Fed ex jumpin head first !

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by wildgoose, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. wildgoose

    wildgoose WILDGOOSE

    Fed ex is joining the teamsters but did they bother to see how well or not funded the New England Pension is or Central States ?
    I`m sure they just listen to the BA or teamster local President
    smoozin them on how well they will be taken care of ! Are they going to be included in the New England fund that is barely keepin its head above water ? Good Luck Fed-ex !
  2. DorkHead

    DorkHead Active Member

    What is it with you Wildgoose? Teamsters everywhere including yourself should be glad that they are joining our union. Increasing membership is one of our goals. And by the way, how come the APWA isn`t pounding down the doors to represent them????? Something to think about........
  3. nospinzone

    nospinzone New Member

    APWA wants nothing to do with FedEx or any other company outside of UPS. The multi-employer thing obviously doesn't work. A UPS employee only union would be financially secure unlike the current multiemployer plan we're in. APWA's business is serving UPS employees only. Period.
  4. Ironshot

    Ironshot Member

    Hello, the APWA is a UPS only union. Nobody else.... Do you understand?
    let Fedex have the sick donkey and wagon crowd, known as the Teamsters... By the way "shrinking membership" is what's happening to the Teamsters for a long while now. Nice handle by the way? Driver!
  5. Ironshot

    Ironshot Member


    So diplomatic! Well said by the way.
  6. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Wildgoose IMO asked the all important questions among many that FedExers need to ask before taking this step. Sure it's good for us but FedExers should think of themselves first. If FedEx across the country become Teamsters and enter the multi-employer plans, there's no doubt those like myself with 25 years will benefit from that influx. However, looking out 25 and 30 years for the new FedEx Teamster, can you tell me how they will look? A handfull of UPSers are not covered by multi-employer plans and FedExers would do well to either take that route or FedExers actually hold a key trump card in making our pension better but it'll require us, the "day in the trenches" Teamster employee to explain what is happening so if they do decide to join the multi- employer plans they can help shape them so that they are viable 25 and 30 years out.

    You know, it's ironic the "brotherhood" crap I hear all the time from the unionist all over the place and the belittling I recieve as well as others when I or them express some indepenent thought and concern for wanting to take my/their own future in my/their own hands while the unionist sit on their totalitarian butts and refuse any consideration for other possibilities or to even discuss them. Now we have FedEx coming into the scene and now they flip coin and cast away the collective "brotherhood" mentality and fully embrace the "me" mentality (UPSers should rejoice the FedEx money into CS,etc.)and what they themselves will gain out of that deal.

    In other words, "I'm stuck in a bad plan and I need you to bail me out so I can enjoy the good life. As for your good life in 25 to 30 years, that's your problem!"

    Brothers of the working man to the end aren't you!

    As for the APWA I think that was clearly answered.
  7. hoser

    hoser Industrial Slob

    You forgot, only that the water is 10 meters deep....

    Stop this fear mongering all because two FedEx groud, let me say it one more time, ground, didn't get that? G-R-O-U-N-D terminals voted for certificaiton. A contract hasn't even been agreed upon.

    FedEx's money is in express, not ground. This will hit their operations, but not as a cessation like you dream over. Even if it did, you'd whine about the extra volume.
  8. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    As I said in another thread on this subject, this thing has a "Oh so long way to go!" However, fighting this does cause FedEx to waste energy, time, expense and although in some respect to the larger FedEx, they do have to worry about the larger picture. You also have to understand that their entry into the ground business and their business model is predicated on the IC status of their drivers verses being employees. The union is really the smaller threat as more and more jurisdictions either by courts or adminstrative processes are saying those IC's are in truth employees and that is the greater concern here. The union issue is more of a piling on instead of the one who tackled the man with the ball.

    Another lurking concern out there is the fact they (FedEx) have to be careful in going to Washington for help as the adminstrative process is forcing them over and under the NLRB more and more and many in Washington want UPS and FedEx on the same page. If that happens and the NLRB wins then FedEx is in big trouble. If it goes the other way and UPS goes under the Railway Act then you could say UPS wins but in reality, either way, UPS will come out the winner.

    Don't think for a moment FedEx isn't concerned and to make the problem worse is the fact that UPS and IBT are holding contract talks nearly 2 years early and if the unbelievable happens and we get an early contract, this compounds the problem even further. You can bet Hoffa and Eskew will wheel and deal and the final wash will include some unspoken promise for the IBT to go all out at FedEx in exchange for something from UPS!

