Express / Ground merger

FedExMan

Well-Known Member
Nothing is official this is speculation.
I think it will happen sooner than we think. I just don't know how they will go about doing it. We express become contractors or will ground have to be rehired as official employees?
If they make ground employees of FedEx they will have to buy a whole new fleet of ground trucks. If they make express contractors they could sell their fleet to contractors.
Reasons that make me speculate this inevitable merger are.
1. Changing all colors to express orange
2. Eliminating FedEx home delivery
3. Changing ground tracking from 16 to 12 like express
4. No more over lapping FedEx trucks in same area
5. They like UPS system
6. All drivers will have p1, p2, xs, pups, and ground. It would mirror UPS profitable system
7. Customers are demanding it. It's too confusing for them to realize what driver is express or ground and most ship both ground and express daily
8. Stock would soar through the roof
9. Most women and older topped out people would leave because they never intended on working like a ups driver
10. I really don't think Frrd Smith would care about a union threat because 1 he would be able to afford it. 2. He doesn't think us drivers could get organized because of the volume we would be too busy / tired from the volume.
Just my thoughts feel free to agree or disagree
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
We've discussed this possibility in the past and it all came back to the same fundamental issues that can be summed up in three simple words, logistics, regulations and economics. It's never going to happen especially at a time when X is eyeballing the privatization of the air traffic control network. Fat Freddy has so much money that he's literally trying to buy the sky. The only way I can see your scenario playing out is some kind of cataclysmic geo/politico event such as a military showdown or the collapse of the global banking system that would require the passage of emergency legislation or the use of extraordinary executive powers. No question that it's a poor setup, one that's much more likely to collapse on it's own before outside events brings about any restructuring .
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
All depends on politics. I wave of union busting and deregulation could bring it about. 2 years ago I would have said "won't happen". Not sure now.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
All depends on politics. I wave of union busting and deregulation could bring it about. 2 years ago I would have said "won't happen". Not sure now.
I don't think Fedex is as worried about the unions after Freight's abysmal failure. They hardly got any locations to vote in the teamsters and the ones that did are decertified now. I could see a new CEO being much less weary of the teamsters and saying, "go ahead and try, we don't need the RLA."
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
Vehicles aren't a problem at all. Fedex would not need to buy a new fleet or buy contractors' vehicles. It is perfectly legal for a company to require that employees use their own vehicles, provided that the company still pays at least minimum wage plus OT, etc AFTER all vehicle expenses are reimbursed. The original 'contract' was determined to be an 'employment' contract, and the so-called contractors were determined to be employees almost everywhere. Fedex could use nearly the same contract, except for ensuring drivers are paid at least minimum wage after expenses. If fedex wanted to change without buying a fleet, I'm sure they would allow current drivers to purchase/rent/lease vehicles contractors currently own from those contractors, and those drivers could become employees of fedex instead of employees of contractors.

Fedex would certainly have a lot more liability if one of those vehicles was determined to be unfit and had caused an accident or a death. But they have insurance for that, and could perform tighter vehicle maintenance checks.Eventually, fedex could replace those older vehicles, and gradually own the entire fleet.

It would be difficult for fedex to use contractors for express, since express has a lot of time specific deliveries. That and the fact that fedex wants fedex drivers in uniforms and fedex vehicles as advertising the brand make it harder to legally use contractors for express.

I still think that at some point fedex will be found to be joint employers of drivers hired by 'contractors.' I think that limiting vehicles to only carrying fedex shipments while on fedex duty presents a legal issue to be determined at some future point. Another issue is requiring that contractors have a minimum number of areas/stops.Requiring that a so-called 'independent contractor' hire employees is more control, and if a 'contractor' want to hire sub'contractors to make deliveries, and do it legally, a truly independent business would be able to do so. Fedex still exercises an inordinate amount of control of the 'independent' businesses, and eventually it will come back on them.

Only as long as Fedex manages to keep these contractors largely satisfied can they continue to get away with the current system. They will be willing to fight individual contractors and settle cases occasionally, but eventually, the cost of keeping the current system will catch up to using an all-employee workforce.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Vehicles aren't a problem at all. Fedex would not need to buy a new fleet or buy contractors' vehicles. It is perfectly legal for a company to require that employees use their own vehicles, provided that the company still pays at least minimum wage plus OT, etc AFTER all vehicle expenses are reimbursed. The original 'contract' was determined to be an 'employment' contract, and the so-called contractors were determined to be employees almost everywhere. Fedex could use nearly the same contract, except for ensuring drivers are paid at least minimum wage after expenses. If fedex wanted to change without buying a fleet, I'm sure they would allow current drivers to purchase/rent/lease vehicles contractors currently own from those contractors, and those drivers could become employees of fedex instead of employees of contractors.

