Do stewards really have a bullseye?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by blacknproud, Dec 10, 2007.

  1. blacknproud

    blacknproud Member

    Just wondering, we have a steward on our sort who is a full time 22.3, he is either ON or OFF, I mean he picks his battles. Is that the right way to handle the "company" or is "knit" picking a problem? I wanted to file a grievance on a sup working 1/2 hour when he told me to go to lunch, I took it to my steward and he basicaly said it wasn't worth the headache, it would also be a long time until I got paid, he also said I would be a walking tarfet if I did, I told him as soon as walk into UPS I have a target on my back for calling the corporate line about a different issue. He said you have no idea what a target is only the STEWARDS who don't put up with the managment's crap have the targets against them. So I said fine, went over his head to my full time sup, told him what was going on, he gave me 1 hour of overtime on my check, it was under union time. No harm no foul, although didn't he "play" with the hours and isn't that a no no? In the end I got 1 hour of OT, I was happy and confused.

    Just thought I'd share....
  2. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    If you go to him with a grievance its his job to resolve it, with or without a grievance. Let your agent know that you were brushed off on this issue and he will talk with the steward. I dont understand some of these stewards, its our job to represent the members, if a memeber says file you file you dont talk him out of it. The union could be liable for a steward not doing his job!
  3. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    First, as Red said that's not playing with the hours. There was a steward here in Denver that would grieve practically every DAY for supes working. Man.....I really didn't like being near when that hit the fan! Talk about a bulls-eye, just for 'guilt by association.' It became bad enough I instructed the steward not to drag me into what I called 'games' with management. He didn't like that one bit. We never did get along. Red and I don't see contract enforcement the same, by the way, Blacknproud. I'd give them a reasonable amount of leeway. ANY leeway is too much for Red. Its just a different way of approaching management. By the way, my last couple weeks as a UPS'er I DID threaten grievances for supes working. It happened twice and it stunned the supervisor(s). And ya know what? THEY STOPPED!!!!

    And Red, this sounds like a pretty decent full-time supe. I heard stories here in Denver of management sweeping dozens of grievances under the rug. When corporate found out (and almost had a coronary), the supe/sort manager responsible was moved! The one I heard about the most wound up in the dead-center of NOWHERE Wyoming. I forget his name now. -Rocky
  4. Well, it is a Stewards job to decide if a grievance "has merit", not just blindly file it if the member insists they do so. (obviously, "not worth the headache" isn't a valid determination of merit)

    I would hope this was an isolated incident for this Steward, as there is no more difficult and thankless job at UPS in my opinion. I would hope you talked to the Steward and told him the outcome, as well as the Business Agent. It might be time for this Steward to take a break and recharge, and you should seriously consider stepping up as you appear to have a good rapport with your full time management.

    The downside to management settleing your grievance without Union involvement (which is illegal by the way), is that there is no official record of the problem or the solution. Now it may have been solved in your particular case but the problem will still persist. (Also, you did the right thing approaching management with your problem first but the Union needs to know the solution to make sure it doesn't violate the contract. In most riders grievances are paid by separate 'green' check to avoid hiding the hours under Union Time as the sup did. You did get more than you were entitled to but from your comments I believe you wanted what was fair and weren't asking for payola)

    When I was a Steward yes I did feel like I had a target on my back; however, this made me a better driver because I schooled myself in the 340 methods and knew them better than any of my managers. Doing things the right way kept me out of trouble but never made my numbers any better. Everyone should be doing it the right way, all the time.

    good luck
  5. cino321

    cino321 Active Member

    Leeway doesn't fly in my book. Management asks for a hand they want my whole arm. In my opinion they get too much leeway from the 90% of hourlies who couldn't careless about upholding the contract.

    For the rest of us who do care, hey, that's just extra money in our pocket that you could of had, only because you don't want to be a target.

    Oh and the whole target thing, if you're not doing anything wrong, and working by their methods, than you are untouchable. If they harass you, file a grievance, call corporate, OSHA, call everybody. You need to learn their games, and go tit for tat.

