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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 97064" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Just Browsing,</p><p> </p><p>Pal, before you come at me you better take the time to read through this forum and learn more about me and my past comments on this specific issue, especially when you don't even have the guts to openly join like the rest of us. Instead of "Just Browsing" you need to do "More Reading"!</p><p> </p><p>Would I like a $20 per hour raise? Sure and I'd be damn happy to take it but I also know getting that is also like winning the lottery. Would I be happy if UPS came to the rescue? Sure, absolutely, hell I'd throw a party and celebrate but like winning the lottery when you don't buy a ticket, what are the chances that will happen? Now you starting to figure it out?</p><p> </p><p>Now go down and read the lower portion of my post where my choices would entail giving up my raises or giving up my vacation time to help resolve this. Now in your little world, maybe you think raises and vactions are nothing but gifts from UPS but it's actually as much a part of your compensation as your weekly paycheck is. Learn some things about how business works and the total costs of business and that aspect will be glaringly obvious. To simplify, it is your money in exchange for your labor! Just as much as the gas in your car or the groceries on your table is your's after you paid for it, so is the money and benefits you derive from your labor.</p><p> </p><p>Now since you just browse and don't read, I'll better explain it to you. First off, I want to scrap the entire pension system as we know it, give me a lumpsum payoff from CS that I can roll into my 401k and then from here on all "MY" money that UPS transfers to CS for retirement would henceforth be moved into my 401k plan. However, that is not gonna happen so what are the alternatives?</p><p> </p><p>Like I said in my post had you read it, if you can show me how it would save and restore the plan to where it was I would be happy to do one of the 2 following. Give up "my money" that would have been in the form of a raise or give up "my money" in the form of the option week or vacation week to pay for this. I'd even give up monies from a past raise if you could show this. Now all of the above solutions have to do with me giving up "my money" not UPS giving up "it's" money unless you are under the illusion that all things are UPS and that our individual labor is nothing and the weekly paycheck is only charity on the part of UPS. Some folks have that mentality but then looking at some UPSers, even a few management types, I have to agree. LOL!</p><p> </p><p>I wholeheartedly agree that by our collective actions in 97' that we gave up any right to look to UPS to correct this problem and I'm sure that comment won't set well with some folks either but that is what I believe. That's also why I never said it other than the wishful comparsion to winning the lottery. It's our problem to fix and once we fix it then it's another issue from then on IMO. Also I stated that I would be against forcing UPSers in jurisdictions with healthy plans to be forced into the same deal as we are nor would I expect PTers to have to make these choices. In fact, I think it unfair to the PTers that their bennies were cut if for no other reason than for an agreement between the company and the union for the company plan to never be better for the PTers than the union controlled FTer plan. I happen to "suspect" that to be the case but don't know for sure. </p><p> </p><p>As to the mismanagement and who gets the blame, no arguement from me but I will add in one factor in the blame column. UPS does get a little bit of blame to because I do feel they were aware of the train wreck and thus one of the factors of their actions in 97'. Now in defense of UPS, I think labor law has handcuffed them from making direct comments to us as to what they see but at the same time they understoood that their effort to scuttle the strike of 97' with their plan could force the union to raise benefit payouts that would thus accelerate the problem. I don't think UPS deserves a majority of the blame at all but they aren't completely blameless either. </p><p> </p><p>Now APWA. First off, I like the idea someone has the guts to think outside the box and ask those what if questions that need to be asked, but APWA isn't the answer either the the very same worthless, lazy, no goods that allowed the IBT to run amuck will also let APWA do the same in time. Who am I speaking of? Look in any mirror and yep I see the same thing when I look! The real culprits in this whole deal, the one's who really deserve all the blame and in fact the one's who should have to pay to fix the problem since they sat back and let it happen all because "WE" were to lazy, or to busy to oversee the very thing we should have been overseeing all along. The enemy is us, we are the ones really to blame in all of this because we failed in our duty to take part, look and be knowledgable of what is going on. The only reason we are where we are is because we got lazy and entrusted someone else to do the job for us. The sad truth is the only reason the IBT ain't working is because we've sat back and let the lowest form dominate and control it. The same in time will happen to the APWA as well.