US for industrial espionage, the lid came off and we learned that no phone call, email or other electronic message escaped oversight by this democrat adminstration. This is why some Americans don't trust the current adminstration in it's surveil efforts because of past practice. I also find it interesting that the Bush adminstration found it necessary to circumvent the FISA courts when from the time of it's creation to the Bush years, of the 22k plus requests for secret surveillance, not one was ever turned down. Bush in reality did nothing new accept pick up a play book (Clinton's), add some players here and there and then decided to air it out on a post pattern instead of pushing the running game and playing for field position. Watch Obama because he looks to do the same except he's gonna run multiple post routes (Afghanistan & Iran plus Darfur), no backs in the backfield and the QB in the shotgun. Obama's gonna make Mike Vick look like he's sitting in a jailcell and that's gonna be pretty easy I might add! :happy-very: Democrats who screamed and yelled at Bush and his war policy with Obama are being forced to live as hypocrites or vocally speakout to Obama's betrayal to what he ran on and how he protrayed himself when on the campaign trail. And the silence is damning! I suspect most will sit silent like they did in the Clinton years and only wait if and when the next republican president is elected to open their hypocritical mouths again! I guess in their case being an emperialist is wrong unless the name has "DEM." behind it! :happy-very: Then again, republicans showed their hypocrisy by opposing the Balkans because of "Nation Building" and showed their American disloyality to a sitting President by speaing out so maybe this stuff just runs in cycles. Maybe Clinton wasn't so quick with Iraq because of republican disloyality to the President in the case of the Balkans! And then democrats just returned the favor since 2000'. Hypocrite one term, loyal American the next! At least it's not boring but it is ultimately in the realm of economics that's going to make us a 3rd world country so what the heck! [/QUOTE]
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