Designated Walk Path

Catatonic

Nine Lives
On my last time study ride (March 2010), I had two houses side by side. I grabbed two packages, delivered one. The driveways were about 8' apart so I crossed 8' of lawn to save walking back to the road and back down driveway 2.
The time studier told me not to do that, use designated walkpaths.

Sounds like the TSO was trying to get you to help him/her get the correct allowance. Furthermore, unless this is something new, there is no such thing as a designated walk-path ... the driver is suppose to use their judgment to take the most expeditious path while doing that in a safe manner.
Also, in almost all cases, a walk classification in a time study will not change for walking up the driveway or walking across the lawn.
For instance, on a well manicured lawn, the driver may walk across it because you can see any holes, obstacles etc. ... you would not be able to do that with 6 inch grass or snow in the yard.
I tended to use sidewalks or driveways because I could free my mind from scanning the walk path and use the time to record package and stop information.

There is no doubt that different supervisors will have differences in opinion on this just as demonstrated here, drivers have differences in opinion.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
There is no doubt that different supervisors will have differences in opinion on this just as demonstrated here, drivers have differences in opinion.

There is also no doubt that the same supervisor will have often have two different opinions, depending upon whether he is doing a safety evaluation or a 3-day lock in ride.

If the driver walks on the grass and slips and falls, he is to blame for failing to follow safety methods.
If the driver stays on the designated walkway and runs overallowed, he is to blame for failing to take the most direct path.

Hindsight is always 20/20, especially from behind a desk.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Sounds like the TSO was trying to get you to help him/her get the correct allowance. Furthermore, unless this is something new, there is no such thing as a designated walk-path ... the driver is suppose to use their judgment to take the most expeditious path while doing that in a safe manner.
Also, in almost all cases, a walk classification in a time study will not change for walking up the driveway or walking across the lawn.
For instance, on a well manicured lawn, the driver may walk across it because you can see any holes, obstacles etc. ... you would not be able to do that with 6 inch grass or snow in the yard.
I tended to use sidewalks or driveways because I could free my mind from scanning the walk path and use the time to record package and stop information.

There is no doubt that different supervisors will have differences in opinion on this just as demonstrated here, drivers have differences in opinion.
Hpaxster,

I hope you have a wonderful New Year!

In response to your above qouted post, maybe it is something new.

There is a UPS Safe Work Methods pocket card, that is relatively new, that references using the designated walk path.

This would imply that there is a designated walk path for each address and who better to know this than the person responsible for the time study of the route.

In response to your statement "the driver is supposed to use their judgment to take the most expeditious path while doing that in a safe manner."

If this is true then we are all to believe that the time studies of UPS have no consistent criteria for establishing the walk path that each route driver is to take when delivering.

The time studies would then be contingent on the personal judgement of each and every driver, this doesn't seem very probable.

How would you know the time measurement if you don't the designated walk path. They are clearly both related to each other.

This would also mean, if the standard is the judgement of the driver as to what walk path to use, then there will never be an injury that is termed avoidable if the only reason for the injury is the path that was taken.

By this logic and practice we should never see on an injury report, "failed to stay on designated walk path" because it is the driver that designates the walk path anyway.

Sincerely,
I
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
There is also no doubt that the same supervisor will have often have two different opinions, depending upon whether he is doing a safety evaluation or a 3-day lock in ride.

If the driver walks on the grass and slips and falls, he is to blame for failing to follow safety methods.
If the driver stays on the designated walkway and runs overallowed, he is to blame for failing to take the most direct path.

Hindsight is always 20/20, especially from behind a desk.

Hindsight in this case is inevitable. It goes with the territory.

I do agree that if a supervisor gives two conflicting directions for the same situation, then there is a no win situation. In the context of this thread, then yes, that could be an integrity problem. In reality however, methods do not say NEVER walk on grass or ALWAYS do so. The designated walkpath is situational.

The problem is that there are coutless situations. Supervisors cannot pre-determine the correct decision for every one.

You ask for drivers judgement to be given merit. I always do so. I listen to what drivers think.... The other side of that coin is that if you make an incorrect call, I have a responsibility to discuss it with you.

If its wet and rainy and you feel the grass is unsafe, walk on the pavement. You make that call.

From behind a desk (and with 35 years experience) I may question your call. That's my job.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Hoaxster,

I hope you have a wonderful New Year!

The time studies would then be contingent on the personal judgement of each and every driver, this doesn't seem very probable.

How would you know the time measurement if you don't the designated walk path. They are clearly both related to each other.

Sincerely,
I

Happy New Year to you too ... hope you have a good, healthy and safe 2011!

I only posted in regards to Time Studies and the Designated Walk Path.
I am not going to get into what is safe and what is not .. my opinion is that each person has to decide that for themselves and it can not be defined.

