Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Discussions
Displaced Air Driver
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="air_dr" data-source="post: 809173" data-attributes="member: 29929"><p>Greasy1970 already gave a shortanswer to this question. The following, from another thread, in response to a question I asked, discusses this subject more fully. Here is the post from the other thread...</p><p></p><p>Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>QUESTION ASKED:</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Originally Posted by <strong>air_dr</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Thank you for your post.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Please help me understand this arbitration UPS lost "that allowed the full time drivers to do Early AM's." It has been my understanding that any work that an air driver may do can also be given to a FT if the company so chooses. Its only the opposite that is not permitted...right?</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Your post leads right to a question I presented in another thread, but nobody chose to answer it. I'm sure the right person (perhaps you) just didn't notice it, so I will present it again.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">I would like to get a contract issue clarified. Some of the posts on this thread have raised questions in my mind. Being an air driver, these issues concern me for good reason.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Here is the relevant Article 40 language for everyone's consideration:</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(a) Air driver work shall consist of delivery and pickup of air packages which, because of time and customer commitments, cannot be reasonably performed by regular package drivers. Such work may include:</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(1) Delivery of air packages which the regular delivery drivers cannot deliver within guaranteed time commitments.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(2) Delivery of air packages arriving at the facility after regular drivers have been dispatched.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(3) Delivery and pick up of air packages on weekends and holidays.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(4) On Call Air pickups.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(5) Pick up at air counters and drop boxes.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(6) Additional late air pickups.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(7) Air drivers may, on an exception basis, be used to make service on packages which are not air packages.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(8) Delivery of early AM Packages.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">(9) Movement of air packages to airports and other locations such as service centers, UPS buildings and driver meet points. </span></span></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Two questions I guess:</span></span></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times-Roman'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">First of all, does the the language imply that the work described in items (1) through (9), since it falls under the wording of letter (a) mean that <em>all</em> those nine tasks listed should preferably go to a full timer?</span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times-Roman'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Second, if the answer to the above is "yes," what is the threshold of reasonable? Other than running off excess NDAs, which in many, but not all, centers truly could not be done by FT's before the advertised commit time, all the other stuff, as I see it, (even Sat deliveries) could be done by FT's if the comapny paid certain drivers OT. Such an interpreatation of the language hardly leaves any work for air drivers!</span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times-Roman'"></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times-Roman'"></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times-Roman'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Of course, this is not an interpretation I am advocating. I like my air driver job. I just want to know how senior management and union officials understand this language.</span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>ANSWER GIVEN:</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Great questions , I'm not an expert but any delivery work is full time drivers work first , I'll try to explain what the language means ( i hope ) 15 years ago UPS stopped drivers from del Eam because drivers were dispatched at around 8-8:15 am , so since the routes were ready to go out at that time , if drivers went to del Eam there routes would sit there for almost an hour until they got back , delaying the routes from going out , and we were told by 804 at the time we lost that fight. (total BS , I felt that there was nothing wrong with the routes sitting waiting for the drivers to come back maybe then all the packages would be loaded correctly ) but now drivers are leaving the buildings like 9am plenty of time for drivers to del Eam's and be back by 9am. So when you read this <strong>because of time and customer commitments, cannot be reasonably performed by regular package drivers.</strong> yes all 9 tasks should go to the drivers but some of it can't be reasonably performed , thats why it also says <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>Such work MAY include.. </strong>To answer your second Q ,, you are right the drivers could do most of that work but that would mean putting on a lot of more full timers and paying the drivers a lot more overtime plus Saturday may not be 8 hours work but drivers guarantee is 8 hours. Where the fight always comes into play is that to the union <strong>reasonably performed</strong> means having the time to do it and still do ones route. to UPS <strong>reasonably performed</strong> means how much will it cost to get it done. I feel that Local 804 didn't care about what was going on because all the drivers were getting over 8 hours , so the idea of putting on 300 - 500 p/t air drivers in metro NY 15 years ago meant more union dues coming into the union so why fight for 100 new driver jobs. I do think it was good to get those p/t jobs at the time but now UPS is only looking at being productive on paper not the cost. </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>So now all the p/t air drivers that went out of there way to make sure the airs got delivered on-time for years and years and helped build this company are being told by UPS friend-U we don't need you any more, good old UPS....TIME FOR EVER COSTUMER TO GET THERE MONEY BACK ON A LATE AIR.