Displaced by 22.3

[PT4Life]

Im P/T with 20+yrs..I was recently displaced by a 22.3 without warning or notice...Ive lost 2hrs pay a week and now am being forced to work the sort...What options do I have as far as switching shifts or displacing less senior employees to regain my lost time and acquire less "demanding" work.......Thanks for any input,I cant even get a call back from my local and my steward is on vacation......

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Im P/T with 20+yrs..I was recently displaced by a 22.3 without warning or notice...Ive lost 2hrs pay a week and now am being forced to work the sort...What options do I have as far as switching shifts or displacing less senior employees to regain my lost time and acquire less "demanding" work.......Thanks for any input,I cant even get a call back from my local and my steward is on vacation......

less demanding

 

[helenofcalifornia]

What job were you doing that was replaced by the 22.3? How big is your center/hub? Are they many other job opportunities for you other than sorting? And who is the specific person that replaced you? Did he get that job for good reason or what?

 

[gandydancer]

What contracts are you under? What work were you displaced from? How much seniority does the 22.3 have? What happened to his previous work? What form of less demanding work would you prefer and who, with less seniority than you, is doing it?

 

[PT4Life]

I work under the Atlantic supplement.I work the Local/Twi sort.My primary assignment was Air recovery; sorting,scanning &manifesting Next Day Air.Recently a 22.3 bid was posted with the description:hub/carwash combo.After the bid was awarded the job somehow changed to the winning bidder doing my Air recovery job then shuttling the volume to the airport.(Bear in mind the original bid had no mention of Air recovery or Diving pkgs off UPs property)....The recent retirement of the PM air driver(picked up dropboxes,late air etc)who shuttled to the airport left a need for replacement....He was not 22.3 just a full time air driver......Anyway he was not replaced.Later arriving drivers now pick up late air &dropboxes &the 22.3 who displaced me shuttles to the air port..........My building has 3 shifts with many clerks, PAS scanners,smalls sorts.....I have seniority on all P/T employees on every shift....

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

I work under the Atlantic supplement.I work the Local/Twi sort.My primary assignment was Air recovery; sorting,scanning &manifesting Next Day Air.Recently a 22.3 bid was posted with the description:hub/carwash combo.After the bid was awarded the job somehow changed to the winning bidder doing my Air recovery job then shuttling the volume to the airport.(Bear in mind the original bid had no mention of Air recovery or Diving pkgs off UPs property)....The recent retirement of the PM air driver(picked up dropboxes,late air etc)who shuttled to the airport left a need for replacement....He was not 22.3 just a full time air driver......Anyway he was not replaced.Later arriving drivers now pick up late air &dropboxes &the 22.3 who displaced me shuttles to the air port..........My building has 3 shifts with many clerks, PAS scanners,smalls sorts.....I have seniority on all P/T employees on every shift....

Absolutely file a grievance. Better have proof though. This sounds like an inside job.

 

[gandydancer]

I work under the Atlantic supplement.I work the Local/Twi sort.My primary assignment was Air recovery; sorting,scanning &manifesting Next Day Air.Recently a 22.3 bid was posted with the description:hub/carwash combo.After the bid was awarded the job somehow changed to the winning bidder doing my Air recovery job then shuttling the volume to the airport.(Bear in mind the original bid had no mention of Air recovery or Diving pkgs off UPs property)....The recent retirement of the PM air driver(picked up dropboxes,late air etc)who shuttled to the airport left a need for replacement....He was not 22.3 just a full time air driver......Anyway he was not replaced.Later arriving drivers now pick up late air &dropboxes &the 22.3 who displaced me shuttles to the air port..........My building has 3 shifts with many clerks, PAS scanners,smalls sorts.....I have seniority on all P/T employees on every shift....

Ok, the 22.3 CAN do the inside air recovery work on the undifferentiated "HUB/SORT" half of his 22.3 job description, but management has no right to ASSIGN him to do that over your objections. By objecting to his taking over your work you notified management that you considered the inside air recovery work a "preferred job", and under National Master Article 22 they had to put it up to bid, which bid you, as the most senior employee, would have won. Grieve it, ask for lost hours. You should win unless your local BA fails to represent.

