EDD putting Commits in Load?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by scratch, Jun 6, 2008.

  1. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    I am wondering if this is going on everywhere or just some glitch in my Center.

    Yesterday, we got out of the building a little late because of a delayed flight.
    I pulled EDD, and I couldn't find one of my 10:30 Commits. It was on the Commit List, just not loaded in the 1000 Section where it should be. After much looking and waiting, I called my OnCar and was told to leave without it. I had another NDA in the same neighborhood as the missing one, and this is when I noticed that EDD had the missing package in the Commit List, but the sequence number was 2928 instead of a low 1000 number. I looked at the end of the 2000 Section, and sure enough, there it was, loaded in with the rest of the ground. My PAS Supe was puzzled by this too.

    Today, I had another one. I understand that one advantage of EDD is that we are to deliver NDA and Ground together. The early version would put the stop in the 1000 Section, then I had to scroll the Whole List to figure out where EDD put the Ground Stop on that particular day. I am just wondering if the Commits are now being loaded in the Load with Ground so we can pull all the packages off from the same shelf instead of two different places.
  2. upsdude

    upsdude Well-Known Member

    We go back and forth. Currently all the NDA's are loaded in the 1000 section and shown at the top of "EDD". We're about due for that to change back to the method you're seeing now. According to my center manager, IE makes the change.
  3. Mike Hawk

    Mike Hawk New Member

    I think the computer will try to guess if you can make it without breaking trace, sometimes my floor/rear door stops have NDA's mixed in, sometimes they are in the 1000 section. I also see it with NDA's in the 2/1000 ground sections
  4. outta hours

    outta hours Active Member

    Makes me happy that I have no commit time. This all sounds very confusing.
  5. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    makes me happy i don't have PAS.
  6. browniehound

    browniehound Well-Known Member

    Scratch, those packages were loaded there on purpose. About 2 months ago we got a PCM about the "on time network" and we will be seeing airs PALED to section other than the low "1000's" The will be PALED throughout the 1000's and in the front of the 2000 and 3000 section.

    I have this to say: the person who implemented this plan should be fired immediately. I don't know much about the logistics of the "on time network", but I know one thing. This one thing is we are going to have many service failures due to NDA packages being PALED and loaded in the high 1000's, 2000' and 3000's.

    Seriously, what are these people thinking? It would be great if you could just go to the PAL area of the truck and select the package. The problem is, most of our loads are too jacked to put every package in its exact place.

    In my mind it simply comes down to this: all NDA should be segragated and loaded in 1 area, just as we are told to do with our pick-up volume. I just don't see the need to load NDA packages in the 2000 and 3000 section.

    For one, it confuses the preloader. He sees a NDA paled for 2003 and is afraid to put it there because its a NDA. In theory the driver should find it because the DIAD tells him its there. The problem is, most of us drivers can't step through the bulk head door and look for the package because our load-plans have it so the package are jammed to the front of the truck!

    Now, if our airs were just segragated and left at the back of our truck we would have much less service failures. Instead, UPS has to place these packages in 3 different areas of the truck to "save us time" ?? Good Grief!
    The only thing this plan accomplishes is more searching, digging, looking (call it what you want) for air packages!

    UPS created a method that requires us to look(dig is more like it) for our NDA, when 5 years ago all of my NDA were in a tote behind my truck that I simply lifted and put behind my bulk-head door. I took 2 minutes and put these NDA's in order and then delivered them.

    Now, we must go digging through A load to find our NDA and hopefully find them all. Why did UPS do this?
  7. Cementups

    Cementups Box Monkey

    mine are sometimes in my 1's and 2's. Unfortunatly for me, most of my airs are not in the early part of my trace. Good thing my area is all noon commits.
  8. LeddySS98

    LeddySS98 Member

    I do my RDR and RDL as my first couple stops daily but they are quite a ways into the trace so all the air for those stops is pal'd to the 1000 section... Where as the College I deliver to is pretty much where my trace starts, and it's on FL3... but I go there AFTER I have all my other air off first because I have to sort through the college load and deliver it to 12 different buildings on campus (20-30 min).. but the air for the college gets pal'd to FL3...

