Extra contract agreements

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by whiskers, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. whiskers

    whiskers Member

    The employer agrees not to enter into, or attempt to enter into, any agreement or contract with its employees... or to require or attempt to require employees to sign any document..

    Would being instructed to write your initials on a document be considered "signing"? I've done a small amount of searching and can't find a clear answer to this.
  2. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Yes. It is the same.
  3. whiskers

    whiskers Member

    Ok thanks...

    That article then goes on to say, "Any such agreement or document shall be null and void... may not be placed in an employee's file or used by the employer as a basis for discipline...(not an exact quote).
    I know we are supposed to work as directed. With that being said, should I go ahead and sign my initials making this document null and void?

    Hypothetically, if I found such document in my personal file from a year ago, could this be grieved or is there a time limit on this?
  4. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Your initials from this day forwards ,except on your paycheck, will be RTS. Period, no exceptions.
  5. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    I always RTS but I have been told on a few occasions that safety stuff must be signed. By this I mean their little safety quizzes and such. What if your name is Robert Theodore smith lol
  6. whiskers

    whiskers Member

    I have talked with my BA about this in the past, and he told me to bring a steward with me and tell my SUP that "I'm not refusing to work, but I don't have to sign this". Well i couldnt find a steward because there are none on my shift and the driver-stewards clock out and leave and never speak to us. So I asked my SUP to find me a steward, was told none are available. Later in my shift my center manager and SUP come into the feeder trailer i was working in, and began to yell and tell me i must WORK AS DIRECTED! they literally threatened my job. But its not what you know its what you can prove.
  7. cachsux

    cachsux Wah


    I have had paperwork complimenting me, RTS.
  8. whiskers

    whiskers Member

    Would you mind explaining?
  9. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Refuse To Sign. It is illegal for them to refuse you a steward for a disciplinary action.
    Tell your BA to get off his butt and get down to that center/hub and take care of this!!!

    Just because the comany agreed to that language, do you really trust them?? Do not sign-initial anything. They insist, sign,"refuse to sign."
  10. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    I believe Warning Letters stay active for nine months, so I assume other documents can be used against you in a disciplinary hearing so long as they are less than nine months old. But check with your Local to be sure.

    Whenever this "Do I have to sign" issue comes up, someone always says, "Don't sign anything but your paycheck." But be careful. Article 6 only applies to a document that CONFLICTS WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT.

    Also, if you refuse to sign, there may be consequences. If I refuse to sign the forktruck training, and recertification, and DVIR, then I can't do that portion of my job.

    If I refuse to sign the Yard Shifting certifications, or tractor DVIR, or Carwash certifications, then I can't do those portions of my job.

    If I refuse to sign the Waste Water Run-off, and Fueling certifications then I can't wash cars.

    If I refuse to sign the Yard Certification, then I can't do the portion of my job that requires me to be outside the building.

    I'm not sure about signing the Safety Drivel. They say it's OSHA required. What I'd like someone to determine is does OSHA really require it, or do they only require it because UPS got caught violating OSHA regulations, and signed a Corporate-Wide Settlement Agreement that in turn requires us to prove we know the Safety Drivel or else OSHA will tear up the plea bargain and UPS will have to pay the fines in full.
  11. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I have to chuckle when the the Joe (and Josie) Unions say "Don't Sign Anything!!". We are all adults here and we can all make our own decisions as to what we should and should not sign. Signing or not signing a document makes no difference as the directive contained therein would still apply.
  12. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Having ignored what Nancy says, as a steward, I was the first to refuse to sign anything in my center. If I don't have the cojones to do it, I can't ask someone else to do it. I didn't sign yard certification, yet was certified every year. I never signed the safety drivel. Was quite the war in my division. Guess what? I never signed and was never disciplined or told I can't do part of my job. That was my experience. That is all I can speak to.
  13. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Let me add this, I am speaking exclusively of the paperwork ONLY UPS 'requires'. I sign the DVIR. I sign the waste water stuff. The op wasn't referring to this. If an outside governmental agency requires the paper, then I will sign. I will evaluate and look into whether it's required and by whom. If some people want to sign their life away to THE MAN, let them. I certainly wouldn't put them-down or belittle them even more because ups has them believing their job is on the line. I will leave the belittling for the one whom loves it so.
  14. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    Past practices seem to vary by region, but in mine we decided you must (of course) sign your DVIR, annual license certification, and any other government required documents that might come up (CCR in Feeders for example). For all others, such as Pittsburgh's, Safety, training and OJS forms initialing would suffice. Initialing just says that you have reviewed the document but are not agreeing with it. This seemed to end the "sign, don't sign" war, as it didn't really matter whether you signed or not because they still brought the document out at JALM anyways.

