Driver leaves in underwear

[pickup]

Understanding this happened in San Francisco, it is still not normal behavior to take your pants off and walk away in your underwear, during business hours. Regardless of how upset the driver was with the instruction of the supervisor, his actions are inexcuable in my mind.

I would love to attend this hearing. How is the union going to defend a 30 year employee who chose to make a statement by removing his UPS pants and walking away in his underwear.

With all due respect to your husband, I personally would kick my husband's ass if he walked out of the house in his underwear, which he would never do anyways, much less in the business world.

Each to their own, I suppose.

At that moment , he wasn't an employee anymore. He was fired a few seconds before that.

 

[Channahon]

Is taking your pants off and walking away from a sup who just terminated you really that bad. Christ! We have drivers that shoot puppies, for godsake. Employees that do drugs and don't understand when they get caught. Employees that steal from the company. Employees who steal our belongings out of our trucks. Mgt personnel who lie, threaten, harrass, coerce, falsify and the list goes.

The public indecency thing? Really? You are kidding right? There are women (and men) that wear far less than a pair of bvd's and a work shirt in public everyday. Are they arrested or charged with public indecency? NO! Why is that? Because this predominately male oriented society allows it. Even begs for a woman with nothing more than a string bikini on.

As far as facing his customers if/when he gets his job back. I say, "Face em with your head held high. If you can't laugh at yourself then who can you laugh at."

If society accepted people walking around in their underwear, than why have a clothing industry. There is a time and place for clothing that provides comfort. Notably at the beach and in the summer.

If by chance the driver who did nothing wrong walking around in his underwear and his fly came open and he was exposed, is that acceptable? If I saw someone walking down the street in their underwear, I would surely call 911, as that person needs some help. It could very well be a homeless person or someone with a mental health issue, which I could understand. But a grown man with 30 years at UPS, there is no logic for his actions in my mind. Be on or off the clock.

As far as my relationship with my husband, I noted he would never think about going outside in his underwear, that's not how he was raised and is respectful of his surroundings. I merely stated I would kick his ass, if he did something that inappropiate, as I would imagine he would respond the same way if I went out to get the mail in my bra and underwear.

My final thoughts on this subject.

 

[dilligaf]

No one has asked if the driver was wearing boxers or briefs. Enquiring minds want to know.

I wear boxers as shorts all summer long. I'm sure that will offend some!

 

[pickup]

I wear boxers as shorts all summer long. I'm sure that will offend some!

not me

 

[dilligaf]

It's a safe bet that I will be wearing boxers on the cruise.

 

[pickup]

It's a safe bet that I will be wearing boxers on the cruise.

For some reason, I am sure there will be pictures.

 

[dilligaf]

For some reason, I am sure there will be pictures.

Another safe bet!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

OK--that's it--I'm going.

 

[dannyboy]

Dill

With your posts and position on the subject duly noted, it is not if you or I have a problem with it, it is if an arbitrator has a problem with it. And speaking on what I have noticed when in the presence of the arbitrators, he can kiss his job goodbye. That type of behavior on top of insubordination IMHO is the kiss of death if it gets to arbitration.

His only hope is that UPS will agree to allow him back to work. If they want rid of him, he just handed them his job on a silver platter.

Yeah, he might have made a statement by taking his clothes off, but that action overshadowed his refusal to follow instructions. Both in the conversation here, and betcha at the hearings to follow.

UPS will have a field day passing him off as a nut job at the panel, where if he would have kept his pants on, they would not have the option.

That reminds me. Nothing like dropping your pants on road to get a pink slip in a hurry.

d

 

[pickup]

Dill

With your posts and position on the subject duly noted, it is not if you or I have a problem with it, it is if an arbitrator has a problem with it. And speaking on what I have noticed when in the presence of the arbitrators, he can kiss his job goodbye. That type of behavior on top of insubordination IMHO is the kiss of death if it gets to arbitration.

His only hope is that UPS will agree to allow him back to work. If they want rid of him, he just handed them his job on a silver platter.

Yeah, he might have made a statement by taking his clothes off, but that action overshadowed his refusal to follow instructions. Both in the conversation here, and betcha at the hearings to follow.

UPS will have a field day passing him off as a nut job at the panel, where if he would have kept his pants on, they would not have the option.

That reminds me. Nothing like dropping your pants on road to get a pink slip in a hurry.

d

Danny,let me ask you a question, if he had gone around the corner and taken his pants off, and then the sup saw him while driving by , could this fact be brought up at arbitration and even if it were, does it affect the case? If not, then what difference does it make if he did it two seconds after he was fired. You know more about this than I do, but at that moment, he wasn't just an employee off the clock, he was an ex employee leaving the ups workplace who might have very well been following the rule that when you leave the workplace you don't have the brown pants on. My opinion, he was John Q. Private Citizen at that point and as long as his actions as a private citizen didn't result in any citations, tickets or arrests, they have no bearing on the status of his retained employment with UPS or with this case which is simply about working as directed. Whaddya think?

 

[dilligaf]

Dill

With your posts and position on the subject duly noted, it is not if you or I have a problem with it, it is if an arbitrator has a problem with it. And speaking on what I have noticed when in the presence of the arbitrators, he can kiss his job goodbye. That type of behavior on top of insubordination IMHO is the kiss of death if it gets to arbitration.

His only hope is that UPS will agree to allow him back to work. If they want rid of him, he just handed them his job on a silver platter.

Yeah, he might have made a statement by taking his clothes off, but that action overshadowed his refusal to follow instructions. Both in the conversation here, and betcha at the hearings to follow.

