Fired but will be back.

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Over12upsblows, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. Over12upsblows

    Over12upsblows New Member

    I got terminated 2 days ago for sheeting 5 stops NI1 not at the location. The reason for this is because those 5 stops are in a very dangerous housing project and it was late at night in Boston, Ma. I told my center manager that and he called me a "punk" and "you think you own the place". I have never been terminated in my 8 years working for UPS. My buisness agent says it might be 2 to 3 weeks before I am back. What kind of case do I have if any? The contract says that no employee will be fired for GPS offensives the first time and this info was clearly from telematics. I'm really annoyed and thinking about calling the attorney general and filing wrongful termination. Any help will be helpful.

    Thank you
  2. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    File for unemployment.
  3. Over12upsblows

    Over12upsblows New Member

    Was thinking about that. My building has become a little militia and they are firing guys and girls every week. I will look into that tomorrow
  4. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    The contract does state that we cannot be disciplined/terminated based solely on technology; however, it does state that we can be fired for dishonesty. What you did was clearly dishonest, although I certainly don't blame you for not wanting to be delivering in a housing project in the dark. Hindsight is 20/20 but you should have contacted your mgt team for guidance rather than taking matters in to your own hands.
  5. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Or at least informed them that you felt unsafe going into this area and the packages would be missed
  6. Over12upsblows

    Over12upsblows New Member

    I know, totally dropped the ball on this one. I usually do everything perfect too.
  7. faded jeans

    faded jeans just a member

    Missed would have been the way to go. Next day you do whatever it takes to clear those stops in daylight.
  8. Over12upsblows

    Over12upsblows New Member

    I've heard of a few guys that have had to go to the panel. I'm really hoping this doesn't happen to me. wtf
  9. rocket man

    rocket man Well-Known Member

    you didnt drop nothing you did the right thing. get the grievance in and dont post anymore on this, you will be ok when you get back you do those stops after nda,s then go start your route you get paid by the hour
  10. stevetheupsguy

    stevetheupsguy sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ

    Missed, agreed! Reaarange your route so the Ghetto is on the earlier side when no one is, what am I saying, it's always the same way.
  11. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    You were terminated for falsification of records or dishonesty.
    GPS may be the way they determined you falsified the status of these stops but a call to the 5 consignees and their refuting that you attempted delivery and they were at home at the time of your recording these stops is what got you fired.

    I hope you get your job back and you learn from this lack of judgment.

    Next time, record them as missed for the real reason or deliver them.

    Honesty is always the best course ... don't do anything you feel you may have to lie about.

    Good luck.
  12. brown bomber

    brown bomber brown bomber

    I thought that Mr. Casey, the founder of this once proud company...indicated that our #1 asset was our employees........I'm sure he would never approve of putting an employee in harms the future just let Mgt. know of your intentions, if they have a problem invite the center manager to join you while delivering the "hood" after night fall
  13. rocket man

    rocket man Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  14. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Does Auntie Zeituni live there?
  15. 3 done 3 to go

    3 done 3 to go In control of my own destiny

    Its peak? No way they will fire you now. Back in 1 week. January you would be in trouble.
  16. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    for the record, i know of the center manager in question and have worked for them...just another snake that will slither to another building in the near future.
  17. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    Unless the center manager said he was fired off telemetics. It can't be assumed that he was. It is very easy to see on paper 5 stops in a row sheeted as not in. And at the times they were sheeted. 5 stops sheeted as NI in 4 minutes instead of 15 to 20 minutes would be a red flag. Plus if it were the last 5 stops of the day. Then it would be logical for someone to check and see where they were sheeted.

    That said, 4 stops sheeted in 4 minutes at the end of the day is consistent with his story. A compromise could be reached to do those stops in the daylight. But another question could be raised, why wasn't this a problem in the past?
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  18. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Some things about your case.

    First, the contract is clear. Acts of dishonesty are a cardinal infraction and sheeting 5 stops as NI 1 at a location other than while at the intended addresses is dishonest. The contract does not provide you any technological assistance as DAVE indicated. I have some questions for you in order to give you some assistance.

    1) is this your route, or are you covering a route? Have you done this route before if you are cover?
    2) When did you realize that these particular stops were in a hazardous area? Before you departed hub, on road, when it got dark?
    3) At what point did you telephone the center and ask for instructions on how to handle these stops? What was the instruction if you made that call?
    4) Is there a history of NOT ATTEMPTING these packages for these addresses in the past?
    5) What made you select NI-1 vs sheeting them as missed or emergency conditions?
    6) At what point did you notify the center team upon your return that you sheeted the packages as NI-1?

    These questions will help determine what kind of help you need. There is nothing in the contract that provides for "dangerous areas" to be service failed. We have our own sets of "projects" in So Cal, but there is an understanding with the company that drivers are NOT to be dispatched into those projects after dark. In our cases, once it gets dark, our drivers sheet any packages as "emergency conditions" and return the packages to the center.

    Dave stated that the contract says that we cant be disciplined solely on technology. This is not TRUE. There is NO language in the National Master Agreement or in ANY Rider or Addendum or MOA that states such a defense.

    What the National Master agreement states is this. " No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon information recieved from GPS or any successor system UNLESS (caveat) he/she engages in dishonesty (defined for the purposes of this paragraph as ANY ACT or OMISSION by an employee where he/she intends to DEFRAUD the company)

    Now, this says that you cannot be fired for a FIRST offense for information solely obtained through Technology with a CAVEAT that clears the way for the company to discharge you for dishonesty on a first offense.

    This is why my questions are important to establish. If you contacted the center and asked them for instructions for these stops, and they instructed you to not sheet them properly, then your off the hook, if there was or is a history of sheeting these stops as NI-1 after dark and you continued that practice, then your off the hook, if this is your route, and a routine that you practice at times over the year, then your off the hook.

    But, if none of that is true, and you made a unilateral decision to sheet the packages as NI-1 on your own and never notified the center team, then you would guilty of defrauding the company or falsifying delivery records. That would be a cardinal infraction and you would be walked out.

    If this is true, then its important to establish how dangerous these particular stops are. Some things come into play, If you are White, and this is a predominately Black or Hispanic area and you "feared" for your safety, then thats a solid defense.

    If there are shootings and thugs on the streets at night and you feared leaving the truck unattended and then returning to a group of persons around the truck, then thats a proper defense.

    These are circumstances that should be considered.

    If none of that is true, and you sheeted these stops as NI-1 , it can appear as if you intended to "smoke" the stops and that would be dishonest.

    Take some time and consider what i asked you. Answer the questions.

    From there, we will be able to give you some advice.

  19. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    "smoke" the stops

    This is what TOS has been smokin'
  20. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Is this a personal attack?