Fedex would certainly have a lot more liability if one of those vehicles was determined to be unfit and had caused an accident or a death. But they have insurance for that, and could perform tighter vehicle maintenance checks.Eventually, fedex could replace those older vehicles, and gradually own the entire fleet.

It would be difficult for fedex to use contractors for express, since express has a lot of time specific deliveries. That and the fact that fedex wants fedex drivers in uniforms and fedex vehicles as advertising the brand make it harder to legally use contractors for express.

I still think that at some point fedex will be found to be joint employers of drivers hired by 'contractors.' I think that limiting vehicles to only carrying fedex shipments while on fedex duty presents a legal issue to be determined at some future point. Another issue is requiring that contractors have a minimum number of areas/stops.Requiring that a so-called 'independent contractor' hire employees is more control, and if a 'contractor' want to hire sub'contractors to make deliveries, and do it legally, a truly independent business would be able to do so. Fedex still exercises an inordinate amount of control of the 'independent' businesses, and eventually it will come back on them.

Only as long as Fedex manages to keep these contractors largely satisfied can they continue to get away with the current system. They will be willing to fight individual contractors and settle cases occasionally, but eventually, the cost of keeping the current system will catch up to using an all-employee workforce.
The "East Coast" settlement required the payout to be conditional upon X being absolved of all claims up to April 30 2016 despite the fact that the years being litigated were 2001-2007. I believe that this will embolden X to return to the days when they could do whatever they damn well please in terms of what they require of "contractors" and how they are treated. Challenging days lie ahead for any contractor operating in an area that lacks population density, plenty of discretionary income and an abundance of cheap and dependable labor.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
1. Changing all colors to express orange
2. Eliminating FedEx home delivery
3. Changing ground tracking from 16 to 12 like express
4. No more over lapping FedEx trucks in same area
5. They like UPS system
6. All drivers will have p1, p2, xs, pups, and ground. It would mirror UPS profitable system
7. Customers are demanding it. It's too confusing for them to realize what driver is express or ground and most ship both ground and express daily
8. Stock would soar through the roof
9. Most women and older topped out people would leave because they never intended on working like a ups driver
10. I really don't think Frrd Smith would care about a union threat because 1 he would be able to afford it. 2. He doesn't think us drivers could get organized because of the volume we would be too busy / tired from the volume.

1,2,3: Meaningless.
4: Trucks overlap.
5: Says who?
6: Wouldn't mirror UPS system.
7: They aren't demanding it.
8, 9, 10: Silliness.

Confirmation bias.

Making Ground drivers employees of FedEx would defeat the purpose. Contracting out Express onroad operations impractical.
 

Oldfart

Well-Known Member
Nothing is official this is speculation.
I think it will happen sooner than we think. I just don't know how they will go about doing it. We express become contractors or will ground have to be rehired as official employees?
If they make ground employees of FedEx they will have to buy a whole new fleet of ground trucks. If they make express contractors they could sell their fleet to contractors.
Reasons that make me speculate this inevitable merger are.
1. Changing all colors to express orange
2. Eliminating FedEx home delivery
3. Changing ground tracking from 16 to 12 like express
4. No more over lapping FedEx trucks in same area
5. They like UPS system
6. All drivers will have p1, p2, xs, pups, and ground. It would mirror UPS profitable system
7. Customers are demanding it. It's too confusing for them to realize what driver is express or ground and most ship both ground and express daily
8. Stock would soar through the roof
9. Most women and older topped out people would leave because they never intended on working like a ups driver
10. I really don't think Frrd Smith would care about a union threat because 1 he would be able to afford it. 2. He doesn't think us drivers could get organized because of the volume we would be too busy / tired from the volume.
Just my thoughts feel free to agree or disagree
Stock is already near all time high. Has dropped a bit the last couple of weeks.

Profits are near record high and have shown steady improvement.

Salaries for topped out employees are getting better. Don't see droves of people leaving because of the workload. Most trucks in our station are about bulked out every day, not a whole lot of room for more freight to take on more stops.

