DOT 60 hour rule? 70 hours for FedEx?

[bottomups]

Was delivering my one and only dump stop yesterday getting rid of my 25 or so packages. Along comes the FedEx guy with his one envelope. He asked me if we were working Christmas Eve since it fell on a Saturday. I replied that this UPS guy would NOT be, as I would most likely be out of DOT hours and under our local rider we can refuse this work.
He stated that everyone at FedEx was being required to work at their center. I simply said, work your 60 hours by Friday and stay home.
His reply was that they can work 70 hours in one week! Can this be true? I know that they are classified as "pilots" but how does that circumvent the DOT allowances? Would think that we don't want our pilots to be working that many hours a week either!

 

[brett636]

The DOT hours of service limits are 60 hours in 7 days or 70 hours in 8 days, but they still need 34 hours off to reset. It's up to the individual company which limit it places on its drivers.

 

[Backlasher]

No, this is not true. They are under D.O.T. regulations just like the rest of us.

D.O.T. is federal and is over any and all commercial drivers. Even the courier drivers that drive their own personal car. If you are driven commercial then you are subject.

He was just an uneducated driver.

I guess it would be easier to hide your hours under subcontractor work, but you would have to "hide" those hours and falsify.

I know of Commercial SEMI truckers who falsify driver records to pull longer times but it ain't easy.

 

[Backlasher]

It's regullated to 60 driven hrs. So any hrs over that can't be on road but maybe inside work and even that is limited. Plus 34 hr layoff between weeks.

11 hrs driven per day, 14 hrs. total per day including any work outside of driven. 10 hrs. between shifts. 34 hrs layoff between whatever work week.

 

[UPSGUY72]

It's regullated to 60 driven hrs. So any hrs over that can't be on road but maybe inside work and even that is limited. Plus 34 hr layoff between weeks.

11 hrs driven per day, 14 hrs. total per day including any work outside of driven. 10 hrs. between shifts. 34 hrs layoff between whatever work week.

Inside work counts toward your 14 and 60 also. Any work that you get paid for counts towards your 14 and 60 even if it is a second job outside of UPS it still counts. If you volunteer your time to a cause (soup kitchen, salvation ARmy, etc) after work then it doesn't count.

 

[brett636]

Hours-of-Service Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

60/70-Hour On-Duty Limit
May not drive after 60/70 hours on duty in 7/8 consecutive days. A driver may restart a 7/8 consecutive day period after taking 34 or more consecutive hours off duty.

 

[hondo]

It's regulated(sic) to 60 driven hrs. So any hrs over that can't be on road but maybe inside work and even that is limited. Plus 34 hr layoff between weeks.

11 hrs driven per day, 14 hrs. total per day including any work outside of driven. 10 hrs. between shifts. 34 hrs layoff between whatever work week.

As Brett636 said, the current rule is 60 hours on-duty (not driving) in 7 days OR 70 hours on-duty (not driving) in 8 days, The carrier decides which schedule its drivers will fall under. Apparently FedEx uses the 70hrs/8days schedule. It is perfectly legal for them to do so. They can do this because the 8 day period resets every time the driver is off duty 34 hours consecutively. To illustrate: let's say Fred the FedEx driver works Monday through Saturday, starts at 7 AM every day. As long as Fred is off duty by 9 PM Saturday night, 34 hours of off duty time will elapse by 7 AM Monday, resetting the 8 day time period.
With respect to '11 hours driving', the key word is DRIVING. As a delivery truck driver, a significant portion of your workday is not driving on-road. Starting with your PCM, gathering supplies, pre-trip inspection, time spent making deliveries/pickups (the truck is parked/secured-you are not behind the wheel), breaks & lunch, refueling, post-trip inspection, unloading air/international/hazmat/high value packages, etc.
Also, there are many numerous 'loopholes', some or all of which exempt the carrier and driver from having to maintain a paper or automatic/electronic log of the actual hours driving time (buried somewhere in there might be the reason UPS has a '12 hour' rule).

I would refer anyone interested to the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, part 395: Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

 

[barnyard]

Hondo explained it perfectly.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Hondo explained it perfectly.

He usually does.