    Also, just because you "threaten" grievances, that holds just about the same merit as management threatening you with discipline, NONE.
  6. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    LOL. C'mon, CACH!! I meant it as far as being reasonable. Say on a planned staff of 30 unloaders, you've got 12 that don't show--call-ins, etc. That's what I was talking about.

    LOL, Cino. You're a funny guy. I tried the grievance route once at a non-UPS union job. Didn't get me anywhere. In just made my life a living h*ll. No, I refused to do that again. And the 'hostile workplace' thing? Not when you can't prove it. The bar I would have had to meet was impossible. I gained 30 pounds from stress eating. I left before I could get a grey hair at 19.

    Again, I find this very funny. When you've got something known as credibility, management listened. I picked my battles with extreme care. If I raised Cain, it was for a good reason. Management realized that fairly quickly. In fact.....without going into detail, we had a safety issue created by a p/t supe. The safety supe blew off coming to talk to me after four hourlies and two other p/t supes brought complaints. An honest p/t supe advised the full-timer in charge of the sort. I spoke to the full-timer after the sort, looked him in the eye and softly growled, "If he ever does this again, I'll grieve him so fast it'll make your head spin! The letter I write Atlanta will have alarms going off every which way from Sunday." He sobered in a hurry and said, "Man....I give you my word I'll handle this personally next week. You will not have another safety issue on your sort aisle as long as I'm here." And I never did.

    Management can bluster all they want. After is only bluster. I actually got a good chuckle out of some of it. That only happened after they walked away, though. Laughing at their faces just bruised egos. -Rocky
  7. cino321

    cino321 Active Member

    No you're the funny guy. I bet the building you worked at was even funnier. It sounds like the perfect place to work at. Your empty rhetoric seems to solve all the problems.

    You my friend represent the entire generation of new UPS'ers, all talk, no action.
  8. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    I also pick my battles as a part timer for my OWN greivances. On my shift a lot of people have day jobs to feed their families and often come in 5-10 minutes late every day depending on the start time. If I started nailing management with supervisors working greivances while the members were still strolling in late, management will fire back with suspensions and even terminations (yes it progressively gets that bad at my hub at times with attendance). So I ask myself, is that 5-10 minutes of pay REALLY worth a couple guys getting warning letters? But if a member comes to me and says he wants to file on management for working, I give him a greivance form and help him/her fill it out if they don't know how to. Your situation - Greivance with merit in my eyes. Did you have witnesses?

    Thats his problem he has crappy relations with management. If you wanted the grieve one minute, I could see his arguement to some point but regardless, I'd still take it because the contract does not say 1 minute or 50 hours is any less important - just says management working. Insist on the grievance within 5 days - if he denies you again, find another steward, or better yet - the head steward of your building.

    Target on his back? You could say so, I know i'm their ace card but I skirt the rules enough to where they have only been able to get me on misloads but I have balanced myself enough for speed so they cant get me for "intentional work stoppage or slow down" and able to follow the methods completely. But again, thats HIS problem as a steward not yours. Nothing is stopping him from resigning if he can't handle the heat. At times I know I bit off way more than I can chew - the stress gets to you sometimes. I can't tell you how many times I've walked out of the building after my shift thinking "ohh am I going to get this person out of that..":whiteflag:

    But as others have said, next time, addres show important it is with you that the contract be enforced and if he denies a greivance with merit, go above his head.
  9. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    Yeah, I amuse everyone pretty easily :happy-very:. The building I worked at was a POS. No decency, high-turnover and a number of lawsuits originated there. One or two of those were posted here by posters which have since disappeared. A couple others I found through research. And no, it wasn't the perfect place to work, hence the reason I left. Empty rhetoric? What are you talking about? Management decided not to gamble on it being empty rhetoric. Does that tell you anything???

