Everybody better pack a lunch.

[Dookiebrowns]

So, as an example:
You break trace and drive the PC for 1/4 mile and stop and turn off the PC, obtain the DIAD and "Clock-out" to start lunch?
Is that correct?

No that is not correct. They are saying complete the last stop, and then code break. Doesn't matter whether you are staying put or not.

 

[rod]

As far as not running the motor and heater while on break or lunch when it's cold- it's not going to happen with me.

I see it all now. You're out in the sticks delivering your route, its 20 below zero and the wind is blowing 25 mph. Its lunch time so you shut your truck off and block some customers driveway because your break starts as soon as you hit the stop complete button. You set there freezing your off for your half hour break. Now you hit the key and what do you know- your diesel won't start. UPS can be so funny sometimes. Just make sure the customer don't see you taking a piss out the door onto his driveway half way through your break. I'll let you in on a little secret---- I don't think my PC was ever shut off during the day from about Nov. thru March unless I was parked on a hill. (That encludes all the times I had a rider in the winter)(they liked to stay warm also and never once had one tell me to shut it off). One more thing- they tried a few times to get us rural drivers to pack a lunch. You want to see a funny look on someones face just stop your PC out in the middle of nowhere and eat your sack lunch in front of who ever is riding with you- they never pack a lunch.

 

[soberups]

It is unfortunate that the Federal Government and the Teamsters have put the drivers in this position. Common sense and a sense of integrity allowed flexibility in this area until this law was passed.

Bullsh%t

Common sense and integrity allowed flexibiity in this area until Telematics was installed and some brainless bean-counter from IE decided we all
needed to be micromanaged down to the gnats ass. The Federal govt and the Teamsters have nothing to do with it.

 

[MC4YOU2]

Bullsh%t

Common sense and integrity allowed flexibiity in this area until Telematics was installed and some brainless bean-counter from IE decided we all
needed to be micromanaged down to the gnats ass. The Federal govt and the Teamsters have nothing to do with it.

I agree. It's like mgmt thought this nugget up because we were getting along so great with them in all the other areas.

 

[Catatonic]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster
It is unfortunate that the Federal Government and the Teamsters have put the drivers in this position. Common sense and a sense of integrity allowed flexibility in this area until this law was passed.

Bullsh%t

Common sense and integrity allowed flexibility in this area until Telematics was installed and some brainless bean-counter from IE decided we all
needed to be micromanaged down to the gnats ass. The Federal govt and the Teamsters have nothing to do with it.

Might be something to the Telematics.
The "Don't ask, don't tell" common sense approach was working for decades.
Once Telematics was implemented, it "Told" and management was then aware and had to come up with guidelines that showed UPS was making a good attempt at complying with the Federal Law.
Big Brother strikes again.

 

[trplnkl]

Might be something to the Telematics.
The "Don't ask, don't tell" common sense approach was working for decades.
Once Telematics was implemented, it "Told" and management was then aware and had to come up with guidelines that showed UPS was making a good attempt at complying with the Federal Law.
Big Brother strikes again.

UPS only cares if we comply with any law if there is a chance we will get caught or if it fits in with UPS's other "rules".

In the OP, the first two sentences of the memo that DB posted are contradictory unless you can stop the truck immediately when breaking trace.

Break starts as soon as driver breaks trace, and ends when driver is back on trace. Break time must be coded when the vehicle is stopped and the engine is shut off.

If you have to drive any distance from your trace to take meal time, your truck can't be moved. The yoyo that wrote this memo has no sense, period.

Also, if I remember correctly from another thread about trace, as long as you are making the stops in order you are not technically breaking trace regardless of how many miles you drive.


If we want to be honest about this situation it's clear that the new mandate (ok not so new, just revived) is not to comply with the Fed Law, the trace or any contractual rules. This is to make it harder for the driver to take a meal time at their choosing. The company wants to dictate how every second of the drivers paid day is spent and it damn well better be delivering or picking up packages. If the company could get away with it they would try to get out of paying the driver for time spent driving from one stop to the next.

 

[Catatonic]

UPS only cares if we comply with any law if there is a chance we will get caught or if it fits in with UPS's other "rules".
That seems like a reasonable observation and deduction.

In the OP, the first two sentences of the memo that DB posted are contradictory unless you can stop the truck immediately when breaking trace.
Definitely... only the second makes sense and complies with the law.