</p><p> </p><p>Now there you go!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 97064, member: 2189"] Just Browsing, Pal, before you come at me you better take the time to read through this forum and learn more about me and my past comments on this specific issue, especially when you don't even have the guts to openly join like the rest of us. Instead of "Just Browsing" you need to do "More Reading"! Would I like a $20 per hour raise? Sure and I'd be damn happy to take it but I also know getting that is also like winning the lottery. Would I be happy if UPS came to the rescue? Sure, absolutely, hell I'd throw a party and celebrate but like winning the lottery when you don't buy a ticket, what are the chances that will happen? Now you starting to figure it out? Now go down and read the lower portion of my post where my choices would entail giving up my raises or giving up my vacation time to help resolve this. Now in your little world, maybe you think raises and vactions are nothing but gifts from UPS but it's actually as much a part of your compensation as your weekly paycheck is. Learn some things about how business works and the total costs of business and that aspect will be glaringly obvious. To simplify, it is your money in exchange for your labor! Just as much as the gas in your car or the groceries on your table is your's after you paid for it, so is the money and benefits you derive from your labor. Now since you just browse and don't read, I'll better explain it to you. First off, I want to scrap the entire pension system as we know it, give me a lumpsum payoff from CS that I can roll into my 401k and then from here on all "MY" money that UPS transfers to CS for retirement would henceforth be moved into my 401k plan. However, that is not gonna happen so what are the alternatives? Like I said in my post had you read it, if you can show me how it would save and restore the plan to where it was I would be happy to do one of the 2 following. Give up "my money" that would have been in the form of a raise or give up "my money" in the form of the option week or vacation week to pay for this. I'd even give up monies from a past raise if you could show this. Now all of the above solutions have to do with me giving up "my money" not UPS giving up "it's" money unless you are under the illusion that all things are UPS and that our individual labor is nothing and the weekly paycheck is only charity on the part of UPS. Some folks have that mentality but then looking at some UPSers, even a few management types, I have to agree. LOL! I wholeheartedly agree that by our collective actions in 97' that we gave up any right to look to UPS to correct this problem and I'm sure that comment won't set well with some folks either but that is what I believe. That's also why I never said it other than the wishful comparsion to winning the lottery. It's our problem to fix and once we fix it then it's another issue from then on IMO. Also I stated that I would be against forcing UPSers in jurisdictions with healthy plans to be forced into the same deal as we are nor would I expect PTers to have to make these choices. In fact, I think it unfair to the PTers that their bennies were cut if for no other reason than for an agreement between the company and the union for the company plan to never be better for the PTers than the union controlled FTer plan. I happen to "suspect" that to be the case but don't know for sure. As to the mismanagement and who gets the blame, no arguement from me but I will add in one factor in the blame column. UPS does get a little bit of blame to because I do feel they were aware of the train wreck and thus one of the factors of their actions in 97'. Now in defense of UPS, I think labor law has handcuffed them from making direct comments to us as to what they see but at the same time they understoood that their effort to scuttle the strike of 97' with their plan could force the union to raise benefit payouts that would thus accelerate the problem. I don't think UPS deserves a majority of the blame at all but they aren't completely blameless either. Now APWA. First off, I like the idea someone has the guts to think outside the box and ask those what if questions that need to be asked, but APWA isn't the answer either the the very same worthless, lazy, no goods that allowed the IBT to run amuck will also let APWA do the same in time. Who am I speaking of? Look in any mirror and yep I see the same thing when I look! The real culprits in this whole deal, the one's who really deserve all the blame and in fact the one's who should have to pay to fix the problem since they sat back and let it happen all because "WE" were to lazy, or to busy to oversee the very thing we should have been overseeing all along. The enemy is us, we are the ones really to blame in all of this because we failed in our duty to take part, look and be knowledgable of what is going on. The only reason we are where we are is because we got lazy and entrusted someone else to do the job for us. The sad truth is the only reason the IBT ain't working is because we've sat back and let the lowest form dominate and control it. The same in time will happen to the APWA as well. Now there you go! [/QUOTE]
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