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FedEx Home wins round in Unionization efforts
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<blockquote data-quote="pretzel_man" data-source="post: 520176" data-attributes="member: 927"><p>See the questions below:</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Sorry, that does not jive - those were lobbies FOR UPS's benefit, not AGAINST a competitor.</span></p><p></p><p>- Not a true statement. When UPS lobbied for intra state rights, we were going to take business away from competitors that served that territory. When we lobbied for China rights, we were in competition against other airlines for that limited asset.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">WHY? Regardless of if you agree with it or not, it is a perfectly legal, ethical way of doing business!!</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black">- UPS is arguing that FedEx was NOT following the law in the case of sub contractors. Of course we have that right. Do you think the employee / contractors that brought the suit didn't have the right? Did your read the IRS regulations? Its not clear that FedEx is following the law. They drive a FedEx signed vehicle don't they? Do they use a FedEx scanner? Don't they have to wear a FedEx uniform? From that perspective, sounds like an employee per the legal definition.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Let me ask this rhetorically - do you think a day goes by where the powers that be at UPS don't kick themselves in the ass & say "Damn - I wish we thought of that!"</span></p><p></p><p>- I don't know. I do know that UPS uses contractors internationally. I think we do the same in Alaska. UPS argues that we use contractors differently than how FedEx does, and therefore follows the law.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">So, in a sentence, what is our side of the story?</span></p><p></p><p>- I think its relatively straight forward. UPS says that businesses that we compete with that do exactly the same thing as us should have the same rules. We also say that a monopoly (like USPS) cannot subsidize the portion of the business where they compete with us with the business potion (like mail) that is a monopoly. As far as contractors go, we think that should be used legally. As far as EFCA goes, we think that there should be a secret ballot (among other things).</p><p></p><p>So, let me turn it around and discuss FAA bill that impacts FedEx labor regulations. Should FedEX not lobby congress to fight that bill? Your logic is that they should not spend a penny telling the congress why its important to them.</p><p></p><p>P-Man</p><p></p><p></p><p>Quote:</p><p><em>...But, UPS should ALSO lobby lawmakers so they understand our side of the story. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><span style="color: red">So, in a sentence, what is our side of the story?</span></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>If you follow that logic, UPS should have not lobbied for intrastate shipping rights 30 years ago. We should have not lobbied for landing rights in China. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><span style="color: red">Sorry, that does not jive - those were lobbies FOR UPS's benefit, not AGAINST a competitor.</span></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Should the Teamsters not lobby for the Employee Free Choice Act?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The question was raised why this was important. Here is a quote from Business Week:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>"<span style="font-family: 'Arial'">For FedEx, the contractor model may be one reason why it has taken market share from archrival United Parcel Serv</span></em>ice Inc. (UPS ), whose dri<em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">vers are largely full-time employees, says Satish Jindel, president of SJ Consulting Group Inc., a transportation consultancy. He estimates that the use of lower-cost contract drivers enables FedEx Ground to deliver packages for an average cost of $5.82 apiece, vs. the $7.17 average Jindel believes it costs UPS to deliver both air and ground packages over its integrated network. FedEx won't discuss Jindel's estimates but says its contract drivers ``are more productive because they get paid by results, not by the hour.''</span></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Here are the IRS rules on employee vs. contractor:</span></em></p><p><em></em></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Behavioral</li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?</li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Financial</li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?</li> </ul></li> </ul></li> </ol><p><em>I think UPS has a right and responsibility to challenge the model. ...</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><span style="color: red">WHY? Regardless of if you agree with it or not, it is a perfectly legal, ethical way of doing business!!</span></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><span style="color: red">Let me ask this rhetorically - do you think a day goes by where the powers that be at UPS don't kick themselves in the ass & say "Damn - I wish we thought of that!"</span></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pretzel_man, post: 520176, member: 927"] See the questions below: [COLOR=#ff0000]Sorry, that does not jive - those were lobbies FOR UPS's benefit, not AGAINST a competitor.[/COLOR] - Not a true statement. When UPS lobbied for intra state rights, we were going to take business away from competitors that served that territory. When we lobbied for China rights, we were in competition against other airlines for that limited asset. [COLOR=#ff0000]WHY? Regardless of if you agree with it or not, it is a perfectly legal, ethical way of doing business!![/COLOR] [COLOR=black]- UPS is arguing that FedEx was NOT following the law in the case of sub contractors. Of course we have that right. Do you think the employee / contractors that brought the suit didn't have the right? Did your read the IRS regulations? Its not clear that FedEx is following the law. They drive a FedEx signed vehicle don't they? Do they use a FedEx scanner? Don't they have to wear a FedEx uniform? From that perspective, sounds like an employee per the legal definition.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000]Let me ask this rhetorically - do you think a day goes by where the powers that be at UPS don't kick themselves in the ass & say "Damn - I wish we thought of that!"[/COLOR] - I don't know. I do know that UPS uses contractors internationally. I think we do the same in Alaska. UPS argues that we use contractors differently than how FedEx does, and therefore follows the law. [COLOR=#ff0000]So, in a sentence, what is our side of the story?[/COLOR] - I think its relatively straight forward. UPS says that businesses that we compete with that do exactly the same thing as us should have the same rules. We also say that a monopoly (like USPS) cannot subsidize the portion of the business where they compete with us with the business potion (like mail) that is a monopoly. As far as contractors go, we think that should be used legally. As far as EFCA goes, we think that there should be a secret ballot (among other things). So, let me turn it around and discuss FAA bill that impacts FedEx labor regulations. Should FedEX not lobby congress to fight that bill? Your logic is that they should not spend a penny telling the congress why its important to them. P-Man Quote: [I]...But, UPS should ALSO lobby lawmakers so they understand our side of the story. [COLOR=red]So, in a sentence, what is our side of the story?[/COLOR] If you follow that logic, UPS should have not lobbied for intrastate shipping rights 30 years ago. We should have not lobbied for landing rights in China. [COLOR=red]Sorry, that does not jive - those were lobbies FOR UPS's benefit, not AGAINST a competitor.[/COLOR] Should the Teamsters not lobby for the Employee Free Choice Act? The question was raised why this was important. Here is a quote from Business Week: "[FONT=Arial]For FedEx, the contractor model may be one reason why it has taken market share from archrival United Parcel Serv[/FONT][/I]ice Inc. (UPS ), whose dri[I][FONT=Arial]vers are largely full-time employees, says Satish Jindel, president of SJ Consulting Group Inc., a transportation consultancy. He estimates that the use of lower-cost contract drivers enables FedEx Ground to deliver packages for an average cost of $5.82 apiece, vs. the $7.17 average Jindel believes it costs UPS to deliver both air and ground packages over its integrated network. FedEx won't discuss Jindel's estimates but says its contract drivers ``are more productive because they get paid by results, not by the hour.''[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Here are the IRS rules on employee vs. contractor:[/FONT] [/I] [LIST=1] [*] [LIST] [*]Behavioral [/LIST] [LIST] [*]: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job? [/LIST] [LIST] [*]Financial [/LIST] [LIST] [*]: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.) [LIST] [*]Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business? [/LIST] [/LIST] [/LIST] [I]I think UPS has a right and responsibility to challenge the model. ... [COLOR=red]WHY? Regardless of if you agree with it or not, it is a perfectly legal, ethical way of doing business!![/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Let me ask this rhetorically - do you think a day goes by where the powers that be at UPS don't kick themselves in the ass & say "Damn - I wish we thought of that!"[/COLOR][/I] [/QUOTE]
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