If you have to drive any distance from your trace to take meal time, your truck can't be moved. The yoyo that wrote this memo has no sense, period.
I don't think Dookie (I really enjoy typing that) is a yoyo ... I think he paraphrased the memo and did not get it quite right. I agree the two are contradictory (as stated earlier).
One of the possible explanations is that the first sentence is "paid break" and the second sentence is "unpaid lunch break". At this point, I'm not sure exactly what the memo said.

Also, if I remember correctly from another thread about trace, as long as you are making the stops in order you are not technically breaking trace regardless of how many miles you drive.
Threading on integrity issue here.

If we want to be honest about this situation it's clear that the new mandate (ok not so new, just revived) is not to comply with the Fed Law, the trace or any contractual rules. This is to make it harder for the driver to take a meal time at their choosing. The company wants to dictate how every second of the drivers paid day is spent and it damn well better be delivering or picking up packages. If the company could get away with it they would try to get out of paying the driver for time spent driving from one stop to the next.
Could be.

This has been a good thread and I don't think there is any big disagreement amongst any of the posts relating to the core premise which is that:
A person's lunch break starts when they stop activities related to their job and start activities related to their taking lunch.

When I drove, that was how I entered time on my time card and even today, when I get up from my chair to go out to lunch, my lunch starts at that point, not when I arrive at the restaurant and get out of my car.

 

[705red]

This has been a good thread and I don't think there is any big disagreement amongst any of the posts relating to the core premise which is that:
A person's lunch break starts when they stop activities related to their job and start activities related to their taking lunch.

When I drove, that was how I entered time on my time card and even today, when I get up from my chair to go out to lunch, my lunch starts at that point, not when I arrive at the restaurant and get out of my car.[/QUOTE]

The bottom line is lunch starts when you pull the ruck over and turn it off! It does not start when you brake trace or finish your deliveries and start driving to lunch.

I start my lunch everyday when I arrive at the location Im taking lunch at and it continues for my 1 hour lunch and my 10 minute paid break. I than drive back to my route on the clock since I am a D.O.T regulated driver.

I use the real time button to document my lunch and break accurately.

 

[Catatonic]

I use the real time button to document my lunch and break accurately.

I use the easy button:

 

[Catatonic]

A person's lunch break starts when they stop activities related to their job and start activities related to their taking lunch.

When I drove, that was how I entered time on my time card and even today, when I get up from my chair to go out to lunch, my lunch starts at that point ... not when I arrive at the restaurant and get out of my car.[/QUOTE]

The bottom line is lunch starts when you pull the ruck over and turn it off! It does not start when you brake trace or finish your deliveries and start driving to lunch.

I start my lunch everyday when I arrive at the location Im taking lunch at and it continues for my 1 hour lunch and my 10 minute paid break. I than drive back to my route on the clock since I am a D.O.T regulated driver.

I guess we can agree to disagree on this.

If that is the Teamster's position, then I can certainly better understand why UPS is taking the stance they are taking.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

A person's lunch break starts when they stop activities related to their job and start activities related to their taking lunch.

When I drove, that was how I entered time on my time card and even today, when I get up from my chair to go out to lunch, my lunch starts at that point ... not when I arrive at the restaurant and get out of my car.[/QUOTE]



I guess we can agree to disagree on this.

If that is the Teamster's position, then I can certainly better understand why UPS is taking the stance they are taking.

There is a BIG difference between driving your personal car to a restraunt away from the building which is your office, or place of work. The UPS vehicle IS the place of work for drivers, package car drivers are ON THE JOB at any time they are driving the company vehicle. Think about it a minute, imagine all the scenarios, maybe you'll get it eventually.

 

[whiskey]

Hoax, the rules apply to all employees, not just DOT-regulated employees.

It's against the Law to urinate and/or defecate in public. You can't just step outside your package car and relieve yourself by the curb. You'll be arrested. You need a restroom.

Simple formula
DDcups1+DRbags2=23SPORH

 

[705red]

A person's lunch break starts when they stop activities related to their job and start activities related to their taking lunch.

When I drove, that was how I entered time on my time card and even today, when I get up from my chair to go out to lunch, my lunch starts at that point ... not when I arrive at the restaurant and get out of my car.[/QUOTE]



I guess we can agree to disagree on this.