</strong></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">hope this helped......</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="air_dr, post: 809173, member: 29929"] Greasy1970 already gave a shortanswer to this question. The following, from another thread, in response to a question I asked, discusses this subject more fully. Here is the post from the other thread... Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan [INDENT][B]QUESTION ASKED:[/B] Originally Posted by [B]air_dr[/B] Thank you for your post. Please help me understand this arbitration UPS lost "that allowed the full time drivers to do Early AM's." It has been my understanding that any work that an air driver may do can also be given to a FT if the company so chooses. Its only the opposite that is not permitted...right? Your post leads right to a question I presented in another thread, but nobody chose to answer it. I'm sure the right person (perhaps you) just didn't notice it, so I will present it again. [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I would like to get a contract issue clarified. Some of the posts on this thread have raised questions in my mind. Being an air driver, these issues concern me for good reason.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Here is the relevant Article 40 language for everyone's consideration:[/SIZE][/FONT] [LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3](a) Air driver work shall consist of delivery and pickup of air packages which, because of time and customer commitments, cannot be reasonably performed by regular package drivers. Such work may include: (1) Delivery of air packages which the regular delivery drivers cannot deliver within guaranteed time commitments. (2) Delivery of air packages arriving at the facility after regular drivers have been dispatched. (3) Delivery and pick up of air packages on weekends and holidays. (4) On Call Air pickups. (5) Pick up at air counters and drop boxes. (6) Additional late air pickups. (7) Air drivers may, on an exception basis, be used to make service on packages which are not air packages. (8) Delivery of early AM Packages. (9) Movement of air packages to airports and other locations such as service centers, UPS buildings and driver meet points. [/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Two questions I guess:[/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][SIZE=1][FONT=Times-Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]First of all, does the the language imply that the work described in items (1) through (9), since it falls under the wording of letter (a) mean that [I]all[/I] those nine tasks listed should preferably go to a full timer?[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [LEFT][SIZE=1][FONT=Times-Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Second, if the answer to the above is "yes," what is the threshold of reasonable? Other than running off excess NDAs, which in many, but not all, centers truly could not be done by FT's before the advertised commit time, all the other stuff, as I see it, (even Sat deliveries) could be done by FT's if the comapny paid certain drivers OT. Such an interpreatation of the language hardly leaves any work for air drivers![/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [SIZE=1][FONT=Times-Roman] [/FONT][/SIZE] [LEFT][SIZE=1][FONT=Times-Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Of course, this is not an interpretation I am advocating. I like my air driver job. I just want to know how senior management and union officials understand this language.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [SIZE=1][FONT=Times-Roman][/FONT][/SIZE] [B]ANSWER GIVEN:[/B] Great questions , I'm not an expert but any delivery work is full time drivers work first , I'll try to explain what the language means ( i hope ) 15 years ago UPS stopped drivers from del Eam because drivers were dispatched at around 8-8:15 am , so since the routes were ready to go out at that time , if drivers went to del Eam there routes would sit there for almost an hour until they got back , delaying the routes from going out , and we were told by 804 at the time we lost that fight. (total BS , I felt that there was nothing wrong with the routes sitting waiting for the drivers to come back maybe then all the packages would be loaded correctly ) but now drivers are leaving the buildings like 9am plenty of time for drivers to del Eam's and be back by 9am. So when you read this [B]because of time and customer commitments, cannot be reasonably performed by regular package drivers.[/B] yes all 9 tasks should go to the drivers but some of it can't be reasonably performed , thats why it also says [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B]Such work MAY include.. [/B]To answer your second Q ,, you are right the drivers could do most of that work but that would mean putting on a lot of more full timers and paying the drivers a lot more overtime plus Saturday may not be 8 hours work but drivers guarantee is 8 hours. Where the fight always comes into play is that to the union [B]reasonably performed[/B] means having the time to do it and still do ones route. to UPS [B]reasonably performed[/B] means how much will it cost to get it done. I feel that Local 804 didn't care about what was going on because all the drivers were getting over 8 hours , so the idea of putting on 300 - 500 p/t air drivers in metro NY 15 years ago meant more union dues coming into the union so why fight for 100 new driver jobs. I do think it was good to get those p/t jobs at the time but now UPS is only looking at being productive on paper not the cost. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B]So now all the p/t air drivers that went out of there way to make sure the airs got delivered on-time for years and years and helped build this company are being told by UPS friend-U we don't need you any more, good old UPS....TIME FOR EVER COSTUMER TO GET THERE MONEY BACK ON A LATE AIR.[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]hope this helped......[/SIZE][/FONT] [/INDENT] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Discussions
Displaced Air Driver
Top