    A good preloader will catch all this and put the RDL/RDR airs in the back and the FL3 Air up on the 1000 shelf... but every now and then I get a new guy to load and it makes for a crappy start in my day!
  9. Johney

    Johney Well-Known Member

    That has happened here on occasion and I was told that the computer thinks you can make it to your 2000 section by 10:30. Our dispatch guy knows how to change it back to the right way. As far as finding other pkgs for the same stop it should show on the right of the address.Like this in the commit screen- 1030 123 Main st 1-2 meaning you have 1 nda and 2 other pkgs. If so then hit the Details button it will show the other sequence number instead of scrolling down.
  10. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Scratch, our loaders are instructed not to load any NDA and to wait for us to get on the belt so that we can go through them, compare them to what is in EDD and to put them in the car where we want and so that we know where they are. The only NDA that I ask my loader to load is WalMart and Sams, which are my 1st and 2nd stops, respectively (unless there is a feeder at WalMart in which case I go to Sams first). This was a directive from our center manager as we were having a problem with NDAs being found in load, just as you described, and being delivered late.
  11. The center dispatch supervisor tells the system where to load each service level in the car - not IE. Having said that, the strategy should be to load as much air with the ground as possible. If a driver can typically walk through their car at the start of their day then all air, ground, and saver should be loaded together throughout the load. The EDD commit list should be looked at first thing and then often after that to determine what commit packages are on the load. The EDD list will tell the driver where the package is loaded. If a loader isn't loading the car properly then that's where the system needs to be fixed. Sounds like many people have given up on training loaders to put out a good load.

    Right now the majority of our air is loaded in the 1000 sections separate from the ground. BUT - we deliver the ground along with the air for most of our air stops. That means that you're having to get packages for the same stops from multiple areas of the car. Doesn't make much sense.

    Please have mercy on me.
  12. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    Most of our preloaders don't load the air in their trucks. Regardless of what the sequence numbes are. We occasionally have NDAs with 2000 or 3000 seguence numbers so those will sometimes get loaded because the loaders won't notice they are NDAs. The dispatch supervisor can, and should, fix this problem. Another problem we've been having is two different stops being assigned to RDR or RDL. The loader doesn't notice that two stops are assigned the same location so they end up being mixed together. Again.....the dispatch sup can, and should, fix this problem.
  13. BigBrownSanta

    BigBrownSanta New Member

    Why would you deliver ground with air? If the company wanted you to deliver ground with air, they would PAL the ground to section 1 not PAL the air to sections 2 and 3. That makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe P-man can explain the logic behind that decision...

    In my center, if you deliver any ground with air and you cannot find all the packages, you have to duplicate the stop when you return to deliver the rest of the ground. Because of that and the fact that I have very little confidence in my preloader, I deliver air only. At first, the consignees were upset about it, but after I explained it to them, they understood. They thought it was silly, but they understood.
  14. BrownSuit

    BrownSuit Active Member

    Operationally, so that you aren't going back to the location a second time and therefore not over allowed. It cuts out a stop, cutting down the cost to serve and ideally gets you back to the building sooner at night.

    Also so that the commercial customers receive their ground as early as possible in the day. Yes I know, if they wanted it early, they would have sent it air, however it is a HUGE selling point.

    Also, you don't have somebody coming and bothering you multiple times a day with packages. While it is the same driver, it defeats some of the selling points against using FedEx with multiple drivers showing up at different times to deliver.

    This would only be a problem if you have so many commits that adding Ground Packages would keep you from making all the commits. That all is going to depend on the route. That's part of why the Dispatch Sup is the one making those decisions. You could have the city center, the next person could have the mall, the next route over could be Industrial, the next a neighborhood. Whether or not to mix them into the load will likely be different for each scenario.

    If you are being prompted to deliver the Ground with the Air and aren't doing so, you may risk getting called on a duplicate stop. If you made an attempt to deliver the ground and had a package lost somewhere in the mix because of a bad load, you can at least go back and say "I tried".
  15. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Why wouldn't you?

    If time permits, I try to get as much of my ground off as I am delivering my NDA. I don't get a ton of air (usually 5-6 stops but as many as 10) and if we hit the road on time I can usually get my first 3 bulk stops off (Sams, WalMart and MBE) along with all of my NDA del on time. We do have an air driver who is used when there is enough volume to justify it.

    If I were to follow your method of just delivering NDA and then going back to deliver ground, I would have to go back to both Sams and WalMart, and we all know how much fun that can be, trying to get on the dock at WalMart.

    Delivering NDA and ground together is the most efficient method but requires attention to detail, both in checking the commit list in EDD and keeping an eye on the clock. The warning in the DIAD, while it is annoying, does help as it gives me a 20 min "heads-up" on my commits.

    I can't recall the last time that I had a late NDA.
  16. Because stopping at a customer's location one time and delivering all their packages together from the same truck is one thing we can do that FedEx can't. With the price of gas these days it's very costly to be driving to the same stop multiple times. Every time you deliver ground and air together you should feel good about one-upping the competition.
    Ideally the whole car is set up in stop for stop order. The idea is to use the commit list in the DIAD to determine how best to work in the commit stops and know where the packages are loaded on the car. Sometimes the air has to go in the 1000 section for bulk routes, etc, where you can't get through the cars in the morning. Your dispatcher could put air and ground in the beginning of the load if it's a daily occurrence.

    When you use duplicate stop all you're losing is the stop allowance (less than 2 minutes). You still get credit for the miles and packages. The duplicate stop thing is about getting your stop count right...it allows your dispatcher to better plan the right amount of stops on the car. Don't give up on your preloader, be a squeaky wheel with your manager about it.

