Feeder paper work question??? Scale tips.

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by brown67, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. brown67

    brown67 Active Member

    So just started full time as a UPS feeder driver. Been a package/feeder driver for 3 1/2 years. The route I'm taking over does a trailer swap in the town just north of my center. I have to go over a scale and not sure what I need for paper work. Normally we carry paper work for our loads that are attached to the inside wall of the trailer. However, when we go and swap trailers at a company there is no paper work. If its a local swap do I need paper work, or should I fill out one? If the scale checks me what will they want? Any info would be great on going through a scale.
  2. Dracula

    Dracula Package Car is cake compared to this...

    You ALWAYS need those seal controls that you find in the back of the trailer. Any trailer that you are carrying needs to have a seal control paper. When you swap trailers, you need to get and sign your name on the form from the trailer you are picking up from the other drivers. I'm surprised the other driver you swap out with doesn't ask you for the ones you started with.

    I take a set of doubles to another hub. I have a separate seal control for each trailer I carry. When I get to the hub I'm going to, the driver that takes my trailers isn't there yet, so I drop the set and put each seal control in the king box for each respective trailer. Never leave a hub without a seal control for every trailer. The hubs will put, or SHOULD put, any haz mat labels in the pouch. By law, that has to be in the cab of the tractor.

    So, to answer your question, the scales probably will ask to see your seal control pouches and match the seal on the trailer to the number on the seal control. You will probably be fined if you don't have it. Never leave a hub without these forms. Never get rushed and forget it. Lots of times the hub will jam your trailers and that seal control will get lost, or the actual seal will get busted, bent or broke in the load. It is up to you to go find a sup, either a hub sup or one of yours to get a new seal.

    We had a driver that noticed some hazmat packages in his trailer, but no labels in his seal control pouch. He refused to pull the trailer, and it was well within his right to do so. He left without the trailer, and the hub ended up having to unload the trailer, causing a trailer-load of service failures. Turns out there was 16 different hazmat packages on the trailer, and one was leaking. Sure, they were :censored2:, but so what? It was their fault.

    It sounds like you need to touch base with some experienced drivers to get some more tips, because it's pretty bad that you didn't know the ins and outs of the seal controls. Someone, not sure who, but someone dropped a big ball in your case. Again, talk to some older drivers and get their advice on this stuff, because it's your ass hanging in the wind, not UPS's.
  3. brown67

    brown67 Active Member

    This is a TDP swap at a businesses and not an exchange with another driver. No problem with seal control with our loads between hubs and center. This is a company that ships welding supplies and is 50% to 80% full. So there is no paper work or seal controls. I pull it back to the center and they top off the load and then seal it and send it to the hub.
  4. Dracula

    Dracula Package Car is cake compared to this...

    If your trailers have loads on them, they need a seal and documentation of that seal. If the trailers are empty, we have those yellow seals, with numbers on them, that indicate that your trailers are empty.
  5. 104Feeder

    104Feeder Phoenix Feeder

    Seems like not every Region does it the same way. California likes to send out trailers with seals and controls, but the seal number is not written on the control paperwork. Nobody seems to care that the load could be rifled through anywhere between the hub and the meet point and a new seal attached without any record to check this.

    We use the yellow plastic seals for air trailers. Texas likes to use those for MT's, we sometimes use tin seals but most just leave them unsealed.
    CPU's like the OP described used to be padlocked but now they want us to tin-seal them with no paperwork.

    As for scales, the ones I've gone through just want your registration, fuel tax, and insurance documents.
  6. brown67

    brown67 Active Member

    We don't seal mt's unless they go to the rail yard.
  7. 104Feeder

    104Feeder Phoenix Feeder

    Weird, we don't seal MT rails because they want to look inside and be sure it's MT and there are no roof leaks. This is Santa Fe RR.
  8. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    We don't seal empties. You still need a hazmat pouch, tho.
  9. Dracula

    Dracula Package Car is cake compared to this...

    I've never taken an empty to the rail. Only full loads to and from. So, I can't speak with any authority about that. But I've always been told, and do, put the yellow seal on emptys. I'm pretty anal about methods, so I always have a roll of those yellow seals. And I don't care how far behind I am, if something is wrong with my seal, or it is signed wrong by a previous driver, I'll go make them write up another seal. But I deal with the same drivers--older guys-- and they are always bulletproof. But the hubs, they're a different story.
  10. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    As for tractor papers, yes, usually all that is required is tractor registration, fuel card and insurance card. The last few times I got stopped for overweight, that is all the tractor stuff I had to bring in, excluding, of course, your driver's license, medical card and log book if on paper (if you get a hard-nosed scale guy, they may ask to see your electronic log. You know how to bring that up?).

    Years ago, tho, I was asked to bring in ALL paperwork, that is, all trailer and dolly registration and proof of inspection. Maybe not so much any more. Couldn't understand why UPS was starting to plaster this to the wall of the kingpin.

    As for your seal control...this is your "Bill of Lading"...the description of what you have in the trailer, where it came from, where it's going. You don't have that for a local pickup? Does the scale care? Maybe, maybe not. Wouldn't it be better to have one for each trailer? Just in case? We ran into that here, notice HERE. What I started doing, even tho the company or pickup didn't require it, is to have a tablet of seal papers, some tin or plastic seals, fill em out, stick seals on trailer(s). Mission accomplished. Oh, it takes more time? Well, La, De, Dah! All legal, right?