Now, back to Time Studies ... the TSO is not counting steps or measuring distances. He/She is much too busy doing other things. The TSO will classify a walk distance into 3 basic Walk Calssifications (may have changed) . Whether the driver walks directly to the "left at" location or uses another paved pathway is almost always irrelevant - the distance is going to fall into the same Walk Classification.

I think that you and others here not understanding this aspect of Walk Classifications is confusing you and causing you unnecessary angst. But that's okay .. I always liked Kurt Cobain.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
I strongly agree with prezel man adding only that I did not spend my 36 years behind a desk but always in operations. I walked over lawns thousands of times and would believe that since 1907 this simple action that has been performed billlions of times is being beaten to death.
Many Drivers would like and I believe appreciate the ability to make their own decisions on their areas. I know that a great deal of the job is "DICTATED" to them. I do not feel that this is even close to be one of them. Let the local drivers,management and union deal with any disagreements. From what I have heard on this cafe --if upstate was the driver,407 was the union rep and pretzel was the management person the issue would be resolved.:happy2:
The Driver on his or her area is more than qualified to determine the "designated walkpath"
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Happy New Year to you too ... hope you have a good, healthy and safe 2011!

I only posted in regards to Time Studies and the Designated Walk Path.
I am not going to get into what is safe and what is not .. my opinion is that each person has to decide that for themselves and it can not be defined.

Now, back to Time Studies ... the TSO is not counting steps or measuring distances. He/She is much too busy doing other things. The TSO will classify a walk distance into 3 basic Walk Calssifications (may have changed) . Whether the driver walks directly to the "left at" location or uses another paved pathway is almost always irrelevant - the distance is going to fall into the same Walk Classification.

I think that you and others here not understanding this aspect of Walk Classifications is confusing you and causing you unnecessary angst. But that's okay .. I always liked Kurt Cobain.

Hoaxter,

To wrap this up with you, please comment on the following:

In your opinion, it is the UPS driver who designates the walk path to be used when making delivery stops. True or False

Sincerely,
I
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
I strongly agree with prezel man adding only that I did not spend my 36 years behind a desk but always in operations. I walked over lawns thousands of times and would believe that since 1907 this simple action that has been performed billlions of times is being beaten to death.
Many Drivers would like and I believe appreciate the ability to make their own decisions on their areas. I know that a great deal of the job is "DICTATED" to them. I do not feel that this is even close to be one of them. Let the local drivers,management and union deal with any disagreements. From what I have heard on this cafe --if upstate was the driver,407 was the union rep and pretzel was the management person the issue would be resolved.:happy2:
The Driver on his or her area is more than qualified to determine the "designated walkpath"
island1fox,

So you would agree that no injury report should have on it, "failed to stay on designated walk path", as the reason for an injury being classified as avoidable?

Sincerely,
I
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
:peaceful:Integrity,
You should realize that there always are exceptions. For example as a driver I request relief of OT and it is not granted --instead of the designated walkpath I safely choose everyday -I decide to "HOP OVER" a three foot fence and hurt my ankle. Did I make a bad decision ? Did I deviate from my designated walk path ?
Again for an action that occurs thousands of times a day with few problems, I believe the "system" ----the Drivers, local mgmt, local union and safety commitees can solve any exceptions.
On this thread I am done ---we are beginning to walk down a path of lunacy --designated or not !:wink2:
 

tourists24

Well-Known Member
You can designate any walk path you like, as long as you dont get hurt.... If you go straight through the yard to a porch (point A to point B) and something happens, you can bet you bottom dollar if there was a cement walkway around, then that will be the Monday morning quarterback decision; even if the walkway adds 3 times the walking distance.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
:peaceful:Integrity,
You should realize that there always are exceptions. For example as a driver I request relief of OT and it is not granted --instead of the designated walkpath I safely choose everyday -I decide to "HOP OVER" a three foot fence and hurt my ankle. Did I make a bad decision ? Did I deviate from my designated walk path ?
Again for an action that occurs thousands of times a day with few problems, I believe the "system" ----the Drivers, local mgmt, local union and safety commitees can solve any exceptions.
On this thread I am done ---we are beginning to walk down a path of lunacy --designated or not !:wink2:

island1fox,

Have a Happy New Year!!

Thank you for your contribution to this discussion thread.

Sincerely,
I
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
island1fox,

So you would agree that no injury report should have on it, "failed to stay on designated walk path", as the reason for an injury being classified as avoidable?

Sincerely,
I

don't you realize how silly this is getting?? I do admit that the word "designated" is problematic. The word "appropriate" is better.

I have tremendous respect for our drivers. I want them to make their own decision and "trust" it is the best for the organization.

However, like Reagan said, "trust but verify". I'm sorry but I will question decisions. I guess you can call that "monday morning quarterbacking", but that's the same as is done here to management decisions.

I don't know why this is different than a drive path. I want you to make appropriate decisions. What is appropriate and safe will differ based on the weather. Sometime you will drive down a dirt road, sometimes not.