    I agree with the consignees. Multiple deliveries from the same vehicle is something that should be corrected.
  17. BigBrownSanta

    BigBrownSanta New Member

    It would appear I stirred up a hornet's nest today. Let me try to explain myself. Bear in mind I am not trying to argue, just trying to show my thinking on this.

    I'm not sure how you can say I will be over allowed by going back to deliver ground. The second delivery will have a fresh new allowance. I save time by just snatching the air off the shelf and delivering it, rather than spending time searching and digging through my load to find all the ground packages. If I run my ground in trace order, then the ground delivery will also be quicker because the previous deliveries will not be in the way when I search.

    No argument here. I agree 100%. If the company wants this then they should load the ground in section 1 so that I don't have to search and dig for it.

    Are you saying the board will prompt me to deliver the ground and air at the same time? If so, that hasn't started in my center yet.

    I wasn't talking about bulk stops. I was talking about stops that are in the load that you have to search for. Bulk stops are segregated seperately and usually easy to get to. And, I agree, I would hate to have to go back to walmart a second time.

    The same here.:peaceful:

    I understand how the duplicate stop works. Why should I lose a stop because I can't find one ground package? What's the difference between delivering air seperately and ground seperately versus delivering air and ground but I can't find the last ground package until later. I still make 2 stops either way, except that ups won't allow me to take credit for the stop if I've already attempted to deliver the ground on the first stop. (I hope I explained that clearly.)

    I think it's because ups doesn't trust the drivers and thinks that some will intentionally leave one package off and then take credit for 2 stops.

    Ups could fix this easily, but they don't. I wonder why? All they have to do is pal the ground to section 1 and allow me to deliver it with the air without wasting time searching for it. Problem is solved.
  18. BrownSuit

    BrownSuit Active Member

    You weren't arguing, which was actually refreshing around here :happy-very:

    Every center is setup differently, it may be that they started something at your center and just haven't finished it. Surprise Surprise.

    It may also be that the dispatch Sup doesn't entirely know what's going on.

    I think the end game is to get everybody working like this at somepoint just to cut down stops, save time, and more importantly right now, money from fuel.

    If your board isn't telling you to deliver the ground packages, then it doesn't sound like an issue right now.

    If you know you have ground going to same address, even if your board doesn't tell you, don't feel like a Monkey and wait to deliver the ground. If you have time, do it.

    As has been mentioned before it is a huge competitive advantage over the competition.

    Also with your customers who say "wow you were able to start delivering the ground with the air" say "Yeah, It's UPS, it's what we do. Say do you use anybody else for your shipping?" "Can I have somebody get in touch with you to see what we can do to take care of all your shipping?"

    And while your taking your wife out to eat, or the kids to the mall because you have more time at the end of your day, enjoy the nice Amex card.
  19. BigBrownSanta

    BigBrownSanta New Member

    Are you talking about the commit screen having the # of air packages in one column and the # of ground packages in the second column? If so, then it is set up that way in my board. I thought you were saying that the diad will prompt you (or tell you) to deliver both at the same time.
  20. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure I can adequately explain, but I'll try. This is one of those things where the answer depends on the situation. That's why there are multiple ways to do this.

    First, in almost all situations, its cheaper to deliver the ground while you deliver the air. The PDS should dispatch the services together.

    When this happens, you will see in one row in EDD the summary for all the deliveries for the address. With this example, you'd see:

    1030 2 + 6

    This means that you have 2 pacakges for a 1030 commit, and 6 more with later commits.

    If you see the air on one line in EDD and the ground in another, the PDS did not do what was taught. This situation should exist only when we do NOT want them delivered together.

    That's the dispatch side. The next piece is the handling instruction.

    The system looks at all the possible sequences that could be on the car based on the dispatch plan. It also looks at the trace. It gives each sequence a position which is the shelf assignment. It starts out in trace order.

    The PDS can see this and adjust it as is needed. Packages can be put on the floor, by the rear door, moved to a different shelf, etc.

    The last piece is the handling instruction for the air. If the air and ground can be delivered in trace, the air is generally placed in the load, in trace. The system tries to keep air from being buried in the load however. For instance an air package on the PM side of the trace.

    The PDS can adjust this very quickly. They can say that all or none of the air should be loaded in trace (with the ground). They can say how far into the trace the air should be loaded with the ground.

    So the instructions are flexible to match the situation.

    When the system moves the air out of the load, it puts it in the front section (1000 section). This does not mean that you should not deliver the air in trace. It also does not mean that ground and air should not be delivered together. The air is moved just so that it doesn't get buried.

    When we were taught this, it was explained that there are many different scenarios, so that's why its so flexible. We've had very good luck modifying this to suit the situation.