  9. mittam

    mittam Member

    How does one figure that FedEx joining the teamsters will help out our retirement? It will do nothing for us at all!!! We still will only get 40cents on the dollar to our pension.The company still will contribute our $222.00 per week and we still will only get $88.00 per week for our own pension the rest goes to everyone else. This still is money the teamsters are stealing from us!!!!

    FEDEX FAN monte carlo 11 and 12

    The two terminals that voted in for union representation were not Express or Ground divisions. Home Delivery is a sister company from Fedex Ground and is run as a separate entity. Fedex ground is much like UPS in that ground packages are both picked up and delivered from customers. Home Delivery is strictly residential delivery (although some customers give there employers address) and dont do any pick ups. Most if not all of there volume comes from online stores or catalogs.

    By the way, Did anyone see Cramer on the Today Show this mourning? One of my customers told me Cramer said that the one stock you must own is Fedex. There is a short clip on the Today Shows web site. :thumbup1:
  11. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator

    Amen Brother! The Reamsters are just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Minus a percentage for the Reamsters administration to fatten their purse. FedEx has nothing to do with helping out UPS employee's pension problems.
  12. hoser

    hoser Industrial Slob

    Home Delivery? Oh wow, so this is even more insignificant. FX can just cease and desist their HD operations and move that to ground. Or they can do waht they do a lot of the time with HD: outsource it to temp agencies. Hire an insider to do the routing and put it in paper, pay some tool $10/hr to follow those directions. There, now you can't get a union drive at other terminals.

    A lot of contractors with FX ground are pretty happy where they are; really good money and lots of independence, maybe that's why other attempts to unionize (where some terminals only have 5-10 IC's) failed.

    You're a troll. Stop trying to provoke us, we actually work for a living rather than shill our own company on web forums for employees of competing delivery firms.

    Not to mention that Cramer's show is more focused on entertainment than real information.

    I'm not saying FX isn't concerned, I'm just saying Fred is not losing sleep over this. You're right, this costs FX money, but they're a business, and legal costs and HR are normal expenses that these businesses are willing to spend cash on.

    Now if his express division decided to unionize, which is never going to happen in the next decade, then there'd be issues.

    Your union-strategism sounds interesting, but I wouldn't jump to that so quick. Remember it's two terminals. Let's see where this goes, it's going to be a slooow process.
  13. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah, the process as you said will be slow but strategic thinking in this area of business is over the long haul and takes years to show results. I do think ultimately what UPS wants in this whole deal is not so much for FedEx to become union but rather to have UPS moved under the Railway Act with FedEx rather than FedEx going NLRB. UPS knows a non-union UPS has about as much chance as a snowball in hell. Even those like myself who aren't to excited about unions anyway are also about as unexcited about a UPS without a union to check itself so there you go. Also UPS does benefit with a union and one cases is with unemployment benefits. With the union the employee goes through a process of where the termination is looked at via the grievance procedure. I'll bet this has a $$$ saving impact for the company that we never consider or hear about.

    As for the Railway Act, it allows contract processes to become dragged out and take years in some cases. Look at both UPS and FedEx pilots. In both cases, these companies know they will pay in some future arrangement and there are 2 IMO obvious advantages for the employers in this drawn out process.

    1st) Outlasting the opposition to the point that frustration builds and the pressure is more on the union to get a contract to an every increasingly nervous membership. Not always every case mind you but it has worked in some cases and more times than not.

    2nd) During these several years of contract limbo, a healthy company can set aside or make investments with it's excess on-hand cash to build up assets than in effect pay the increased costs over the longhaul so instead of agreeing early and having to pull from upfront revenues, the company can drag it's feet while building assets whose longterm earning pay the increase that never effects the priciple asset unless hardtimes arise and the company is able to not have to direct draw from it's revenue stream. There is a bottomline effect but to analyst looking at this picture, they see a very smart business approach to rising costs which thus has a positive effect on their opinions to the stock.

    I'll concede this is total conjecture on my part because in both the above I have no proof that UPS is using this type of strategic thinking but other companies have and a number of non-union companies build up assets outside the core business whose return pay the overhead. I just see where this thinking could happen within our world of UPS and FedEx.

    On a totally different note, are you guys off tomorrow and Friday like us or in Canada do you guys have a Canadian Thanksgiving at another time? Just curious!
    Have a good one.
  14. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    :lol: You just answered your own question.

    FedEx comes to town and then FedExers complain that we are the "everyone else" taking the money. It's a ponzi scheme there Nimrod!