If I thought you made a wrong decision, I will ask.....

You can't simulataneously ask me to empower you, and then complain that we are not 100% clear on the walk path.... Again, its okay to walk on my lawn. If its snowing or icy, I understand why you do something different.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
:peaceful:Integrity,
You should realize that there always are exceptions. For example as a driver I request relief of OT and it is not granted --instead of the designated walkpath I safely choose everyday -I decide to "HOP OVER" a three foot fence and hurt my ankle. Did I make a bad decision ? Did I deviate from my designated walk path ?
Again for an action that occurs thousands of times a day with few problems, I believe the "system" ----the Drivers, local mgmt, local union and safety commitees can solve any exceptions.
On this thread I am done ---we are beginning to walk down a path of lunacy --designated or not !:wink2:

don't you realize how silly this is getting?? I do admit that the word "designated" is problematic. The word "appropriate" is better.

I have tremendous respect for our drivers. I want them to make their own decision and "trust" it is the best for the organization.

However, like Reagan said, "trust but verify". I'm sorry but I will question decisions. I guess you can call that "monday morning quarterbacking", but that's the same as is done here to management decisions.

I don't know why this is different than a drive path. I want you to make appropriate decisions. What is appropriate and safe will differ based on the weather. Sometime you will drive down a dirt road, sometimes not.

If I thought you made a wrong decision, I will ask.....

You can't simulataneously ask me to empower you, and then complain that we are not 100% clear on the walk path.... Again, its okay to walk on my lawn. If its snowing or icy, I understand why you do something different.

To all,

I agree with island1fox and pretzel_man,

This issue is silly, problematic and some of the discussion may be bordering on lunacy but I am not sure it.

I think it is bordering on lunacy when a large corporation uses terminology, such as designated walk path, in it's safety training, job methods and injury investigation reports and fails to give the work force a clear definition of the term.

Sincerely,
I
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
To all,

I agree with island1fox and pretzel_man,

This issue is silly, problematic and some of the discussion may be bordering on lunacy but I am not sure it.

I think it is bordering on lunacy when a large corporation uses terminology, such as designated walk path, in it's safety training, job methods and injury investigation reports and fails to give the work force a clear definition of the term.

Sincerely,
I

Remember, you are the one who started this thread....

I think that's called begging the question.
 

brownelf

Well-Known Member
perhaps with telematics this will become another report for mgmt to generate. I'm sure someone can come up with a matrix or standard for the driver to be held too. With the current technology as long as you're using the methods and stop completing at the delivery point, the diad should be able to record your walkpath from package car to delivery point and back.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
:peaceful:Integrity,
While all of us would admit we have made mistakes in our lives I do value my personal integrity and have no problem with the person that looks back at me in the mirror every morning.
I did state that I am finished commenting on this thread but I do want to wish you and your family a very happy, safe and prosperous New Year.
Happy New Year to ALL !!!!
 

tourists24

Well-Known Member
Its still all irrelevant also. If you are in an accident or get hurt, there is always going to be "something you should have done different". You get hit while parked, you should have parked somewhere else. Someone runs a red light and hits you, you should have expected it and made that eye contact. There will always be something the driver should have done to have avoided it. You use the same walk path for years and all goes fine til one day you slip, trip, or fall and then you should have gone the other way.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
:peaceful:Integrity,
You should realize that there always are exceptions. For example as a driver I request relief of OT and it is not granted --instead of the designated walkpath I safely choose everyday -I decide to "HOP OVER" a three foot fence and hurt my ankle. Did I make a bad decision ? Did I deviate from my designated walk path ?
Again for an action that occurs thousands of times a day with few problems, I believe the "system" ----the Drivers, local mgmt, local union and safety commitees can solve any exceptions.
On this thread I am done ---we are beginning to walk down a path of lunacy --designated or not !:wink2:
island1fox,

Dicussing where improvements can be made and questioning a judgement call about a walk path is entirely different from having an unavoidable injury classified as an avoidable injury for failure to stay on the designated walk path.

Can you answer following question please:

Avoidable or unavoidable?

A 25 year driver hops over a 3 foot fence and twists his ankle upon contact with the ground.He has been hopping over this fence for 25 years and has never had any problems. He follows all safe work methods and there were no changes to the property or ground that could have caused his injury. The only thing he can come up with is that he is not as young as he once was and he simply turned his ankle.

While the management person was conducting the injury investigation report it was noted that there was a sidewalk available at both residences and that, although it was long and would have added time to the stops, if he had walked the walkway he would not have turned his ankle the way he had.

The management person wants to classify this as avoidable.

The driver said that while that was true, he was using his designated walk path and he was also using all other safe work methods.

The driver wants this classified as unavoidable.

You make the call, avoidable or unavoidable?

Sincerely,
I
 
Top