    MTs? Here, notice again I said HERE, the company fed us the BS that it was FSTB policy that ALL trailers must be sealed in some way, whether by S/C or padlock. Whether it's Fed policy or not, I don't care. You want me to do this, I will. You DON'T want me to seal trailer, then we have a prob. Geez, am I gonna get fired for doing TOO MUCH of my job?

    In sleeper, we hauled MT back from Louky sometimes. Locally, they told us they wanted these MTs locked up somehow. We started putting the plastic seals on the MTs before we left. Huh! Not gonna work. The high-paid rent-a-cops on the out bound wanted to see paperwork that matched plastic seal. We told em it was just a deterant as per our local gendarmes. Didn't matter. Again, we merely filled out our own paperwork, seal, BINGO! Problem solved!

    "Expect the Unexpected", right? I heard that somewhere, a MAD magazine, maybe?
    And, uh, ask MANAGEMENT what THEY require, then go to drivers and ask. See if the answers match.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  11. 104Feeder

    104Feeder Phoenix Feeder

    I wouldn't be comfortable filling out my own seal control paperwork, especially if there was some prior issue on a load. I notify dispatch immediately about any discrepancy. Too many opportunities to have something turn up missing and have to answer for it so CYA.
    If the guards don't like sealed MT's I would just let them cut the seals & reseal them.
    But yeah, ask 10 different Management people and you'll get 10 different answers.
  12. Kevin211

    Kevin211 Member

    Also you need to know how to retrieve your log book off the computer system in the tractor, Big fine to the driver if you do not know how.
    FMSCA also requires all trailiers to be sealed in some manner. (I use ups plastic seals) when pulling from customers and MDT's.
  13. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Absolutely agree! I ain't comfortable filling out my own seal control paperwork, either, AT A HUB. THEY are supposed to know and do, however, there were some hubs we were at that do things completely diff. At our local hub, dr supes are sposed to lock and seal w/proper paperwork attached to dr along with pouch. In Denver, the stuff is sitting on floor of trailer, you drive up to rent-a-cop station, hand stuff to them, they take back and seal trailer. Neat system, huh? In Louky, stuff is hanging somewhere (it's always a treasure hunt) inside trailer. You take it, snap it and head to shack. In St Paul, it was usually inside back dr right in orange plastic pouch on roller frame support. Others, I know, are different. So much for being on the same page, huh. AND, invariably, we had a prob at least once a week and had to go inside and get it changed. No, we didn't change on our own, we made THEM do it.

    However, here, HERE, we have many trailer pickups and outlying centers that would classify as BFE. Most of these have to cross one, two or more scales. At a pickup, most could care less what you do with the trailer, just as long as you get it back and processed. Scale? In most cases, scale people don't care, either, they just want it legal and safe. What do you do? FORCE the pickup to fill out some paperwork? Ain't gonna happen. Wouldn't it be easier to just fill it out yerself and be on your way? At least you KNOW it's correct, right?

    As for little center out in the weeds, yes, it IS their job also to know every phase of their job. But wait, what about when the Phantom center manager is gone by 4 PM for happy hour (I say Phantom because we all know that in most cases, these little centers are "managed" by a traveling center manager). Just TRY to get the PT supe, left to take care of everything from customer counter to swabbing the floors to unloading trailers or package cars to even KNOW what a seal control is, let alone fill one out.

    In our case, it was just easier to just do it ourselves. No, I certainly don't mind waiting for someone else to do it but I think we are all smart enuff and been here long enuff where we know what to do efficiently. I DID make it quite clear to home base, tho, what I was doing and also made it quite clear that if we had ANY problem with that or them in the future that we WOULD resort to making sure ALL seals and paperwork was done properly by the PROPER people. Even THEY knew that was the wise course. Why? Getting some of these small center people to follow directions was, well, difficult, to say the least.

    So, yes, I DO believe in doing the right thing, and with this company, for my own protection. But, there are just some times when you HAVE to take responsiblity and do it yourself. LEGALLY!
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  14. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    your best bet is to ask other drivers at your hub. you do need a pouch even for mt trailers ( $500 fine in NV )

    you could ask dispatch for blank paperwoek and seals and do one yourself and then stop at the scale and ask them but i think it's best to ask fellow drivers. even different scales in the same state ( such as CA ) will have different answers.

    "expect the unexpected........doesn't that make the unexpected expected?"
  15. Dracula

    Dracula Package Car is cake compared to this...

    Just another example how :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2:ed up this company is. You might think a company of this size would put priorities on following the law of the land, federal, states. You would be wrong. UPS, as always, does the very bare minimum when it involves informing or training it's employees. The real problem I have is that I can't go into the on-road office and ask a supervisor the procedures on this or any other topic. Why? Because they don't know; they're too stupid. And that's not a slam, that's just the truth.

    I talked to a long-time driver last night about this. He told me (in our area, anyway) that all trailers need to be sealed and they need paperwork. He told me some pickups wont give you any paperwork or a seal. He says technically you can refuse to pickup the load, but he says he tells the customer they need to have paperwork ready, and a seal on the back door, but still makes the pickup. He puts a yellow UPS seal on the chain and puts an empty pouch in his visor in case someone asks, and tells whoever asks that the seal is just saying that he doesn't have any HazMats on the trailer.