    Yeah, yeah....allegedly we have no backbone (or sense of unity/purpose). You want to cross OR deliberately p*ss one of us off? I guarantee you'll regret that decision with most of my generation! We aren't the 20-somethings of the 70's and 80's and to a certain extent the 90's. No, this is an entirely new group of people. This generation has a lot to give....if it get's moving! -Rocky
  10. cino321

    cino321 Active Member

    I know we're not the generation of the past. I'm in my 20's too, I'm observing our generation, and it's disappointing and embarrassing. I hate it when society labels our generation as a bunch of lazy delinquents who have nothing to give and just take, take, and take. Unfortunately, we're not doing a good job proving everyone wrong. I guess you can call me old school.
  11. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    I see the same thing, Cino. It really is embarrassing. For years, I've tried to separate myself from my generation in terms of what I do--working hard for my employer, being reliable, etc, etc. I've been fairly successful at it, too. I've lost count of the number of high school classmates (and some college classmates) that have settled for something. They work a job for $11/hr (barely enough to get by in Chicago's suburbs) and they show zero motivation to make something better for themselves and in some cases, their young family. Yeah...I'm a little old school, too. -Rocky
  12. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Also, if they have no "good work ethic" how are they going to teach their children?? Doesn't make the future look too bright.
  13. MR_Vengeance

    MR_Vengeance United Parcel Survivor

    you gotta go to an agent if your stewart doesn't take you seriously.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2007
  14. MR_Vengeance

    MR_Vengeance United Parcel Survivor

    the gunman who shot up that mall in omaha NB had depression since he was 6 years old!!!! His parents were too busy divorce each other than teaching their child about family values.
  15. Fnix

    Fnix Active Member

    I had good work ethic since my first job at KFC. I was never really taught anything it was just common sense to me. Fair days work for a fair days pay. Do good work and thats all. Always coming in on my days off to cover to the scumbags.
  16. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    Yeah, I've always had a good work ethic, too. I've heard pretty compelling (and credible) arguments that its actually genetic. My work has always been of high caliber. I went to work for a grocer in Illinois when I was 16. It was a brand-new store, so we had every scumbag within 50 miles pass through the place. After a month, I lost track of the number of times my mother called down, "X!! Get up here! You have a phone-call from work!" I still remember those days. No desire to do that again....-Rocky
  17. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    you realize the nature of the union business in our line of work is to discourage a good work ethic. You union in piece meal work can acquire more jobs and more money into the union coffers by having everyone do the bare minimum. Thats why the best you can get the teamsters to agree to is some vague fair days work for fair days pay BS language.

    construction and manufactoring unions tend to be different. they realize their survival relys on quality work. they sell quality and encourage their members to do a quality job.

    nature of the beasts.
  18. local804

    local804 Well-Known Member

    You have to be kidding me tie with a comment like that. Discouraging a good work ethic? I see a big difference between a fair days pay and a corporation that expects an average of 18 stops per hour when size and weight of packages mean nothing. Have you left your office and looked at some of theses trucks and the size of some of these monsters? Remember, people have lives, they have familys and UPS isnt brainwashed into everybody. These drivers piss in God damn bottles to save a few minutes and is that still not enough? Please dont confuse corporate greed with discouraging a good work ethic. Fair days work language was agreed to and signed by you guys also, agree?
  19. cino321

    cino321 Active Member

    Yeah, the teamsters big agenda is to discourage a good work ethic. Congratulations you've exposed the great conspiracy.

    One could argue that management tries to force a impossible work ethic on us, wait I'm sorry, management might say it's realistic, or optimal, hey as long as it's planned it's good, right?

    Doesn't matter how it gets done, extortion, blackmail, threats, systematic harassment, as long as production is optimal then we had a good day, right?
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Prove me wrong. Show me one advertising campaign where the teamsters ever encouraged their members to be the most productive / service oriented labor available. Show me one campaign where the teamsters bragged about their members doing a superior job . Your response here represents the teamster mindset. Oh boo hoo the company is asking us to do too much work to pay for the 28 bucks an hour. Lucky for this company most of the people we have do an exceptional job and take pride in their hard work. But your union does not encourage that type of labor and does everything they can to shy away from it as fair days work for fair days pay shows.

    Step back and look at it realistically.