    If you got into a sticky situation where some jerk Manager was insisting you sign, we just suggested the driver write "SIGNED UNDER PROTEST UNDER ARTICLE 6 OF THE NATIONAL MASTER AGREEMENT" above their signature in very large letters. The sign/don't sign usually just devolved into a big FU to management so that seemed to serve it's purpose.

    For Stewards we would always initial the Pittsburgh at the end of the written discipline, drawing a line "\" so nothing more could be added, and of course getting a copy. We used a code that we developed to identify that was our initials on that particular day. They later changed our Pittsburgh forms so it just had an area for initials on the right, so we would put them there too. This prevented Management from manufacturing discipline that had never been issued by claiming we refused to sign.
  15. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Personally, I don't believe we should be required to sign anything unless it's a legal requirement. I refuse to sign certain things if they are false or have me agreeing to something I know is a lie, or something I can't promise. But normally I sign without creating a scene. Most things are just routine. Not worth fighting.

    Legally, initialing is the same as signing. Don't kid yourself.

    Something you can do is write, "I have reviewed this document." Then add your signature. That indicates you read the document, which is what UPS wants, without indicating that you agree with it.

    What bothers me about this is the Teamsters, as usual, never take the lead. If they would announce that we should not sign certain specific documents, then we would know they will back us up, and we'll have plenty of others refusing to sign as well. Instead, each of us is on our own with no guidance.

    Today I signed "The Eight Yard Control Safety Rules Assessment" and the "Awareness of Damages and Overgoods Prevention Training" (affectionately known as ADOPT). Like so many of these things, a complete waste of time.

    The Teamsters should simply tell UPS that if they want proof we were given all these documents, then just have a supervisor take attendance when documents are distributed to a group, or create his own roster if handed out individually. No need for us to sign.
  16. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    My father was a big influence in my decision on how I would handle the signing situation. The conversation I had with him was what led to my conversation with my BA From that conversation, The BA decided it would be wise to follow the contract that he himself negotiated(He loves his ego pumped).
    I am sure in the time since I have been gone, some have decided it is easier to go along since I am not there to deflect. I am also sure Nancy will have some retort trying to belittle me once again. I simply know what actions I have taken and what the reaction to those actions has been.
    I sign what can be proven to me is legally required. Even from the bench, I have to sign the form about my drivers license. And, I do. Because I choose to put myself in the line of fire when it comes to whether or not I will sign something, I don't understand why one cares one way or another.
  17. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Signing or not signing--you are still required to abide by the directive on the document.

    Do you also refuse to do the DIAD training?
  18. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Why do you care what I do? Really. I am very curious about this. I don't work in your building. I don't care what you do when you do whatever it is you do. Why, Dave? We all know its not because you care about me as a human being and enjoy the interaction with a fellow upser. So, what is it?
  19. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I am curious about your constant need to "stand up to the man". Most of the stuff that they ask us to sign is job-related and will govern us whether we sign or not. More and more of our training is being done on the DIAD and is mandatory. The DVIR, driver's license certification, driver release certification, etc., are all requirements of our job and must be signed. Sign it--don't sign it--you will still need to abide by it.
  20. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Funny. I can't think of one thing I am curious about concerning you.