UPS will have a field day passing him off as a nut job at the panel, where if he would have kept his pants on, they would not have the option.

That reminds me. Nothing like dropping your pants on road to get a pink slip in a hurry.

d

I know Danny.

 

[dilligaf]

OK--that's it--I'm going.

Good for you. So we can expect to see your name on the list soon?

 

[pickup]

Danny,let me ask you a question, if he had gone around the corner and taken his pants off, and then the sup saw him while driving by , could this fact be brought up at arbitration and even if it were, does it affect the case? If not, then what difference does it make if he did it two seconds after he was fired. You know more about this than I do, but at that moment, he wasn't just an employee off the clock, he was an ex employee leaving the ups workplace who might have very well been following the rule that when you leave the workplace you don't have the brown pants on. My opinion, he was John Q. Private Citizen at that point and as long as his actions as a private citizen didn't result in any citations, tickets or arrests, they have no bearing on the status of his retained employment with UPS or with this case which is simply about working as directed. Whaddya think?

The law is reason free from passion -aristotle(don't take him too seriously, I think he had the earth at the center of the universe , with everything in it revolving around the earth.)

 

[dannyboy]

First, I would bet that the conversation went something like this.....

I told you to double park.

And I said it was illegal to do so.

Do it anyway.

I'm not going to, its illegal.

Well then you are fired for insubordination and failure to follow instructions.

Well then, I'm out of here if I'm fired, I'm going home

Not in your browns your not, you know the rules.

really, that so? No problem, here you go, see you later.

Now, the issue lies not that he is on or off the clock. The issue is would someone that is logical enough to refuse to double park, then going to take his pants off?

Nope.

And there lies the rub.

UPS will portray him as a nut job, one has refused to follow instructions and then resorts to acting out.

IF it can be handled in house, the driver will get/or should get his job back. If it goes all the way, no chance.

And with 30 years in, he would be expected to know that an on road does not have the power to fire him, period. So now you are logically looking at job abandonment.

So really you have an employee that all he is wanting to do is make a point to UPS. That he does not have to do something the sup tells him to do that is illegal.

But he goes about it the wrong way. And this action as is usual, takes the focus off of UPS and their wrong doing, and focuses all the attention to what he ended up doing. Which was also very very wrong.

So basically the company could fire him for several issues.

Job abandonment because he had a reasonable expectation of knowing the sup did not have the authority to fire him as well as anyone that is on road is on the clock until such a time as management has relieved him of his duty and is taken back to the building(notice that there is a lack of evidence in this area), he just walked off.

Secondly, for failure to follow instructions, or insubordination.

Thirdly, for the very stupid action of taking his clothes off in public.

Only the second one might be defensible at a hearing.

I think what you have here is a sup pushing the buttons, and a very stupid driver that let him.

Now, you bring up the point that the disrobing in public was done not as a UPS employee, but as a private citizen. I would refer you to the job abandonment issue.

A hard core management team would make it stick, he was a UPS driver at the time he took off his clothes, he knew that the sup did not have the authority to fire him, and for sure not on the spot, and that he acted out by quiting and taking his clothes off in public, something that is frowned upon by UPS.

Please note, I dont mention that management asked him to do anything wrong, and will down play that down all the way to the last hearing.

As a steward, BA etc, how then do you defend against that?

That they asked him to do something wrong? Like I said, he took the focus off what UPS did wrong, and his actions overshadowed everything else.

And if it goes before an arbitrator, he is gone.

d

 

[pickup]

Thanks for the explanation, danny > if it does go to arbitration , I would love to be a fly on the wall .

 

[dannyboy]

Me too. As a steward, I would want it settled way before then, and hope that his management team does not have a burr in their crack because of what he did.

Bottom line which gets so many in trouble, his reaction to their action took all the focus off their action and placed it on his reaction.

Never a smart way to conduct yourself.

That all being said, it is funny in a way, and the temptation was there several times as a driver here.

d

 

[tieguy]

As far as the statement made by walking off without pants, that will be the cause of his dismissal if it is actually upheld. Very unprofessional. And a case can be made that the driver at the time was combative and illogical in his dealings with the sup. He really hurt himself by acting out like a three year old. While funny, very childish.

d

I have to admit I did not think this one through. I've seen a lot of bizarre things in my time. A person taking his/her uniform off and walking away in thier underwear is not on the list. In stopping to think about it some more I have to agree.

The driver could have argued that he was asked to do something unsafe or illegal and possibly gotten his job back. Taking his clothes off will be the kiss of death in this case if the company pursues it. The guy refusing his sups instructions and taking his clothes off indicates this guy is someone the company will be more then happy to lose.

 

[brownrodster]

At first this seemed like an absurd suggestion and then I remembered this was in San Francisco. Who knows?

why, do you think it's right to instruct someone to break the law then fire them when they refuse to do so? Seems like perfectly logical grounds for a law suit.

 

[brownrodster]

I would have to question the mental state of an employee, who in public view takes off his UPS pants and walks away in his underwear? Why not give the shirt back as well. What kind of statement was he trying to make? And why put yourself at risk for possibly indecent exposure, if someone had spotted him casually walking his route? I'm guessing, he had to get back to his personal car somehow. And probably not by public transportation.

How will he ever face his customers again, if he gets his job back?

You sound like you're 150 years old. Are you serious?

 

[Catatonic]

why, do you think it's right to instruct someone to break the law then fire them when they refuse to do so? Seems like perfectly logical grounds for a law suit.

It depends on the locale ... here in Jawja that dawg ain't gonna hunt.