    Think Boy Think!

    FEDEX FAN monte carlo 11 and 12

    You're a troll. Stop trying to provoke us, we actually work for a living rather than shill our own company on web forums for employees of competing delivery firms.

    Not to mention that Cramer's show is more focused on entertainment than real information.

    Hoser, Im not trying to upset anyone. Im just trying to let you know that you can make some easy money off of our backs. Nothing wrong with that. I bought some UPS stock with the intent to make some money back when UPS went public. I thought it would be a good investment, just didnt pan out for me. There has been talks in the last 2 years about Fedex buying TNT's Express division. Ive only seen one article in Forbes last December about it, but there have been some rumors in our district that a deal has been reached. I would have to think that would be a positive factor for Fedex stock. Only time will tell.
  16. any122

    any122 adirondack man

    Wkmac you need to think.I know your hoping for someone like fedx to bail the under funded teamster pensions out but it will take more than fedx.We who understand how the fund is doing no it's time for change.Im sure you're close to retirement so you could care less about the employees who still have to work another fifteen or twenty years.Also from the results of the teamster election we can see that most teamsters don't think they need a change or are not informed enough to even care.So what I can see you yourself could care less as long as your pension will be thier you will sit back and hope you collect why watching the sinking ship go down.I hope you're still in good enough shape to greet people at walmart.Again if you are so smart you need to change your way of thinking.
  17. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    You little snotwad, I was here defending APWA way before you "johnny come lately" punks showed up so don't hand me that crap and try and patronize me. Numerous union hardcore types here who've been around well over a year or so ago can more than verify this. You accuse me of not thinking well I could say it's obvious you've not done much reading in this forum either!

    Having a number of discussions with Van Skillman personally on a variety of issues facing APWA, one of the things that concerned him was the rumor mongering of the "perfect" APWA retirement that was going around. Still got the emails. If APWA comes into existence tomorrow I know the most I can get is just less than a $1000 per month by the time I retire so don't try and con me. Van gave me the formula on how they've got it worked out. However we all know APWA won't be in place tomorrow so the real figure is even less now isn't it!

    Speaking of Van and Danny Eason, as I've said, I found them both to be very honest and didn't sugar coat anything and Van has even more to lose and less to gain than I do. I admire those kinds of principles.

    Oh, now you're gonna tell me APWA has a "secret scheme" to salvage our past credits and move them to APWA. Wrong! Van flat out told me this was at best internet BS. No such thing existed. Now the new trick is to sue CS and IBT to recapture the funds but first off their legal warchest is vastly bigger than yours and lawsuits take years. And guess what. You've also got to name potentially your biggest ally in the lawsuit and that is UPS. They are also involve as having a representative as trustee and they will defend their good name.

    Even the validity of the suit will get challenge out of the box before you even do your first depostion or discovery and that in itself will likely take 3 to 5 years and then if you prevail, it's likely to take another 3 to 5 and more likely 7 plus years so see the entire process through with appeals and all and my math sees this all will not happen for at least 10 years and by then I'm gone anyway.

    As for dumping CS, there are some folks here, Cheryl for one, who has known me since 1999' and the Motley Fool Stock Board established that summer ahead of the public offering. I was pushing then to dump CS and go individual accounts and this was several years before the cuts and just after CS and the IBT raised the payouts to come close to matching what UPS offered in 97'. Where was APWA tehn? Where the :censored2: have you been all this time?

    I'm all for a UPS only union and have been whether it's APWA or whatever and as for retirement screw all of you. Give me my money and credits and I'll take care of myself and will have no worries about some other clown or union screwing up my life's work.

    Really? Well I got something for you to do.
    :lips: my :*******:

    Clowns like you are the reason why APWA will have a hardtime getting anywhere because everyone knows the CS/IBT situation is bad but they see guys like you making condescending statements to those who have real and legit concerns and you show a hardheadedness as bad if not worse than some of the IBT coolaid drinkers.

    Please, spare me!
  18. any122

    any122 adirondack man

    Sorry if i misunderstood you.I do read what you write and agree with you on most issues.It looked to me like you were defending the IBT.But anyway sorry if I rattled your cage.As far as your politicle views i agree with most of what you write.I currently have fifteen years and will not have anything to do with the teamsters.Under the old overnite policy I would have been able to leave with thirty years at age fiffty five.I don't think thats possible now.Thank you UPS.Sorry again good luck with your retirement.Wish you wealth good health and many happy days.