If that is the Teamster's position, then I can certainly better understand why UPS is taking the stance they are taking.

The difference in disagreeing with this is thousands of dollars in fines for UPS for not following D.O.T regulations. You disagree and someone at UPS gets out the check book! Ups is not higher than the people that make the rules!

 

[cachsux]

They only THINK they are.

 

[1989]

This has been a good thread and I don't think there is any big disagreement amongst any of the posts relating to the core premise which is that:
A person's lunch break starts when they stop activities related to their job and start activities related to their taking lunch.

When I drove, that was how I entered time on my time card and even today, when I get up from my chair to go out to lunch, my lunch starts at that point, not when I arrive at the restaurant and get out of my car.[/QUOTE]

The bottom line is lunch starts when you pull the ruck over and turn it off!
Agree
It does not start when you brake trace or finish your deliveries and start driving to lunch.
Disagree...You are going up a slippery slope there.
I start my lunch everyday when I arrive at the location Im taking lunch at and it continues for my 1 hour lunch and my 10 minute paid break. I than drive back to my route on the clock since I am a D.O.T regulated driver.
The real question is how far do you go? And how long does it take each way?
I use the real time button to document my lunch and break accurately.
I think it's called the time stamp button.

 

[Catatonic]

There is a BIG difference between driving your personal car to a restraunt away from the building which is your office, or place of work. The UPS vehicle IS the place of work for drivers, package car drivers are ON THE JOB at any time they are driving the company vehicle. Think about it a minute, imagine all the scenarios, maybe you'll get it eventually.

I see the gray areas and I let my conscience and my sense of integrity guide my actions.
That is why, when I was driver, I started my lunch when I broke trace and started driving to where I was going to eat lunch and ended it when I picked my route back up where I left off (maybe not to the second but close within reason).
No one had to tell me this ... I just knew it from my sense of right and wrong.
I don't judge others on this ... I am responsible to and for myself.

 

[soberups]

I see the gray areas and I let my conscience and my sense of integrity guide my actions.
That is why, when I was driver, I started my lunch when I broke trace and started driving to where I was going to eat lunch and ended it when I picked my route back up where I left off (maybe not to the second but close within reason).
No one had to tell me this ... I just knew it from my sense of right and wrong.
I don't judge others on this ... I am responsible to and for myself.

When you were a driver the truck was not equipped with Telematics and you did not have some IE guy questioning why your truck might have gone 401 meters "off trace".

For the most part the method you described is fine and I agree with it. In most cases we should not be billing UPS for the non-productive time we spend driving the vehicle to a preferred lunch location if other suitable locations are available that are closer or on trace.

If, however, I am working as intructed...following your trace and meeting your service requirements (NDA by 1030, savers by 1500, no business deliveries between 1200-1300) and said trace puts me into an area with no suitable lunch or break/restroom facilities....then you will either let me drive your truck to a suitable location on your time or you will install and maintain some sort of toilet and handwash facilities in the vehicle or position them along the route.

Human beings need to poop, wash their hands, and eat...and no amount of IE micromanaging will ever change that fact.

 

[Catatonic]

Human beings need to poop, wash their hands, and eat...and no amount of IE micromanaging will ever change that fact.

That explains what I overheard some IE guys talking about ... something about robots not needing to eat, pee and poop.

 

[705red]

The bottom line is lunch starts when you pull the ruck over and turn it off!
Agree
It does not start when you brake trace or finish your deliveries and start driving to lunch.
Disagree...You are going up a slippery slope there.
If the wheels are moving than you are considered on the clock! There is no slippery slope on this one it is spelled out clearly under the link I provided and copied.
I start my lunch everyday when I arrive at the location Im taking lunch at and it continues for my 1 hour lunch and my 10 minute paid break. I than drive back to my route on the clock since I am a D.O.T regulated driver.
The real question is how far do you go? And how long does it take each way?

I want to say somewhere around a mile each way and 3 to 5 minutes each way. My route has no where to stop and eat. I have 4 streets all industial in an industrial park, I drive to the closest area where there are restaurants to eat, wash up and use the rest room.

I use the real time button to document my lunch and break accurately.
I think it's called the time stamp button.

Here they call it real time and encourage us to use it which I do.

 

[1989]

Here they call it real time and encourage us to use it which I do.

Yes, no chance of falseification there.