Is this guy a NEW 22.3? I thought management was holding back on fulfilling its obligation to create those.

Oh, some driver who didn't get the opportunity to do the retiree's work given to some putative carwasher also has a grievance. You might want to talk to some of them if management gives you any guff.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Ok, the 22.3 CAN do the inside air recovery work on the undifferentiated "HUB/SORT" half of his 22.3 job description, but management has no right to ASSIGN him to do that over your objections. By objecting to his taking over your work you notified management that you considered the inside air recovery work a "preferred job", and under National Master Article 22 they had to put it up to bid, which bid you, as the most senior employee, would have won. Grieve it, ask for lost hours. You should win unless your local BA fails to represent.

Is this guy a NEW 22.3? I thought management was holding back on fulfilling its obligation to create those.

Oh, some driver who didn't get the opportunity to do the retiree's work given to some putative carwasher also has a grievance. You might want to talk to some of them if management gives you any guff.

Full-time always has more seniority over part-time.

 

[gandydancer]

Full-time always has more seniority over part-time.

Nope. I wish. I lost nine years 4 months building seniority when I went 22.3, and I'd love to find contract language that says I have more seniority in bidding for extra work and early start than all parttimers. But I haven't found it yet. Would be really nice to have, immediately in an outstanding grievance I have over a short-lived management decision to move my ODC start time from 5:15 to 5:45 and have the data capture for the east coast air performed by a squad of parttimers, but I had to rely on a past-practice definition-of-bid-work argument. And the same issue went to panel previously -- I think the outcome was that the union defaulted because they weren't ready to proceed, a fact a prior BA succeded in hiding from the other involved grievants but sort-of admitted to me last year.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Nope. I wish. I lost nine years 4 months building seniority when I went 22.3, and I'd love to find contract language that says I have more seniority in bidding for extra work and early start than all parttimers. But I haven't found it yet. Would be really nice to have, immediately in an outstanding grievance I have over a short-lived management decision to move my ODC start time from 5:15 to 5:45 and have the data capture for the east coast air performed by a squad of parttimers, but I had to rely on a past-practice definition-of-bid-work argument. And the same issue went to panel previously -- I think the outcome was that the union defaulted because they weren't ready to proceed, a fact a prior BA succeded in hiding from the other involved grievants but sort-of admitted to me last year.

Yeah, bidding early starts is a bit different because start-times and preferred jobs are bid between part-timers in some language in the contract. That is part-time language as far as I know. But as far as extra work at end of shift, etc, full-timers here always are asked whether they want to stay and work or go home before any part-timer. Also regarding layoffs with overstaffing. Full-time always have more seniority than part-time employees, and are asked first. That's how it usually is up this way.

 

[Nitelite]

Well, they are asked if they haven't made their guarantee. If they have, and part timers are not on OT, they can (and do) send you home regardless of work that is available.

 

[gandydancer]

Yeah, bidding early starts is a bit different because start-times and preferred jobs are bid between part-timers in some language in the contract. That is part-time language as far as I know. But as far as extra work at end of shift, etc, full-timers here always are asked whether they want to stay and work or go home before any part-timer. Also regarding layoffs with overstaffing. Full-time always have more seniority than part-time employees, and are asked first. That's how it usually is up this way.

Yeah, that's the point. There's a lot of local practice that covers lacunae in or even flatly contradicts the contracts. I load on my second half and I've three or four times in the last four or five years gone through brief spasms of management trying to cut me out at 8 hours and having my work finished by low seniority part timers. Won a little back pay once at pre panel and had my grievances disappear without a trace two or three times, but in each case the practice didn't last more than a few days. But mostly they don't question my right to stat til the end, and I don't make a big production of having to be the very last guy doing wrap-up.