If Fedex liked the UPS model, they would have mirrored it years ago.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
I don't think Fedex is as worried about the unions after Freight's abysmal failure. They hardly got any locations to vote in the teamsters and the ones that did are decertified now. I could see a new CEO being much less weary of the teamsters and saying, "go ahead and try, we don't need the RLA."
At the dawn of the NLRA the country was smack in the middle of the Great Depression. The legislation had real teeth in it as well as a rank and file who had absolutely nothing and therefore had nothing to lose . As a result they banded together out of sheer desperation. Today, the legislation has been weakened the rank and file is by and large saying......" Oh, we can't strike. We have the house payment, the car payment, the RV payment ,the vacation time share payment etc,etc." Easily obtained consumer credit and as a result people living way beyond their means never putting anything away in case they have to take a stand in defense of their own interests is the best friend Fat Freddy his CATO Institute pals along with other anti worker interests will ever have. No need to negotiate a compensation package, simply bump it up a little from time to time just enough to allow employees to get some more credit and bury themselves even deeper in debt.
 

Oldfart

Well-Known Member
At the dawn of the NLRA the country was smack in the middle of the Great Depression. The legislation had real teeth in it as well as a rank and file who had absolutely nothing and therefore had nothing to lose . As a result they banded together out of sheer desperation. Today, the legislation has been weakened the rank and file is by and large saying......" Oh, we can't strike. We have the house payment, the car payment, the RV payment ,the vacation time share payment etc,etc." Easily obtained consumer credit and as a result people living way beyond their means never putting anything away in case they have to take a stand in defense of their own interests is the best friend Fat Freddy his CATO Institute pals along with other anti worker interests will ever have. No need to negotiate a compensation package, simply bump it up a little from time to time just enough to allow employees to get some more credit and bury themselves even deeper in debt.
So you say it is Fedex fault that employees live beyond their means, have too many toys and have too much debt?
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
So you say it is Fedex fault that employees live beyond their means, have too many toys and have too much debt?
If it were not for the fact that you have recently returned from the Fedex Mind Control and Reeducation Academy you would have been able to clearly see the historical perspective of my comments which was centered on the fact that blue collar workers in general are not driven by the same desperation and economic conditions that existed back in the Great Depression but rather the temptation of cheap credit . While Smith does know that the burden created by cheap credit keeps blue collar America constrained and easier to control he's not the only person in the position of wealth and power who knows it and takes advantage of it. A work stoppage in the form of a contract expiration or efforts to organize requires planning and the compiling of economic reserves for what will become a test of wills and resources. It's common knowledge that many strikes ended prematurely when creditors started pounding on the doors of the rank and file. it's not a question of living beyond their means but rather living in the completely false sense of security that a good credit score provides while completely ignoring the dramatic and completely unforeseen turn of events that will invariably impact themselves upon the lives each and every one of us.
 

Oldfart

Well-Known Member
If it were not for the fact that you have recently returned from the Fedex Mind Control and Reeducation Academy you would have been able to clearly see the historical perspective of my comments which was centered on the fact that blue collar workers in general are not driven by the same desperation and economic conditions that existed back in the Great Depression but rather the temptation of cheap credit . While Smith does know that the burden created by cheap credit keeps blue collar America constrained and easier to control he's not the only person in the position of wealth and power who knows it and takes advantage of it. A work stoppage in the form of a contract expiration or efforts to organize requires planning and the compiling of economic reserves for what will become a test of wills and resources. It's common knowledge that many strikes ended prematurely when creditors started pounding on the doors of the rank and file. it's not a question of living beyond their means but rather living in the completely false sense of security that a good credit score provides while completely ignoring the dramatic and completely unforeseen turn of events that will invariably impact themselves upon the lives each and every one of us.
So you say it is Fedex fault that employees live beyond their means, have too many toys and have too much debt?
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
So you say it is Fedex fault that employees live beyond their means, have too many toys and have too much debt?

You should know better by now. Ask baka what time it is, he tries to tell you how clocks are assembled and a half-dozen other things that are even less relevant.
 

Oldfart

Well-Known Member
So much for minding your own business about your coworkers.
LOL. Hey Einstein, I was repeating what bacha said in his rambling post. PLEASE learn to read, it might help you get out of that singlewide trailer and make it up to a doublewide.
 

Schweddy

Balls
The real issue is that if you truly minded your own business, you wouldn't be on here meddling in all these topics and talking down to people.

Keep repeating yourself, maybe I'll wake up in a double wide.
 
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