Don't sign a "Fair Day's Work" agreement

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by JonFrum, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    FYI, the following language is a part of Article 6, Section 1 of the National Master Agreement, even though it may not be in the version you are consulting.

    "In addition, an employee's refusal to sign a Company form relating to the principle of a fair day's work shall not be used for disciplinary purposes unless the signing is required by law or by this Agreement."
  2. BCFan

    BCFan Active Member

    Great post JonFrum I agree 100% for you in this .... My other steward and I have been saying the same thing a violation of Art. 6 Thank You for this post although Tie will probably have a issue with this :) BC (not Boiled Chicken)
  3. UPSGUY72

    UPSGUY72 Well-Known Member

    Why would anyone sign something that's could have a totaly different meaning from one person to another.
  4. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    In the New England Supplement, Article 57, Section 1(b) should say, "All new employees shall be hired on a thirty (30) calendar day's trial basis. . ." The word calendar is missing in the Contract Book. This omission could allow someone to think a new hire must put in thirty working days.
  5. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Obscured by Mirrors Staff Member

    Have not checked out contract lately and I realize it may vary by supplement but where I have been it has always been 30 working days in a 90 day calendar period ... perhaps that is why.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  6. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    The New England Supplement doesn't have that 90-day language. With us it's just 30 calendar days. Though the Company will try to stretch it. And there are exceptions for vacation cover new hires during the summer, and temporary hires during Peak.
  7. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    You guys always tell your people to avoid responsibility and accountability for their actions. Not sure what makes this different.
  8. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    I have no problem being responsible and accountable for all the work given to me. But I will not the one to point the finger at when those who give me that work miscalculate, underestimate,make the wrong decision,or generally just f-up. Don`t come back at that time saying that I didn`t hit the numbers or get the same job done as the week before. It would be nice if they,at that time, held themselves responsible and accountable.
  9. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    It would be nice Cache but it rarely ever happens unless they are forced to.
  10. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    I`m quite clear this would only happen on Fantasy Island. But then again so will myself ever signing any documents especially one guaranteeing my level of work.
  11. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    No one can know the Future.

    No one can know in advance what problems will arise during the workday.

    No one can assure future results, just as a sports star can not guarantee tomorrow's game will be won, and won by a certain margin of victory. There are too many elements beyond his control.

    To make matters worse, the yardsticks, data, and calculations used to generate the metrics are not all scientific. There's Voodoo mixed in.
  12. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    And the allowances arent stop specific, I think this is the holy grail. You get someone who understands metrics, statistics, etc, and give them ups numbers and they probably would have a problem with them. As p-man says, the numbers are based on the BEST possible everything, no sorting, no delays, no traffic(just an average based on your loop or center)..this list could go on forever...these factors right there are a red flag. My favorite is driver a goes up to house 10 feet away from package car and get same time as driver b who goes to 3rd story apt to deliver a actual terms climbing 6 flights of stairs but getting the same allowance.....anyone who has a sup who says this is ok or fair should be f'ing outraged....totally bogus, a huge integrity issue....but its ok.....jonfrum care to put your opinion on here..any comments.
  13. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    Your posts have got so slanted now days, do you think the allowances are fair?????
  14. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Obscured by Mirrors Staff Member

    Don't worry about it ... allowances are for management and whether they are fair or not is management's problem.
  15. Re-Raise

    Re-Raise Well-Known Member

    Wow As a 25 yr driver I have no problem with this statement.

    But for a new driver trying to make management's possibly unfair numbers they are a very real problem.
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    yep you guys are all killing yourself to take management jobs because they are not held accountable. :happy2:
  17. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    these are all wonderful accuses that still don't deny the point that the union guides you folks on how to avoid accountability for your actions. In fact the union by its nature ends up fighting the hardest for the person that does the least or screws up the most.
  18. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    my posts have always been slanted if you're going to deny the union teachs you how to avoid accountability.

    route allowances? No I don't . I think some are impossible to hit and others are a cakewalk. I'll always hear you complain about the tough ones Ive never heard anyone complain about the routes that are too easy.
  19. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Yes, your posts have always been slanted.

    No, the Union doesn't teach us much of anything.

    Most people have Common Sense, and so they try to avoid walking into a trap. Who wants to promise in advance a specific level of performance, result, or outcome, when they don't know the many circumstances they will have to cope with? Even more foolish if the expected performance level is unrealistic to begin with, and the employee lacks the authority to make necessary changes.

    In a normal company Authority and Responsibility go hand in hand. You don't make someone Responsible without giving them the Authority to manage the situation and make necessary adjustments. But at UPS, Authority isn't even given to local Management, let alone the workers.
  20. Backlasher

    Backlasher Stronger, Faster, Browner

    Are you saying we should all start screwing up and doing alot less?? Time for plan C guys!!

    When the numbers don't add up when a route has a split in it with overlapping pickups and conflicting time schedules with ssi accounts that are on a spread to far part to keep a good sporh and can't manage an over 80% compliance cause of these conflicts then yea, I want the union to help keep me from being held accountable for a route that I DID NOT HAVE ANY PART OF PLANNING.

    Look, maybe I'm a part time air guy/cover driver but I don't know of 1 (one) UPS service provider that's lazy, nonproductive and doesn't have a strong wil to put in a good days work to earn his position so we should not be beat up over these numbers so harshly and written up. Note: haven't been written up myself but get to see the pushing first hand.

    Anyone out there know of a slacker UPS driver??? I don't.

    I know I busted my balls on split routes for 4 months and am getting lowered back into the part time on call Abiss after this wonderful labor day, even though I was promised that if I had let go of my 2nd job that they would keep me going all year round, even if it meant hopping between centers and hubs.

    It's all about lies and twisted numbers and thats why we got our union.

    I would due full time with less pay and no union if time allowance was correct and no threats of write ups for low compliance on a badly planned unrealistic pick schedule. We got routes with varies large pickup volumn with good custumers but they are spread apart but set for the same time and can't make em without picking up 1 early or just before they close to pull em off. We would you plan a day jeapordizing good productive volumn pickup accounts and risk lossing that bread and butter just for good numbers.
    We got nothing if we can't keep them happy and that takes a better planned day. not overkilling commercial deliveries running them right into an overlapping 35 pickup set.

    Use your heads and we wont need the unions.

    When you routes going overallowed day in day out by the bid driver and a speedy, aggressive, risk taken, cover driver comes in with less overallowed but it still over an hour then maybe it's not the drivers, maybe it's the plan for that route that's at fault!!!!!!!
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010