 

[FAVREFAN]

Sorry PT4Life. Part-timers in my area are in the same boat. Years back I saw pt's with 25+ years get replaced with 22.3's who just went fulltime. A brand new 22.3 has seniority over a part timer regardless if the part timer has even 40 years or whatever it may be. It's bull s_it. But the union f_cked us on that one. I'm in your boat right now with it being slow. They flooded our area with 22.3's and the remaining pt's are getting 3.5 hrs and being sent out to other area's. Best of luck to you, I know I'll need it come January. Peace.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

[EVIL][/EVIL]

Sorry PT4Life. Part-timers in my area are in the same boat. Years back I saw pt's with 25+ years get replaced with 22.3's who just went fulltime. A brand new 22.3 has seniority over a part timer regardless if the part timer has even 40 years or whatever it may be. It's bull s_it. But the union f_cked us on that one. I'm in your boat right now with it being slow. They flooded our area with 22.3's and the remaining pt's are getting 3.5 hrs and being sent out to other area's. Best of luck to you, I know I'll need it come January. Peace.

whoaaa how is that bull? The 22.3 took the initiative to make their main source of income UPS. Part-timer didn't. That was and is their choice. I am not trying to swing the bigger *(* here but c'mon, a full-time UPS'er and Teamster should absolutely have seniority over any part-timer simply because they are in the trenches for 8+ hours, not trying to run out after 3 hours like most of the kids.

 

[hyena]

whoaaa how is that bull? The 22.3 took the initiative to make their main source of income UPS. Part-timer didn't. That was and is their choice. I am not trying to swing the bigger *(* here but c'mon, a full-time UPS'er and Teamster should absolutely have seniority over any part-timer simply because they are in the trenches for 8+ hours, not trying to run out after 3 hours like most of the kids.

What about the people who are trying to get full time. Your only shot really is to start part time and wait till a vacancy to go full time. I took the initiative to go full time by starting out part time!

 

[sortaisle]

[EVIL][/EVIL]

whoaaa how is that bull? The 22.3 took the initiative to make their main source of income UPS. Part-timer didn't. That was and is their choice. I am not trying to swing the bigger *(* here but c'mon, a full-time UPS'er and Teamster should absolutely have seniority over any part-timer simply because they are in the trenches for 8+ hours, not trying to run out after 3 hours like most of the kids.

I don't know, that kind of sucks in some ways. With that line of thinking, someone who transfers to a different building should dovetail their seniority instead of entail based off of his time worked at UPS cause time served is time served. But it would displace people who've been waiting for full time spots in that building. That's exactly what is happening with the part time guy who gets displaced by the full time guy isn't it? Or is my logic flawed? (Wouldn't be suprised...)

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

I don't know, that kind of sucks in some ways. With that line of thinking, someone who transfers to a different building should dovetail their seniority instead of entail based off of his time worked at UPS cause time served is time served. But it would displace people who've been waiting for full time spots in that building. That's exactly what is happening with the part time guy who gets displaced by the full time guy isn't it? Or is my logic flawed? (Wouldn't be suprised...)

I'm not really sure the logic. Can't say you have a point or not! Transfers as part-time to a diff building?

Usually when you are displaced by a full-time employee as a part-time employee, you are moved within the building.

I've bumped two part-timers in 3 years so I know from experience what happens up this way. When I bid a 22.3 a few years ago, the bid bumped one PT employee from customer counter to the local sort, he was moved to a different building. The seniority was dovetailed, though!.

The other bid last March bumped someone from preload sort to small sort, this was when I moved again to another building, and that person stayed in the same building- moved small sort.

 

[sortaisle]

hmmm...well however it works out it works out right?

 

[gandydancer]

... I've bumped two part-timers in 3 years so I know from experience what happens up this way. When I bid a 22.3 a few years ago, the bid bumped one PT employee from customer counter to the local sort, he was moved to a different building. The seniority was dovetailed, though!.

The other bid last March bumped someone from preload sort to small sort, this was when I moved again to another building, and that person stayed in the same building- moved small sort.

Article 22, section 3: "No part-time employee shall be laid off or suffer a loss of a job as a result of creating a full-time job under this Article or Article 40." And yes, "suffer the loss of a job" clearly means being kicked off the customer counter as opposed to being put on layoff. That's an "or", not an "and" in the quoted sentence. But a lot of the interpretation of the contract seems to be done by illiterates.