 

[Jones]

As Brett636 said, the current rule is 60 hours on-duty (not driving) in 7 days OR 70 hours on-duty (not driving) in 8 days, The carrier decides which schedule its drivers will fall under. Apparently FedEx uses the 70hrs/8days schedule. It is perfectly legal for them to do so. They can do this because the 8 day period resets every time the driver is off duty 34 hours consecutively. To illustrate: let's say Fred the FedEx driver works Monday through Saturday, starts at 7 AM every day. As long as Fred is off duty by 9 PM Saturday night, 34 hours of off duty time will elapse by 7 AM Monday, resetting the 8 day time period.
With respect to '11 hours driving', the key word is DRIVING. As a delivery truck driver, a significant portion of your workday is not driving on-road. Starting with your PCM, gathering supplies, pre-trip inspection, time spent making deliveries/pickups (the truck is parked/secured-you are not behind the wheel), breaks & lunch, refueling, post-trip inspection, unloading air/international/hazmat/high value packages, etc.
Also, there are many numerous 'loopholes', some or all of which exempt the carrier and driver from having to maintain a paper or automatic/electronic log of the actual hours driving time (buried somewhere in there might be the reason UPS has a '12 hour' rule).

I would refer anyone interested to the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, part 395: Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

It's not "or", it's "and". Companies have to abide by both cutoffs, they cant just pick one and ignore the other.

 

[Catatonic]

It's not "or", it's "and". Companies have to abide by both cutoffs, they cant just pick one and ignore the other.

He could have meant an inclusive OR.

 

[Jones]

He could have meant an inclusive OR.

The regulations do use the inclusive OR, but that's not the way I read what Hondo and Brett were saying:

As Brett636 said, the current rule is 60 hours on-duty (not driving) in 7 days OR 70 hours on-duty (not driving) in 8 days, The carrier decides which schedule its drivers will fall under.

The carrier can't just decide to let it's drivers work over 60 hours in 7 days as long they don't work over 70 in 8.

 

[UPSGUY72]

The regulations do use the inclusive OR, but that's not the way I read what Hondo and Brett were saying:



The carrier can't just decide to let it's drivers work over 60 hours in 7 days as long they don't work over 70 in 8.

Yes they can the company picks what time limits they want to use as long as they have vehicles on the road 7 days a week.

You are required to follow one of these two “weekly” limits:


• If your company does not operate vehicles every day of the week, you are not allowed to
drive after you’ve been on duty 60 hours during any 7 consecutive days. Once you reach the
60-hour limit, you will not be able to drive again until you have dropped below 60 hours for a
7-consecutive-day period. You may do other work, but you cannot do any more driving until
you are off duty enough days to get below the limit. Any other hours you work, whether they
are for a motor carrier or someone else, must be added to the total.

• If your company does operate vehicles every day of the week, your employer may assign
you to the 70-hour/8-day schedule. This means that you are not allowed to drive after
you’ve been on duty 70 hours in any 8 consecutive days. Once you reach the 70-hour
limit, you will not be able to drive again until you have dropped below 70 hours for an 8*
consecutive-day period. You may do other work, but you cannot do any more driving until
you get below the limit. Any other hours you work, whether they are for a motor carrier or
someone else, must be added to the total.

 

[hondo]

An interpretation of Hours of Service regulations publisher by USDOT/FMCSA on their website:

Link:Interpretation for 395.3: - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

§395.3 Maximum driving time for property-carrying vehicles.


Question 1: May a motor carrier switch from a 60-hour/7-day limit to a 70-hour/8-day limit or vice versa?
Guidance: Yes. The only restriction regarding the use of the 70-hour/8-day rule is that the motor carrier must have Commercial Motor Vehicle CMVs operating every day of the week. The 70-hour/8-day rule is a permissive provision in that a motor carrier with vehicles operating every day of the week is not required to use the 70-hour/8-day rules for calculating its drivers’ hours of service. The motor carrier may, however, assign some or all of its drivers to operate under the 70-hour/8-day rule if it so chooses. The assignment of individual drivers to the 60-hour/7-day or the 70-hour/8-day time rule is left to the discretion of the motor carrier.

Important note:all statements I have made regarding HOS are what I believe to be true, as of November, 2011. Changes to these regulations have proposed, and may go into effect in the near future.

 

[Jones]

Ok I stand corrected, although it doesn't seem to make much sense from a safety standpoint ie, if they have determined that it is unsafe for a driver to operate a motor vehicle after working 60 hours in 7 days why allow to companies to use a more permissive standard based solely on the fact that they are open 7 days a week? Or if the real safety threshold is 70 hours in 8 days then why even have the 60 hour cap?

 

[UPSGUY72]

Ok I stand corrected, although it doesn't seem to make much sense from a safety standpoint ie, if they have determined that it is unsafe for a driver to operate a motor vehicle after working 60 hours in 7 days why allow to companies to use a more permissive standard based solely on the fact that they are open 7 days a week? Or if the real safety threshold is 70 hours in 8 days then why even have the 60 hour cap?

They still need to have a 34 hour reset and can't have more than 11 hour driving time a day.